Werewolf XXXII: The Lost Age

[The Saucepan Man]

Ah, Noggin, my friend. Seeking to make a case against me from nothing, are you? Then again, I have seen you do this as an innocent (and once, not so long ago, when I was hiding a guilty secret). That’s the problem with you. You would play the same way whether guilty or innocent. But know you this, my friend. I am innocent. And, if you are too, you would do well to trust my words.

For the record, I was not suggesting that we should state our votes early. I was merely pointing out that it might be better for us if we were not to leave it until the very last minute …

And don’t fret, Di. I, for one, do not currently have you high on my list of suspects. I actually think that your obstinance over revealing your vote speaks in your favour. When I made my suggestion, I was thinking it unlikely that a Vampire would disagree with it.

And now something curious.

As I understand her, Kitanna has said that she did not vote yesterDay. Which leaves the “voting record” looking like this:

Di: Legate (Legate 1)
Celuien: Kitanna (Kitanna 1, Legate 1)
Menel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 1, Legate 1)
Sixth: Gil (Kitanna 1, Rikae 1, Gil 1, Legate 1)
Gil: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Legate 1)
Legate: Sixth (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Legate 1)
Rune: Menel (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 1, Legate 1)
Rikae: Menel (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 1)
Boro: Legate (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2)
Lomiella: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 1)
Eomer: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 2)
Roa: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 3)
Aganzir: Celuien (Kitanna 1, Rikae 2, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 4)
Brinniel: Rikae (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 2, Celuien 4)
Nogrod: Legate (Kitanna 1, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 3, Celuien 4)
SPM: Kitanna (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 3, Celuien 4)
Mac: Legate (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 4, Celuien 4)
Sleepy: Rune (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 4, Celuien 4, Rune 1)
Xyzzy: Lomiella (Kitanna 2, Rikae 3, Gil 1, Sixth 1, Menel 2, Legate 4, Celuien 4, Rune 1, Lomiella 1)

No vote: Durelin, Shasta, Kitanna
No vote stated: Glirdy

Votes stated toDay are in italics, and I have put Di’s vote where she claimed it, chronologically.

I must admit that I had Kitanna down for the fifth Celuien vote. But she claims not to have voted. And my suspicion is that (whether he be a Vampire or not) Glirdy did not vote. So where did the fifth Celuien vote come from? And why have they lied (assuming that I am right about Glirdy)? Might it possibly be the Shade?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

I'm getting mixed emotions right now.. alot of "I love the new gil, but i think i might lynch him off" it makes me feel that no matter what i do, people always want to lynch me....

Don't take it that personally if someone says he disagrees with your points... and you're making some perfectly legitimate points as well... so at least I will not vote for you... toDay at least.

And this brings me to the subject. How about we look at those who fly under everyone's radar right now? There will be at least one vampire, possibly two in there. Yes I know I've said that at least one vampire is an active or influential one but that one can be caught later as that one needs to sping her/his web all the way and it will have faults in it anyhow in the end. And just shooting the active people would maim the game.

So how about paying more attention to Glirdan, Sleepy, Durelin, Diamond, Aganzir, Xyzzy, The Sixth... There are enough of these people that fly under the radar to hide a vampire or two within them.

If we wish to win, we should test each other and on the the basis of that either trust or distrust each other. Those who do not partake in the effort are people we can't trust and the sooner we get rid of those the better.

I do not mean that let's lynch all those who post little but let's concentrate our efforts to that direction for a while too. I mean why do people think as a given fact that those who post a lot are the vampires? That's an absurd inference!

It's easy to suspect people who post a lot and are involved. So any wise Vampire would hunker down...

Well, just a suggestion.

I'll try to make something of it after Lommy has taken her turn with the PC.

Edit: X'd with Spm...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta smiled sheepishly.

"Um. This forum is different than the other forums I play on, where you just have to state your vote on the thread... could someone explain just how to vote for me? I feel like an idiot, but what can you do."

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nog

I do not mean that let's lynch all those who post little but let's concentrate our efforts to that direction for a while too.

Ah, it was only a matter of time ...

The problem with those that you have listed is that there is (with the exception of Di, in my view) so little to go on.

