Tol-in-Gaurhoth XX: Wereorc I: The elves cannot hide themselves much longer.

[Nogrod]

I know, its a bit early for this kind of considerations, but as I don’t know, when people will have to vote, and when the sleep catches me, I’ll give you my thoughts at the moment (they will probably change, as people post more within last hours). I'll stay myself awake for awhile still, but probably can't be around at the closing-time anyway.

Celuien, Roa, Spawn, Jenny & Caranlodien I would not vote today. They are too good assets / reasonable players for us to lose – even though we can be sure, there is at least one wolf among them (that’s just numbers working in here). If some believable causes for suspicion arise, then I could reconsider.

Then we have this “I agree”-movement with either no reasons to back it or some clumsy or halfhearted backings (“as others have pointed out” etc.), consisting of Glirdan & Kitanna + and the “bandwagon” of Findëasëa Grendelien and Naria. This, I think, is no j’accuse –list, but something I will follow, if I live. Just looking at the “numerology” here too: at least one wolf here also...

Diamond has gone on her own today. Quite recklessly. Somewhat suspicious, to say the least.

Sleepy is again turning on that tune. I don’t like it, but can’t quite vote for him with this information, yet (means, could vote, if there is nothing better to go for).

Azaelia and Legolas iS we haven’t yet seen around...

I agree with Caranlodien, concerning the benefit of doubt to Grendelien and Findëasëa. To begin with.

Anyhow. I also agree with those, that demand at least a fragmentary theory or somehow based suspicion to vote.

I hope, we can come up with one before the day closes...

[Farael]

We interrupt your game to bring you a fantabulous announcement!!

We are the owners of the Barrow Downs and because of an error on a shipment, we are currently over-stocked with wraiths!!! That is right, we have more wraiths than what we can handle so we are practically giving them away!!!

Wraiths have many uses, ask them to scare your friends away, scare your girlfriend so that you can save her or have a week long discussion about who exactly is that Tom Bombadill fellow!!!

Just call 1-800-Oh-My-Wraith and you can get two wraiths for the price of one!! just 1-800-Oh-My-Wraith.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I'd like to announce that the deadline is 6PM Central Time, 12 AM GMT.

And now, back to the game!!

[Sleepy Ranger]

Ahem, since people want me active, active I shall be. Its Day 1, folks, I don't like Day 1. Recent games I've been facing death on Day 1/Night 1 too often. And yes Spawn serious business, you do realize I could've been busy, right? Had a couple of friends over so I was sorta tied up the entire day but now I'm all yours. And its the norm for all my games, I always state that I shall make a random/safe vote, its been my first post in all games for a while.

Now then, I promise that I shall be a good and productive apple barrel that will aid in capturing those nasty orcses if I'm allowed to survive the Day/Night. I promise!

Now then, remember time differences, its late here but I'll stay up for a while longer and vote before I leave. I'm kinda beat and have some work to see to so I won't be able to do all I want to with the game but I promise to be more active tommorrow.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I need to vote now, so without further analysis, I cast my vote for

++ROA_AOIFE

Best of luck to the rest of you.

[Celuien]

++DIAMOND18

She's seemed too ready to be agreeable at the beginning of the day and showed a little too much chit-chat. Others have pointed out the other things that disturbed me about her.

I have to hurry, so no time to further analyse. I'll just say that Nogrod, Caran, Spawn, Kitanna, and Caran seem particularly unsuspicious to me at this time. Reasons given later, if I make it back in time, or toMORROW.

I want to give Grendelien, Findëasëa and Legolas (where is she?? ) a chance to let any newness wear off before I seriously suspect them.

Glirdan may bear watching.

I'll have to come back to think about Roa, Sleepy and Naria.

I'd like to hear from Zali soon.

[Roa_Aoife]

I don't know how much longer I can be around, so I'm going to vote now.

