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Old 04-23-2002, 09:22 AM   #1
Nurumla
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Silmaril Elves and Orcs

I have a question. In the books it is said that the orcs were evil's imitation of the elves (like the ents and the trolls). Yet in the movie it says that the orcs are elves that had been corrupted. So my question is, which is correct? Or did I misunderstand the text of the books?

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Old 04-23-2002, 02:36 PM   #2
Mithadan
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The question you ask is less simple than it sounds. In the Silmarillion, it is stated that the race of Orcs likely came from the corruption of Elves by Melkor, the original dark lord, during the First Age (LoTR takes place at the end of the Third Age some 7000 years later). In later writings, Tolkien may have changed his mind and decided that Orcs were not corrupted Elves but rather: 1. corrupted men; 2. corrupted beasts; or 3. some combination of men, Elves, beasts and Maiar (to oversimplify - spirits).
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Old 04-23-2002, 02:54 PM   #3
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Way to go!!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Start off with the hard questions!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Something I always like to point out for no good reason is that the theory of orcs being bred from elves is presented as just that, a theory the elves made on the origin of orcs.

But on the other hand that is one of the things that Tolkien wrote so it has to be taken into consideration.

[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]
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Old 04-23-2002, 04:40 PM   #4
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Silmaril

Thanks for the clarification [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. I have not yet read the Silmarillion (in fact I’m only starting The Return Of the King), so I would not know of the reference you speak. I’ll check it out in due time.

Thank you Kuruharan, but that was bothering me so I had to ask! lol [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

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Old 04-23-2002, 06:57 PM   #5
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Silmaril

Throughout LOTR Tolkien does refer to the orcs as counterfeits of the Elves (just as the trolls were of the ents), but I do recall the part in the Silmarillion about the corruption of the dark elves during the first age (which was mentioned earlier). I imagine that that is where they got it from for the movie.
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Old 04-24-2002, 06:03 PM   #6
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(Without intending to change the subject), so what's the story behind the "dark" elves? I havn't read the Silm. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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Old 04-24-2002, 06:07 PM   #7
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(Without intending to change the subject), so what's the story behind the "dark" elves? I havn't read the Silm. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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