Originally Posted by Nog, again

I mean why do people think as a given fact that those who post a lot are the vampires? That's an absurd inference!

Because sometimes they are ...

Originally Posted by Shasta

This forum is different than the other forums I play on, where you just have to state your vote on the thread... could someone explain just how to vote for me?

Not so different. Normally, that is how games are played here. This is new territory for all of us. You vote by sending your vote either by e-mail to the g-mail address that Volo gave or by Private Message here on the forum to Volo and Kath. But be sure to post it here as well.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta nodded. "I see. Well, in that case, I'll just Vote: Gil then, and off to send it."

[Thinlómien]

I must say I'm growing uneasy about Nogrod.

Just look at his few latest posts. He is throwing suspicion at all directions, accusing both loud people (like SPM) and silent people (those he mentions in his newest post).

Besides, I don't like his way of throwing Diamond, Durelin, Aganzir, Sixth, Xyzzy, Glirdy and Sleepy to the same category of people who he seemingly sees as non-contributors. While all these people have been relatively silent/inactive, I think it's not very wise from an innocent to throw them all to the same category.

In my opinion, while Aganzir, Diamond, Durelin and Sixth have been quite silent, they all have made some good points and contributed to the game. I see no point in accusing these people only based on their quietness, especially as there are still many hours till the deathline. (This does however not mean I wouldn't like to hear more of these people - on the contrary. Speak up! I know you're all smart people that could have something more to say!)

Nevertheless, I share Nogrod's concern over Xyzzy and especially Glirdan and Sleepy. If these guys are vampires, we're never going to catch them, since they are all too silent: none of them has said almost anything (with the slight exception of Xyzzy). Please, please guys, remember you're promised to devote some time to this game!

I wonder if there's any rule of removing people who do not post or vote...?

Lomiella yawns. "If you guys don't mind, I'll take a nap. See you when I wake up." She casts a sweet smile at her fellows and goes to find an unoccupied bed.

edit:xed with Shasta and Saucer

[The Saucepan Man]

Oh, and before I forget. I believe it was Menel who suggested that we might think a bit more about the Lynche Seer. There are my thoughts, mostly obvious, but worth considering nevertheless.

We should bear in mind that the Lynch Seer might be a Vampire although, in those circumstances, he or she is only likely to post a riddle if the lynchee is a fellow Vampire (and, even then, it would be very risky for them). It is possible, if the lynchee is innocent, that a Vampiric Lynch Seer might post a riddle if he or she is sufficiently certain that the lynchee will name an innocent. However, I think that a Lynch Seer who posts a riddle will, in most cases, be innocent.

It follows that it will be dangerous for a Lynch Seer to post the riddle (and this will be exacerbated given our agreed approach to post our votes, since these may be compared to the Lych Seer‘s figures the next Day, if the Lynch Seer survives the Night). For those of us who are ordos, however, this should not be a problem.

Obviously, an innocent Lynch Seer should only post the riddle if they are relatively confident that the lynchee is not a Vampire. Similarly, the lynchee whose riddle is posted, if innocent, should think carefully before naming a victim to take with them.

[The Saucepan Man]

Um, is it just me or do these statements seem somewhat contradictory:

Originally Posted by Shasta

It's possible that she just made a mistake, but I thought the rules were pretty clear.

(emphasis added)

Originally Posted by Shasta

... could someone explain just how to vote for me?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ooc: Be nice to me, I'm migraine-y and anxious about prom tomorrow.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Be nice to me, I'm migraine-y and anxious about prom tomorrow.

Oh well, in that case ...

Er, no. I am afraid that you are on my suspect list, Shaz.

*Wanders off to search some more buildings*

[Durelin]

Agh, I am an under-the-radar-flyer, I know. I really don't mean to be. I tend to go unnoticed, even when I expect people to find me horribly suspicious looking...or at least annoying enough to lynch.

Sorry about the first post - yes, in character. I've lately begun to enjoy RPing a total jerk, so I must say the love spilled over into this game. Of course I never keep up the in-character-ness for long, so no worries. Though I can't promise I won't be nasty. Just not that nasty. Or at least not so consistently.