Diamond and Glirdan have my attention right now. Diamond's lack of content in her many posts looks particulary suspicious; however, I don't think an orc would be so reckless right off the bat. Glirdan on the other hadn't seems overly cautious. All he has really managed to do is restate everyone else's opinion, and I know he is capable of better thought than that. With only a few hours left before close, (I'm not sure how many- the timezones posted have me very confused) I doubt that something more suspicious will come along.

++Glirdan

[JennyHallu]

I'm here, but I'm not going to vote for a while.

Looking most suspicious to me are:

Nogrod for his own reasoning:

Anyone fighting against a good idea is an orc!

Diamond for general hyperness.

Sleepy. I don't like random votes at all, and don't think there's any place for them. Even on a first day, someone is going to stand out, at least a little.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Sleepy. I don't like random votes at all, and don't think there's any place for them. Even on a first day, someone is going to stand out, at least a little.

Jolly Good! I respect your opinion and personally have nothing against random or non-random votes on Day 1 but then again I have little against anything on Day 1. But yeah, for some reason I always suspect anyone who tries to close out the other option. If this was Day 3 or later then yes a random vote would've been weird to say the least even on Day 2 a random vote wouldn't be normal but I see no reason for anyone to say that a random vote isn't acceptable on Day 1. Don't mind my random rant but I dis-like it when people glorify or put down random votes.

In my opinion, Day 1 let people have their way. And yes, this does mean you're free to whatever theorizing you wish.

++JennyHallu

Solely for that comment, yes, I know that my vote choice (and reason) will be dis-liked by most people but I don't see JennyHallu being voted off so yeah...

[Glirdan]

Glirdan on the other hadn't seems overly cautious. All he has really managed to do is restate everyone else's opinion, and I know he is capable of better thought than that.(Nogrod)

All I have to say is that I'm having things going on in RL so I can't do as much as I would like to this game. Also, it's a Day 1 and I don't really have much to go on. That's my reasoning. I'm also going to cast a completely random vote for the first name that pops into my head which is

++Sleepy Ranger

Good day.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Apologies, all. School= And I'd like to prefeace this with the caution that I am a little bit ill, so if what I say doesn't make sense, that would most likely be why. Just a heads-up.

As to the dream issue brought up back on page 1, I think that it is a matter of the poster's discretion...I would caution against leaving hints behind that are too obvious, though, lest you become the next victim. However, some indication ought to be given so that if you've recieved the dream and are inadvertantly killed the next night or lynched, it would be helpful to have some message to fall back on.

There is more (hooray! for analysis!) coming soon, but I have just been called to supper (for the second time) by a rather insistant parental unit. So I will be back.

Edit: Cross posted with Glirdan...

[Nogrod]

EDIT: Removed... because of a "quote" command using -mistake.

Now as a post #62
(The earlier vote-count is lost already - that shouldn't be a major concerns, as there was just the count))

Sorry.

[JennyHallu]

Yeah, and I think it's spread enough. I need to vote now, and I'm going to vote for

++Diamond18

Just not enough substance.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Farael

Also, I'd like to announce that the deadline is 6PM Central Time, 12 AM GMT.

Okay, just clearing this up- due to Day-light Savings Time, Central time is now at -5 GMT, so 6 pm CT is 11pm GMT.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Okay, just clearing this up- due to Day-light Savings Time, Central time is now at -5 GMT, so 6 pm CT is 11pm GMT.

If it is so, it would be very interesting to know, which one of those times does count! So are we ending the day at 6PM CT (which is 11PM GMT) or at 12PM GMT (which is 7PM CT)?

In short: have got an hour or two left today, as it is now coming 10PM GMT (check the reference from the time this one is posted)?

[Findëasëa]

++Glirdan

His posts had very little substance. He was also quick to choose a random vote and explain away his lack of posts.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Findëasëa

++Glirdan

His posts had very little substance. He was also quick to choose a random vote and explain away his lack of posts.

Please bold your vote!

