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Old 02-27-2003, 04:07 PM   #1
Olorin
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Sting Galadriel Fighting?

I read in a post that Galadriel single-handedly
Quote:
resisted the 3 assails from Dol Guldur and drove them back by herself, destroyed the fortress of Dol Guldur and kept Lothlorien a safe place when the most dangerous times of the Third Age were passing.
Obviously, this would of required combat, but how would Galadriel fight? With a bow or sword? I can't see it.

[ July 01, 2003: Message edited by: Olorin ]
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Old 02-27-2003, 04:08 PM   #2
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Sting

Seeing Galadriel with a sword would rock!

But, in honesty, I can see her having powerful magicks, being the oldest living elf in Middle Earth at the time, and being an elven queen, maybe she used magick?
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:35 PM   #3
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Somehow, I suspect that she had the Elves of Lothlorien at her disposal ... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 02-27-2003, 07:22 PM   #4
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Silmaril

I don't have any evidence to support this, but I think that Galadriel would own a bow or something of the sort, but not use anything but her magic and armies of Elves to fight, unless it came to be her last resort, which would probably not happen.
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Old 02-27-2003, 08:17 PM   #5
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Sting

Galadriel did not 'single-handedly' fight off the attacks from Dol Guldur.
JRRT writes:
"After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him. but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three times Lrien had been assailed from Dol Guldur. but besides the valour of the elven people of that land. the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lrien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."
LotR App. B.

She also was not the oldest living Elf in Middle-earth.
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Old 02-27-2003, 08:38 PM   #6
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Question

Nope, Cirdan was the oldest Elf in Middle-earth at the time. RIght?
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:15 PM   #7
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He was the oldest Elf that we know of. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:25 PM   #8
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Sting

"Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lrien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed." (LotR, App. B)

No need for a sword.
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Old 02-28-2003, 10:40 AM   #9
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Sting

She must have some mighty big biceps, then.
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Old 02-28-2003, 11:52 AM   #10
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Sting

Quote:
They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits,
Didn't Luthein do something similar Tol-in-Gaurhoth? (Minas Tirith)
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Old 02-28-2003, 12:01 PM   #11
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Sting

Quote:
They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed
Coming from a layman's POV (meaning that I have read only about one HoME book and the Silmarillion only once straight through) it sounds like Galadriel used some sort of "magic" in this. "Threw down its walls and laid bare its pits..." unless she DOES have really big biceps, the quote speaks of some sort of power--an a large one, at that, to throw down such a mighty fortress.

Although, it might just be that "Galadriel" is used as personification; like the statement "England fought France." The countries THEMSELVES did not engage in hand-to-hand combat, but their armies did. So, the "soldiers" of Galadriel, perhaps with her at the head or at least planning the attack, did away with Dol Guldur. The phrase right before the one noted, the one with Celeborn, speaks to that.

-'Vana

[ February 28, 2003: Message edited by: DaughterofVana ]
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:17 PM   #12
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Sting

right, cirdan was one of the first-born. galadrial was the daughter of fingolfin, or fingon
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:58 PM   #13
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Sting

Im gonna have to disagree. Remember that elvish women DID NOT go to war. They were concentrated in magicks and other things.

When Tolkien says that Galadirel threw down Dol Guldur, it was Galadriel HERSELF. It was not the army of Lorien. Remember that Tolkien reffered to Lorien's army, several times, as weak. Just go back to FOTR book, and when Galadriel speaks to Frodo, she says that Lorien does not stand against the enemy because of the arrows of the elves. It's a powerful country, the greatest elven country on ME (over Rivendell, because of the power that dwells there.

And that Power is Galadriel.

So, I don't think Galadriel needed a sword, a bow or anything. Elvish women dont fight. Royal elvish women DONT fight. And she had a greater power than any army in ME was able to compete with.

If Tolkien says that nobody could overcome her power unless Sauron himself showed up at the door of Caras Galadon, then Tolkien meant that not even the armies of Mordor, Dol Guldur, Isengard or any other country would be able to conquer Lorien because they would not be able to overcome Galadriel's power.
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Old 02-28-2003, 03:32 PM   #14
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Sting

Hmm... I've to disagree with that as well on some points.
Quote:
And that Power is Galadriel.
I think the power meant by Tolkien was not Galadriel herself but the Ring of Power she was wearing, Nenya, Ring of Adamant.
And the armies, which were spoken of in the quote: I think that would be the armies of Dol Guldur. If Sauron would've released all his power, when in Barad-dur at the time of the Battle at Minas Tirith's gates, at Lothlorien, the Forest there would fall. I think Tolkien meant the armies of Dol Guldur at that time.

Quote:
Royal elvish women DONT fight.
I believe they do, if need drives them. I don't think that the women of the Teleri didn't fight at the attack of Alqualonde.

And yes, Cirdan was the oldest elf of Middle-earth at that time, with his white beard [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

greetings,
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Old 02-28-2003, 03:56 PM   #15
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Tolkien

Quote:
galadrial was the daughter of fingolfin, or fingon
Finarfin, actually.