Lommy - Slightly unpleasant?! That's all? Guess I should've tried harder.

Nice work, SPM...the votes aren't adding up already? The Shade might well be playing with our heads already. I think the Shade is a good mix of Cobbler and Werebear...lovely combination. I realized after that first post I made that my character really fit that role...there are other reasons I'm kinda sad I didn't get it, though...

I don't know if Shade-hunting is our concern right now. With no buddies and no goal except to stay alive, what trail can they leave?

At this point, I agree with you, Nogrod, about looking at the under the radar peoples. And not just because they have fewer posts I have to look through...no, of course not preciousss...nasties makes lieses abouts us.....

Di feels right to me. I guess because I understand where she's coming from. As you can see from my own playing right now, when I lack time, I am a completely worthless player. Aganzir has contributed and seems "genuine-ish" to me. I don't really know about the others, except for xyzzy. He worries me, both for his earlier comment and his flying-under-radarness. I need to look at his posts more....

Though, I just realized...how do we know there should have been 5 votes for Celuien? I think there's a vampire among the Legate voters...though anyone could be lying. Or, Legate and Cel could have been tied, but tie goes to whoever gets the most votes first, and it happened to be Cel (if the votes went in a similar order to how SPM has them listed that would seem likely). But hmm...I'm going to look specifically at who said they voted for Legate....

Di, Boro, Nogrod, Mac. What an interesting bunch...I need to read over their posts more. For now I think Di to be the most likely innocent of those bunch, particularly because she did not state her vote until toDay. I think as a vampire she would have at least said something about who she was voting for yesterDay (even if she was short on time), and I really don't think she would have said Legate toDay if she was lying...she could have stated something much safer, I think....

No, I'm not proofreading that^^. Deal.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ooc: I think at this point everyone's on everyone else's suspect list, Espiem. xD

[Durelin]

Quite, Shasta...and in my opinion that's the only time things are really fun.

[Nogrod]

I hadn't quite made a closer look at you Lommy before this - okay, 23 people to begin with - but this looks pretty bad. So you kind of wish to say that I'm suspicious because I make a suggestion of looking at another direction for a while but you still manage to pick a few from my list to look after as well...

Your last post doesn't only make me wary about you but of your list as well (those you wish to give the credit). Please remember what I said:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So how about paying more attention to Glirdan, Sleepy, Durelin, Diamond, Aganzir, Xyzzy, The Sixth... There are enough of these people that fly under the radar to hide a vampire or two within them.
---
I do not mean that let's lynch all those who post little but let's concentrate our efforts to that direction for a while too. I mean why do people think as a given fact that those who post a lot are the vampires? That's an absurd inference!

And you jumped on to say that I'm suspicious on these bases? So someone is suspicious if he doesn't stick with those who are suspected normally by the most people? And just to remind you all, the vampires (wolves) will love to leave the unposting / unvoting people live as their cause is tremendously aided by them. We villagers need to get rid of them as the vampires will not do it and thence those who do not post willl make an ever increasing threat to us as the game goes on. I have seen too many games this far to know this.

So just get rational you people!

Lying for ten Days in a row is a pretty hard work and probably the one doing it will make a mistake a moment or another. That one will get caught if there are independent players enough alive as the one fails.

So the greatest threat to us are those people we can't say anything about (those who do not post or who play safely). With them it's just like tossing a coin. In the endgame these people become terrifying. So as long as we have the chances, let's lynch them.

I know some of you say that I'm being brutal or vampirish. That's your right to think. But just give this another thought. I've seen games where the silents have won the game with their demonical ends. And in regards of those vocal players we tend to lynch more often than not we kill an innocent who would have been an asset to us.

Too frequently an innocent stands up against an innocent with pure intentions and one of them gets killed. That happens a bit too often.

The wolves smirk in the darkness...

And anyhow - I've said this a thousand times but feel I need to make this point again - a baddie does well to stay out of any controversy. It's the innocents who try to meddle with the things and to affect the game...

So just think again. Please.

---
Edit X'd with a a few and deleted a part that referred to Lommy's posting I thought was out of place in regards to the post as a whole....