Farael! I think you should count this anyway...

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Okay, just clearing this up- due to Day-light Savings Time, Central time is now at -5 GMT, so 6 pm CT is 11pm GMT.

Yikes!! Forgot about Day-light Savings Time..... ok, today will end 7CT or 12 GMT, just in case anyone made plans otherwise.... then we'll go to 6 CT which will be 11 GMT.

And by the way, Roa and Nogrod shall die tonight, becasue the mod is never wrong and those who prove him wrong are heretics

++++Roa
++++Nogrod
(no, my votes don't count, just ignore it)

Edit

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Farael! I think you should count this anyway...

Don't worry, I can do such choices myself I messed up the timezones but other than that I'm not doing so bad....

[Nogrod]

Sorry: I messed around quite a bit!

I thought of updating the vote-list and then took it with the "quote" and not just painted it! Now my update is, where my earlier vote-count was! (and the earlier has gone away) I'll take it off, and repost the current one here.

Won't be making that mistake again!

Originally Posted by Nogrod
Farael! I think you should count this anyway...

Don't worry, I can do such choices myself I messed up the timezones but other than that I'm not doing so bad....

I trust you in all you do!

But if we want to be clear about the situation, I hope we can count on that approval...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

As promised... The Analysis... Within the categories, there is no particular order.

Nogrod: He seems normal enough. Nothing that he's been saying is sending up any red flags.

Celuien: Logically pointed out that revealing dreams is going to get us "picked off one by one".

Diamond: Posts are chatty, cheerful, and in character...pretty much standard procedure for the first day...It wouldn't be a problem except that the majority of them are that way. I just don't see much substance. I'm willing to let it slide for now, being, as it is, the first day. It does earn her a place on the "watch me" list.

Glirdan: Is busy in RL, makes a random vote. I'm putting him on my "watch list", because as I said before, I really don't like random votes.

Caranlondien: Suggests that dreamers come straight out, which is flawed because it would be very easy for an Orc to have a dream about an innocent and then point them out as an orc. I like her later assesment that so little happens on day ones just because we all sit around saying that nothing can happen.

Roa_Aoife: I don't like the suggestion that a random vote is better than no vote at all. The truth is that neither is a good option, and I would personally prefer to abstain from voting than to make a random vote.

Kitanna: First post is strong and to the point. She makes some good points, and for now, I am not worried about her.

Findeasea: Has posted too little to really register on the radar for me. I'm content to wait, though I'd like to hear more from her as time goes by.

Grendelien: See above

Naria: And...wow. Another see above.

JennyHallu: Is logical and tries to move discussion along.

Sleepy Ranger: Without participating in the discussion at all, he can proclaim from his first post that his vote will most likely be random or safe. It sends up a flag for me. To just expect your vote to be random is to overlook some things that could possibly be staring you right in the face. So he goes on the Watch Me! list.

Dancing Spawn: Looks innocent and logical to me, at least for now.

Farael: Appearing from beyond the grave to make a (quite funny) post of nonsense on the subject of wraiths... Suspicious. Just kidding.

Legolas in Spandex: Hasn't shown up yet. Where are you?

The following lists may be completely wrong, but hey, I have to start somewhere. The fact that only three people wound up in my watch me! category may or may not be suspicious. I won't be so bold as to claim that they are orcs as of yet, but I think that they bear watching, at any rate.

Leaning towards Innocent.
Me
Dancing Spawn


Watch Me!
Diamond
Sleepy
Glirdan


Hasn't shown up:
Legolas in Spandex


Don't know.
Caranlondien
Nogrod
Grendelien
Findëasëa
Celuien
Glirdan
Naria
Roa_Aoife
Kitanna
Jenny

[Nogrod]

After my being an idiot, here's the current vote, with my comments...

An update, considering Findëasëa's vote legal, due to her inexperience. I guess we all agree (well Glirdan possibly not, but... ) that interpretation?