Quote:
If Sauron would've released all his power, when in Barad-dur at the time of the Battle at Minas Tirith's gates, at Lothlorien, the Forest there would fall.
I think that Galadriel could probably do some of the same types of things that Melian could do at Doriath. Obviously not to the same extent, but enough to cause confusion among an invading army. I think that it would have taken Sauron's physical presence to break through all that and allow his armies to pass through.
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Old 02-28-2003, 04:58 PM   #16
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Question

A lot of you are saying that she had some type of "power" is this power ever specified? If not, it would be pretty cool to imagine. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:40 PM   #17
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OK, let's go back to the original quotation:

Quote:
... and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lrien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.
So Celeborn led the army of Lorien in an attack against the demoralised forces of Dol Guldur - demoralised because the Shadow had passed, ie Sauron had been defeated.

They took Dol Guldur, and then Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits. So, the fortress was taken by the army of Lorien led by Celeborn before Galadriel did any throwing down or laying bare. Quite possibly she did use magic, or perhaps this was achieved physically by Lorein Elves under her direction. But either way, given that there was no longer anyone defending the fortress, it could be done at leisure.
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Old 03-01-2003, 12:13 AM   #18
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Sting

Nothing to do with how she did it (She is a Queen, Queen give commands not sword hits) but in Unfinished Tales they say she was strong in body and as good as any eldar in atlethics feats, which may mean she could fight...
 
Old 03-01-2003, 05:36 AM   #19
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Sting

"Laws and Customs" tells us that the Elvish Nissi (Female) were as strong in war as the Neri(Male) before they have a baby. So that reference may have pointed to Galadriel's strength before her having Celebrian.

[ March 04, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]
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Old 03-03-2003, 01:00 PM   #20
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Sting

Quote:
So, I don't think Galadriel needed a sword, a bow or anything. Elvish women dont fight. Royal elvish women DONT fight. And she had a greater power than any army in ME was able to compete with.
On the contrary, in the unfinished tales in one of the stories of Galadriel and Celeborn it tells of Galadriel fighting bitterly agianst Feanor in alqualonde. So Tolkien did intend that she could fight, also it was probable with a sword because at that time most of the Noldor had them and she had been living among the Noldor.
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Old 03-03-2003, 08:43 PM   #21
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Sting

first of all, i agree with what was said anout the Power of Galadriel, that was the The Ring. (Nneya) The elvish rings held the power to sustain the old might and magic of the elves. that is why, time never seems to pass in Lorien. And remember, The Creator made Elves first, to be in his image (familiar?). SO naturally Elves are best. OR were atleast. The power of Nenya brings out that magnificence, and theat was THE POWER.
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Old 03-03-2003, 10:10 PM   #22
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Sting

her power was independent of the power of the ring...And I do not remember saying that both Man and Elfs are meant to be great, to have them both weeknesss and powers...

Now, The Unfinished Tales Story, I do not remember that he say she actually have done any physical combat against Feanor but she fought with him, probally in the same way she fought with Sauron. A match of will and wits.
 
Old 03-03-2003, 11:38 PM   #23
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Sting

Perhaps the strength of Galadriel is as I could not help but observe as the Fellowship encountered her in Lothlorien. As Sam put it, she was hard, so hard you could break yourself on her. She laid bare the weaknesses of all who came before her. I could see Galadriel defeating her enemies in a way that has the enemy defeating itself. I am not sure I can explain it any better than that, but she seems to have a power to lay bare a soul in such a way that it breaks along its stress-line when it encounters her.

I cannot speak to whether she fought physically or not. I have not read the other histories. I do enjoy the thread, however! Thanks for your indulgence!

Cheers,
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Old 03-06-2003, 09:19 PM   #24
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Sting

Regarding to what extent Galadriel's power is due to her possessing Nenya, and to what extent it is Galadriel herself...

When Galadriel threw down the walls of Dol Guldor, recall that this was after the One Ring had been destroyed. Since the Three Rings lost their power at that point, Nenya was now just a pretty piece of jewelry. So however Galadriel threw down the walls (spells or building up her biceps :-), it was her herself.

Of course having Nenya didn't hurt. I think it was Galadriel who said to Frodo that the Ring gave power according to the stature of the bearer. Although this statement referred to the One Ring, it may apply to the others as well. In short, Galadriel was able to be so powerful with her ring, because she was already so powerful on her own.
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Old 03-07-2003, 09:16 AM   #25
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Sting

Reading the previous posts, something came to my mind.

Theres a BIG resemblance between Sauron's and Galadriel's power. Not in quantity (obviously, Sauron's was greater because he was a maia) but in terms of what it did.

Both of them read minds. Both of them searched for a man's weakness and laid it bare. Both of them got into their victim's mind and completely and utterly diminish them. Gandalf said that being a Sauron's captive was like having your mind puppeted and manipulated by a terrible Evil Mind. Sam, Boromir, etc., felt the same thing when they encountered Galadriel in Lothlorien: as if they had been deprived of all the barriers of their mind and were laid bare before her...

And, more to Galadriel's favour, she was able to see what Sauron thought, and with taht knowledge, she manipulated him (in some way).

The Lady of the Wood impresses me more and more...
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Old 03-07-2003, 10:19 AM   #26
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Sting

I'm surprised that nobody has seen fit to mention one of Galadriel's names from Unfinished Tales: 'Man Maiden'. Tolkien specifically says that back in the Blessed Realm she would compete with male Elves in athletic contests, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that she could and did fight when the need arose. Of course I think that her throwing down of the walls of Dol Guldor was more akin to Lthien's destruction of Sauron's fortress during her rescue of Beren. In fact it could be that Galadriel destroyed the ancient stronghold of evil using the power of song. Not even Disaster Area managed that trick!
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Old 03-07-2003, 11:13 AM   #27
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Sting

Using the power of song??

How's that possible
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