[The Saucepan Man]

*Esspiem returns unseen and sneaks to a corner, where he busies himself unbundling from his great black cloak the various items that he has snaffled on his reconnaissance. For a short while, he is occupied in examining various small phials, before nodding his head and furtively dipping a small dagger into one of them. Of course, no one notices all this () and mometarily he appears from nowhere and joins the group by the fire.*

Originally Posted by Shasta

I think at this point everyone's on everyone else's suspect list, Espiem.

Then I shall let you know where I stand with everyone at the moment.

Gil: I hesitate to halt the voice that he has so recently found. He does have some good points from time to time. And his instincts have been known to be good in the past. I doubt that I’ll vote for him toDay unless something changes radically.

Rikae: A Vampire, surely. Accusing people based on banter, then very defensive about it. Throwing accusations around with little to back them. And I just don’t buy her expanation of that slip.

Boro: I am seeing nothing about him to worry me. Nevertheless, I do not underestimate him by any means.

Nogrod: Nogrod has done all the usual Nogrod things. The trinagulation theory. The concern about the quiet ones. The comments on sportsmanship. And yet there is something about his manner that I don’t like. He seems more … sneaky … than usual. Seems to be busying himself casting aspersions against everyone who suspects him. And then there’s that stoking of the Celuien bandwagon and voting for Legate thing yesterDay.

Eomer: I am by no means taking his innocence for granted as, like Boro, he should certainly not be underestimated. But I see nothing to worry me thus far, and his vote for Celuien speaks in his favour.

Lomiella: Another Celuien voter. Apart from her blind spot on Rikae, I see nothing to concern me about her.

Legate: Difficult to get a handle on. I understand what people are saying about his “reasonableness”, but I get the feeling that that’s the way he is, wherever his loyalties lie.

Aganzir: Other than the vote for Celuien, not a lot to go on. No major concerns at the moment.

Menel: Sometime he look suspicious. Sometime he make good point. Undecided.

Xyzzy: Not a lot to go on, but I didn’t like the possible attempt to “out” our Seer. Under observation.

Roa: A Celuien voter, so on my “innocent for now” list. Her contributions yesterDay looked reassuring to me. Again, though, I’m not underestimating her by any means.

Mac: Finding it difficult to get a reading on Mac at the moment.

Di: Funnily enough, I feel OK about Di. Her refusal to state her vote yesterDay was unlikely to be the approach of a Vamp.

Shasta: There are a number of things that make me wary of Shasta. Sometimes, he seems guileless, while he shows impressive insight at other times. Seemed to hide under a cloak of roleplaying yesterDay. Seems unduly defensive of Rikae toDay.

Kitanna: Still wary of that confusion over the Vampires yesterDay, which could well have been a bluff. But I am thinking it less likely by the minute that both she and Rikae are Vampires.

Sleepy: Nothing to go on at all. I thought that you were going to be more active toDay, Sleepy.

Durelin: I don’t see a Durelin Vampire. I see a Durelin being a Durelin. But I could be wrong.

Glirdy: Who?

Rune: Some Shade hints for sure, but perhaps too obvious. Other than that, has done a good job of doing very little to attract too much attention.

Sixth: Another one who I haven’t really got a handle on yet.

[The Saucepan Man]

Post count (prior to this one):

Gil-Galad 23
Nogrod 22
The Saucepan Man 21
Rikae 20
Shastanis Althreduin 16
Thinlómien 16
Boromir88 11
Volo 8
Eomer of the Rohirrim 8
Meneltarmacil 7
Macalaure 7
Rune Son of Bjarne 7
Roa_Aoife 7
Durelin 6
Legate of Amon Lanc 6
Diamond18 5
Aganzir 4
Kitanna 4
The Sixth Wizard 4
Celuien 4
Brinniel 3
xyzzy 3
Sleepy Ranger 2
Kath 1

Good lord, Gil! What has come over you?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by SPM

Rikae: A Vampire, surely. Accusing people based on banter, then very defensive about it. Throwing accusations around with little to back them. And I just don’t buy her expanation of that slip.