Roa 1 (Spawn I)
Diamond 2 (Celuien II, Jenny VI)
Glirdan 2 (Roa III, Findëasëa VII)
Jenny 1 (Sleepy IV)
Sleepy 1 (Glirdan V)

Even though I have my suspicions on Diamond and Glirdy: they have played quite unsubstantially, comparing to their normal behaviour, and Diamond maybe somewhat weirdly, but I still just don't quite feel at home with this one. Well, who should there be in front? I don't know...

Happily we have some time left.

I would very much like to hear something from Diamond.

[Kitanna]

The people who have been voted for are pretty spread out it looks like.
Roa~ What Spawn said against Roa made sense, but it's not enough for me to vote for her myself.
Diamond~ Her behavior has been noted as odd today. She stated earlier she is pretty much enjoying her in character oppurtunites of day one. For today I'm going to just let that slide, but if it continues into tomorrow...
Glirdan~ Don't really have an opinion on him. I don't find him overly suspicious in any way.
Jenny~ Same as Glirdan.
Sleepy~ I'm annoyed by Sleepy's vote for Jenny. He stated he was going to vote randomly and Jenny voiced her opinion about it. A rather childish way to vote. Sleepy knew his vote was going to meet with disapproval, he has been pleading for us to let him stay alive. It would seem like far too wreckless a thing for someone to do, but past experiences have taught us wreckless actions mean little when it comes to werecreatures. Tempted to vote for him...

++ Sleepy Ranger

I don't even care if my reasons are bad. The plea for life (for lack of a better phrase) on Day one, before any suspicions had been cast on him is too much for me. It would appear to be foolish for a wereorc, but nothing ever seems to be too foolish in these games.

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Azaelia

Caranlondien: Suggests that dreamers come straight out, which is flawed because it would be very easy for an Orc to have a dream about an innocent and then point them out as an orc. I like her later assesment that so little happens on day ones just because we all sit around saying that nothing can happen.

I didn't suggest that dreamers come straight out; I said that the suggestion that dreamers come straight out was flawed... I think that's what you meant to say?

I'm torn about my vote. My gut instinct is for Diamond18 over Sleepy, because she's been talkative without saying much of substance. But that's really very little to go on... however, since it's Day 1 and there's no voting record to go by (and I'm not sure I'll be able to get back before time's up), I'll have to go with my gut.

++Diamond18

[Diamond18]

Is the game ending in 6 minutes or an hour? Good god, I have come in very late (got very screwed up about the time) and I don't know if I have to quickly vote, which I don't want to do since I haven't had a chance to read all the posts. Please say I have an hour.

[Farael]

You do have another hour, read above

Why do I keep on talking in my own game? I love it though, I miss playing WW.... maybe I should join this game =P I bet you villagers would love that.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Caranlondien you should've voted for me.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Azaelia of Willowbottom

Caranlondien: Suggests that dreamers come straight out, which is flawed because it would be very easy for an Orc to have a dream about an innocent and then point them out as an orc.

Kitanna: First post is strong and to the point. She makes some good points, and for now, I am not worried about her.

I wouldn't like to bring this to the fore again, but well. I just feel I have to (remember Jenny's point on me: fighting against a good idea...)

Anyone bored with the topic should run over this message. It is not intended as a general discussion topic at this hour.
So please see this point you make on Caranlodien (probably isn't her point, but mine, but anyhow, that's not the point, the argument is).

Yes, it would be easy for an orc to have a dream about an innocent and then to point her/him as an orc. But what then? We lynch an innocent and discover the innocence. Do you think, we will have any trouble finding the one to lynch the next day, as this deceiving has been revealed by the death of an innocent? The exchange ratio of 1:1 (villager vs. wolf) is more than good!