I'd just like to point out that we've discussed this, Rikae did not accuse anyone based on banter. Gil accused Rikae of accusing... I believe it was Mac or you, Espiem, of being a vampire based on your roleplaying post, but I thought we'd ascertained that Rikae was just bantering herself...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Shanta

I'd just like to point out that we've discussed this, Rikae did not accuse anyone based on banter.

I refer the honourable gentleman to my post #144

Shasta, why the defensiveness over Rikae? Surely it's not as simple as Rikae, Nogrod and Shasta ...?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Shasta, why the defensiveness over Rikae? Surely it's not as simple as Rikae, Nogrod and Shasta ...?

A good point. Although the trhreesome is wrong anyways.

And as you're not to believe my word on it (now why would you?) just ask yourself the question would anyone sane enough speak and act (=vote) like I have done if I were a Vampire? There are so many easier ways to accomplish the thing...

Should I make the list now? Maybe I should. Just a moment...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't think I'm being overly defensive, when the only evidence against Rikae is overshadowed by better evidence on other people.

Besides, I like her username. :P

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Though, I just realized...how do we know there should have been 5 votes for Celuien?

Eomer, the Lynch Seer last Night, stated that Celuien had five votes. Although I do not discount the possibility that he was lying (and thus Vampiric), I am at a loss to see what good would it do him (if a Vampire) to paint an innocent's vote as a lie.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And as you're not to believe my word on it (now why would you?) just ask yourself the question would anyone sane enough speak and act (=vote) like I have done if I were a Vampire?

Quite honestly, yes. Taking into account the circumstances prevailing when you stated your vote, a claimed vote for Legate was a "safe" one at the time claimed.

Originally Posted by Noggers

Should I make the list now? Maybe I should. Just a moment...

I look forward to it ...

[Kitanna]

So, I don't have as much time as I would like. And I will most likely be sleeping when Day ends so I'm going to e-mail my vote soon. At the moment it looks like I'll be voting for Rikae because I've had a chance to look at her better than anyone else.
I don't like the feeling of her points about Eomer from yesterday. And her jumpiness from yesterday makes me worried. So I will most likely vote Rikae, but if I find something while reading and I change, I'll post here.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Shasta

I don't think I'm being overly defensive, when the only evidence against Rikae is overshadowed by better evidence on other people.

So you really think that, having picked up on Eomer's accusation of Kitanna, she suddenly forgot that it was Eomer's point that had prompted this and innocently convinced herself that it was Celuien's (subsequent) post that had prompted it instead?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Noggeridoodah

Although the trhreesome is wrong anyways.

Ah, but since Durelin accused me of posting like you, I had to come up with a triangulation ...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, I kind of see it along the lines of something I actually did a while back... I was typing some evidence or something, and meant to type Nogrod... but on the screen, I had a post of Thinlo's that I was looking at, and I typed Thinlo's name instead of Nogrod... isn't that the kind of slip Rikae's claiming? If not, I may have misunderstood...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Shasta

I was typing some evidence or something, and meant to type Nogrod... but on the screen, I had a post of Thinlo's that I was looking at, and I typed Thinlo's name instead of Nogrod... isn't that the kind of slip Rikae's claiming? If not, I may have misunderstood...

No, it's not like that at all. Go back and have a look, and take note also of her attempts to explain herself toDay.

Although she did make the wrong quote attribution in #191, which is something I did twice when guilty, as Lomiella will no doubt recall.

I suppose it is possible that it was an innocent slip, but I'm finding it hard to see it as such.

[Nogrod]

I suspect: Rikae, Legate, Lommy

Uneasy about: Kitanna

I do not trust but think they might be innocent: Spm & Roa

I feel innocent: Mac & Boro

Tend to see as innocents: Durelin, Diamond, Aganzir

Am wary about with no proof or a case: Gil-Galad , Shastanis Althreduin, Eomer of the Rohirrim. Meneltarmacil, The Sixth Wizard

The too obvious shade: Rune Son of Bjarne should be dealt with later...

The enigmas who don't seem to wish to help: Xyzzy, Slepy, Glirdy.

[The Saucepan Man]

Reasons, my dear Noggins?

[Roa_Aoife]

You know, Nogrod, I really wouldn't have pressed the whole thing if you hadn't kept bringing it up. But since you insist:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I hadn't any case against Rikae yesterday (RL).

Is that so? Post #42 mentions Rikae in almost every sentence, and though you don't state at first that she's acting strangely, it bears the distinct marks of a lawyer slowly building up to a direct accusation, which in fact, the post does. Here are some excerpts:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

she also came quite close to lying - basically she did it. That's always pretty suspicious.

The point that follows this is Rikae bantering IN CHARACTER with Mac. You even admit that this is the case, yet you still accuse her of lying.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Her suspicion on Gil seems even stranger. Gil suspects her to be sure but retaliation isn't the way a smart villager would react - and Rikae surely is smart. She says:

You then quote Rikae stating that Gil is the one accusing people based on in-characterness. You also state that Gil had been doing no such thing, when his very accusation of Rikae is doing just that. Again you accuse her of lying when she is not.

Also, I find it interesting that you say "retaliation isn't the way a smart villager would react" when you seem quite insistent on suspecting those who suspect you. (Myself, SPM, and some others)

Then:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I wouldn't like to lose Rikae either, but would be very interested in hearing some explanations on why she downright lied to us...

"Downright lied"? If this isn't a case, I don't know what is. You are the only one lying here, Nogrod.

Originally Posted by Durelin

You know, this whole the vampires don't get to vote thing really isn't an advantage to the villagers. It might be a little bit of a disadvantage for the vampires, but at the same time it helps keep them extremely clean - we can't really get much dirt on them based on their votes, because they're not really voting. About the only warning signs we'd get is if the stated votes added up give a different result than the kill, and the chances of that happening at this point are very slim. And still then we'd only know that there's almost definitely a vampire in a certain voting group....

This post bothers me. The bolded points are misinformation about our voting situation, and they look designed to discourage revealing our votes, without blatantly doing so.
The Vampires not voting is an advantage for the village- they can't vote to save each other, and they can't force the lynch of an innocent.

If everyone states their votes, we can get dirt on the vampires. We'd have their "cases" and the knowledge of who they claimed to vote for, and when they claimed to do so.

We wouldn't just have the chance that the votes don't add up, which is not as slim as this post made it sound, but we also have the times when they add up. And further more, we can look at those who consistently do not vote for the Lynchee, especially those you vote at the end when it's fairly obvious who will be lynched.

As for the last one, we'd have more knowledge from that than we would in a game where the vampires can vote. In those games, we only have a best guess for which voting group the werewolves are hiding in. Further more, by cross referencing with groups where things did add up, we can start eliminating names.

Originally Posted by durelin

I didn't state my vote because I didn't vote.

Care to explain why?

Originally Posted by durelin

Of course there's no way to prove that.

Well, there's one way....

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One could look at this differently as well. At least I think I acted reasonably by withholding my vote on Celuien - which I was going to make - as she was able to post her RL reasons for her incomplete reasoning on her vote which made me to back off from voting her. Sadly it came only twenty minutes before the deadline and so we were in too much a hurry there anyway.

This is a fair point, but I would like to reiterate that people who consistently wait till the last minute and vote for an unlikely lynchee should be looked at very closely.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I mean it's quite frustrating when people make points on poor grounds

That's funny coming from you.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So think people, think yourselves. Why would someone do something?

You mean like, "Why would someone encourage others to not listen to the people who have cases against him?"

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Rikae I'm pretty wary about as well as Gil (so much that I love his new style!). And the newbie-stauts notwithstanding Shasta looks pretty suspicious too...

Why Gil, so suddenly? And isn't convenient that you are suddenly suspicious of Shasta (who is being much more reasonable today) when he just stated that your points against Rikae made you look suspicious?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I hadn't quite made a closer look at you Lommy before this - okay, 23 people to begin with - but this looks pretty bad. So you kind of wish to say that I'm suspicious because I make a suggestion of looking at another direction for a while but you still manage to pick a few from my list to look after as well...

And again you suspect someone who supects you!

Originally Posted by SPM

Rikae: .... Accusing people based on banter

I hate to nitpick, but as I've just been explaining this to Nogrod, I feel I have to remind you that Rikae's only "accusation" based on incharacterness was also incharacter, and therefor not an accusation at all. All the mis-information floating in this thread is really worrisome.