And to Kitanna's points. F.ex. Should the shaman reveal a dream s/he has gotten to her/himself? Of course not! That would be the stupidest thing to do! Or the second point about a villager having a dream about an orc, revealing it, and then be spared by the wolfs - and lynched the day after! Hello! If someone reveals an orc dream, then that orc will be lynched and we are one point nearer to the goal! Why should we run lynching someone, who has given us an orc?

The only problem here I see is an orc betraying a fellow orc, and thus achieving credibility by helping in the lynch of an orc. But I don't see, why we should be running to declare all the dreamers innocent? The dreamed-of's are innocent (or wolves, but known one's), not the dreamers.

But as I said much earlier, there are other problems in this plan (#34), and I don't support it any more!

Let's get back to today's bussiness... Just had to defend an idea from wrong accusations.

[Celuien]

Another hour? Nice. I thought I would have a chance to come back.

Originally Posted by Sleepy

Caranlondien you should've voted for me.

Rather strange.

I wonder. Should I regret my vote for Diamond?

At the same time, it's an awfully brazen thing for an orc to say.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Rather strange.

I wonder. Should I regret my vote for Diamond?

At the same time, it's an awfully brazen thing for an orc to say.

Oh me, I'm just strange, contradictory and weird in general. Ok time for an obnoxious confession, I've been trying to get myself lynched today. Why? Maybe I'll tell you later but anyway it seems I won't be getting lynched today... Lets see what happens. *Eats an apple.* Theres plenty if anyone wants one.

[Roa_Aoife]

Don't mind him- he's been killed either on Day 1 or Night 1 of the past few games he's been in, and he's trying to go for a record.

...Dork...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Sleepy Ranger

Oh me, I'm just strange, contradictory and weird in general. Ok time for an obnoxious confession, I've been trying to get myself lynched today. Why? Maybe I'll tell you later but anyway it seems I won't be getting lynched today... Lets see what happens. *Eats an apple.* Theres plenty if anyone wants one.

You really put us, who have not voted yet (six with my count), into a very weird situation Sleepy! You are playing now with quite high stakes... and I'm not sure, whether it is wise for the village, or for you.

As I go through the thread, I find myself in trouble concerning who to vote for, and then you come and just offer us every reason to lynch you! Maybe you really want to get out of the game, or then are a cunning wolf - more cunning than in the last game? You puzzle me...

If you are innocent, and we lynch you, its just a needless death - and we are one down...

EDIT: X-posted with Roa - and kind of see her point, and that would be weird...

[Diamond18]

Okay. Good.

Alright, I'm going to apologize in advance for this post, because I just spent the last 20 minutes having a panic attack because as soon as I made my post, the 'Downs stopped responding, and then other things started going wonky on my computer, and I was literally swearing like a sailor at it and running around in circles screaming. Well okay, not the circles part. But my hands did start to shake, which makes me think I'm far too invested in this. I'll leave the disturbing self-analysis for another time, however.

Okay, a quick and panicked review of the posts reveals that I've come under a lot of suspicion for my in character comments early in the day. This, I find absurd. It's Day 1, and what's more it was early in Day 1 when I made my posts. I don't see the point of picking characterizations if actually putting them to use is "nonsense" and "unsubstantial" and worthy of getting lynched. Excuse me for trying to have a little fun in this game, instead of pretending to find something in nothing. I have to admit I find it a little funny watching people analyze little nothing posts, saying that they hate Day 1 because there's nothing to go on, then jumping on people for no apparent reason. I think a little lightening up is in order. The times when werecreatures have been successfully lynched on Day 1 are probably more luck than anything, or the work of a lucky Seer who had a successful first night dream. So you won't see me sitting around going, "S/he posted mostly in character the first day, how worthless, let's lynch!" Tomorrow I'll actually try to find meaning in all this. But what I see now is mostly villagers casting about in the dark, and to lynch someone because she was trying to enjoy the game when there was nothing else really to do is just silly.

I would be more inclined to vote for people who didn't show up at all, or posted very short posts that were neither in character nor having a theory of their own. I was at least getting something out of the game.