I'll be back in a little bit with another post.

EDIT:Cross posted with alot

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Reasons, my dear Noggins?

Oh my. It's almost four AM here... well I see what I can do... but do not wait for any full analyses on 21 people right now...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Roa

I hate to nitpick, but as I've just been explaining this to Nogrod, I feel I have to remind you that Rikae's only "accusation" based on incharacterness was also incharacter, and therefor not an accusation at all.

I refer the honourable lady to my post #218 and to the post referred to therein.

I really don't understand why so many people appear to be rallying round Rikae when, to my mind, she has clearly dissembled on at least two occasions so far. Roa, I agree with much of what you have said, but why do you feel so confident (as it appears) about Rikae? Is it simply because Nogrod made a case against her yesterDay? I would note that, on the basis of what has passed, it is not beyoind the bounds of possibility that both are Vampires. Noggie made strong cases against both Celuien and Rikae yesterDay, and yet ended up claiming to vote for Legate.

Originally Posted by Noggeridge

Oh my. It's almost four AM here... well I see what I can do... but do not wait for any full analyses on 21 people right now...

Hey, where's your spirit, man? Brief reasons will do for now ...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Stuff that Rikae did:

14 ~ Doesn't trust Esspiem or Mac.

18 ~ Nothing.

22 ~ More RPing rubbish. Doesn't mind getting suspected by SpM.

31 ~ "I always think that everything could be a trick. Which is why I'm still alive."

37 ~ Says we shouldn't accuse people on in-character banter. Which is basically all she has been posting till this post.

44 ~ Lalala...

46 ~ Defends herself vs. Gil.

55 ~ "It seems I've stirred things up a bit. Which was exactly my intention... I tested the waters ... I've done what I can, at this early hour, to reveal the wolves....

56 ~ More 'go ahead, lynch me' stuff.

70 ~ "I think Eomer has a good point about Kitanna. I can't quite believe she would honestly make the mistake of thinking the gifteds were on the vampires' side. I would be interested in hearing more from her.
And as for you, Mac, I ought to suspect you for claiming I made a case against Nogrod when I did not. "

80 ~ Now suspicious of Kitanna. I think she misread Kit's post.

82 ~ Now not jumping to conclusions.

84 ~ Just explaining summat to Lommy.

93 ~ Now giving Kitanna benefit of the doubt, and going against Menel, claims it's not a spite vote.

97 ~ "I looked at her [Kitanna's] post to see what she was "doing", and indeed, it looked fishy. If we had a cobbler, I'd say it looked cobblerish, but I don't think we do."

101 ~ Votes for Menel.

Finis.

[Meneltarmacil]

I appear to have misread Eomer's post. He simply stated that Kitanna was a Vampire in Post 67 just to see what reactions he would get. Interestingly, as he observes, Rikae and Celuien jump on Kitanna after his "suspicion" is mentioned.

What to make of Eomer's strange action? We know Celuien is innocent. Kitanna, Eomer, and Rikae are unknowns, though Rikae has been a suspect of mine.

Possibilities:
1. Eomer is innocent. He was not actually suspicious of Kitanna, and was trying to flush out Vampires. This is possible, but I don't think putting a likely innocent at risk is something that another innocent would do. However, Eomer's predecessors from past ages have been known to be a little ruthless from time to time.

2. Eomer is innocent, and genuinely suspicious of Kitanna. This is alomst certainly not the case, as he claims that he "didn't have a single point about Kitanna" in post 79. I highly doubt an innocent would deny an actual suspicion.

3. Eomer is a Vampire and was trying to set Kitanna up to be killed. No. See above.

4. Eomer is a Vampire, and Kitanna is another Vampire. Doubtful, but Eomer would probably be willing to sacrifice a fellow Vampire if it suited his interests. His predecessors from times past have done similar things. However, casting suspicion on a fellow Vampire and hen washing one's hands of it seems a little too sloppy to me.

There are problems with every hypothesis I've come up with, but I think 2 and 3 can be eliminated. As for 1 and 4, there are not many clues to go on.

Eomer, were you honestly expressing suspicions of Kitanna back there, or were you just trying to see how people would react?