That all said, I'm going to have to vote for Glirdan if I want to save my own butt. Whether he's innocent or guilty I have no idea, but it seems the way the votes have gone that's my wisest choice.

+ + Glirdan

Anyway, excuse the somewhat upset tone of this post, because I'm still worked up into a frenzy over my computer trying to drive me insane and was sure for a few minutes there that I had completely missed the deadline.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Sleepy Ranger

Oh me, I'm just strange, contradictory and weird in general. Ok time for an obnoxious confession, I've been trying to get myself lynched today. Why? Maybe I'll tell you later but anyway it seems I won't be getting lynched today... Lets see what happens. *Eats an apple.* Theres plenty if anyone wants one.

I see. Attempted Nilp impersonation. But you should have voted for yourself instead of Jenny to do that properly. Still doesn't get you off the hook as far as I'm concerned.

At any rate, Jenny expressed suspicion of Nogrod here. I tend to believe in his innocence because of the discussion over his plan to reveal dreams. I disagree with the plan, and still think that it would benefit the orcs. BUT, if Nogrod were an orc, I would have expected him to back off as soon as potential orc benefits were pointed out. Instead, he defended the idea while admitting flaws, which seems to indicate genuine motivation rather than orcish scheming. Besides, he's generally been well-reasoned and informative today.

[Nogrod]

Diamond!

It's so nice to see you back as your usual self! My suspicions are dropped immediately... for the time being, of course.

[Roa_Aoife]

Diamond!

It's so nice to see you back as your usual self! My suspicions are dropped immediately... for the time being, of course.

She may not last the day Nogrod. I believe she's in the lead for votes.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Attempted Nilp impersonation? I have no idea what you're talking about... all I'm doing is being myself... >_>

Anywho, I'm not trying to get off the hook, I'm trying to get lynched and if I don't get lynched on Day 1 or killed during Night 1, I'll behave and actually play properly...

So anyway,
Dear Were-Orcs,
Kindly kill me during Night 1. Thank you- Barrel Of Apples.

Oh and by the way, I believe Diamond's alright, she has the right mind-set in my opinion. *Tosses an apple at Diamond.*

[Roa_Aoife]

Roa 1 (Spawn I)
Diamond 3 (Celuien II, Jenny VI, Caran IX)
Glirdan 3 (Roa III, Findëasëa VII, Diamond X)
Jenny 1 (Sleepy IV)
Sleepy 2 (Glirdan V, Kitanna VIII)

Diamond reached 3 first, so she's currently the one slated for death.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Sleepy Ranger

Attempted Nilp impersonation? I have no idea what you're talking about... all I'm doing is being myself... >_>

Anywho, I'm not trying to get off the hook, I'm trying to get lynched and if I don't get lynched on Day 1 or killed during Night 1, I'll behave and actually play properly...

Oh dear, we have another crazed Elf on our hands. What's in those apples?

I'm starting to feel bad about voting for Diamond. Upset tone of post completely understandable.

[Nogrod]

If I have this right, the leading candidates are:

Diamond 3
Glirdan 3
Sleepy 2

Sleepy seems to wish to die, but that may not be wise, because he might be innocent anyhow.

Glirdan has not been so bad, as his numbers tell him to have been.

Diamond I feel innocent - was unhappy with her lead in votes all the time - even though wondered myself her way of playing at the beginning...

Let's focus now, the rest of us!

Grendelien?
Zali?
Naria?
Legolas iS? (where are you???)

EDIT: X-posted with Roa & Celuien

[Roa_Aoife]

With 10 minutes left in the day, Nogrod had better get his vote in.

Edit: As well as Grendelien, Zali, Naria, and Legolas iS

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Legolas iS? (where are you???)

She's online now, viewing the Mirth Forum at last check. I posted on the TiG thread to see if I could get her to switch to invisible mode and stop in before the deadline...