[Durelin]

I do not have much time, but...

Roa - I didn't vote yesterDay because I didn't have time. I said so on the Admin thread, too....at any rate, I tend not to go into explanations about RL stuff because to tell you the truth, I find that rather annoying that people harp on that as a defense (no offense...though it would help I guess if we weren't all concerned about how silent or not silent people are). But here's my story:

First, the Day start/end time is at 11 am for me. I'm in school from 8:00 am to 3:00 pm, approximately. Second, in the evening before the end time of 11 am the next day, I was busy doing homework and then helping my dear mother with a evening science activity thingy at her work. I was being a good child. Contributing to my community. On a Wednesday evening. Saintly, I tell you. I am clean.

I'm tempted to not state my vote just to bother people, because this whole "omg-people!-the-voteses-matters-and-the-fact-that-anyone-can-lie-doesn't-matter!" is getting on my nerves.

I think it's a very easy campaign for a vampire to pick up on and look very innocent, because their advocating a very "innocent-looking" cause. And doing it very loudly makes people, particularly those who support this "cause" (who I'd say are in the majority), sympathize with them.

In the post Roa quoted from, I wasn't advocating not stating votes...in fact, in the same post I assured everyone that I would state my vote. But whatever.

And yes, I still think people should honestly state their votes if we're going to stand a chance, but naturally if something's getting shoved down my throat I'm not going to take it well.

Sauce - Thanks for clearing up the 5 votes thing...forgot that was in Eomer's post.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Hey, where's your spirit, man? Brief reasons will do for now ...

Thanks mate!

But the only thing I wish to say right now is: cool down Roa. You are either making a big mistake or then you earn to die as a vamipre you are... your case anyhow is just built on sham.

Your case is indeed just idiotic. And I know you've played on earlier occasions just counting on that - that there are enough players who don't think themselves and you can sway their votes. If you have gathered that support then good for you, but at least now (as in the previous game) you're barking at the wrong tree... So might you just learn if you're innocent? Otherwise I could understand your point well enough.

So just give me / us one reason why I would have played as I have done were I a Vampire! There is a difference between playing the baddie and the goodie and you know that. Trying to make a case on me then looks like vampiery. Nothing else can explain this to me then (you said you were insulted by the fact that I dared to suspect you slightly yesterDay. I can't see you as petty as to make a retaliation on that reason... so then your "retaliation" is of a villanous nature...). Sorry, but you're being revealed...

You propose that we should be assured that argumernts can win the game so give us one then and do not hide behind far-fetched suppositions and speculative ideas! Quit making these "a vampire might have done this" things and give some evidence you're so happy to rely on at the level of rhetorics. You play only on the level of rhertoric and have nothing solid to go for - even though you call for optimism about the solid things we have... Cut the crap, please. And don't fool us any more.

It's easy to build things on "X might have done this were he a Vampire".

I'll do one for you just for the fun of it tomorrow (RL).

Think Roa, think... Don't be stupid.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Do you honestly expect me to read throught all of that ? If you do you will be very disapointed. . . I am just going to make a few comments now and save my brilliant/imaginative post until tomorrow.

Originally Posted by The Penguin One

I fail too see what is suspicious about that post of Rune's. Xyzzy, have you considered the possibility that this feigning mysterious (I say feigning because I don't find Rune any more mysterious than anyone else here) might be a part of Rune's character in this game?

YATZY!

oh and SPM unless I am mistaking it was me who wanted peoples wievs on the lynch seer.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Of course, there's the fact that you seem to be relying a lot on the following:

"Why would I act as I am acting if I was a Vampire?"

This opens up a whole logic loop:

You could be relying on this because you're acting they way you are because you ARE a vampire, and are relying on the above statement to make people think you're innocent.

I don't think I stated that the way I wanted to... maybe I'll be more articulate later.

Edit: x'd with Rune

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Shasta rolled his eyes.

"You know, of the two of us, I think Gil has been acting more suspicious. All I did was forget to put someone's name on a list of suspected people, and suddenly I'm a vampire, apparently. I guess that's what I get for trying to be helpful."

He shrugged. "I'm still voting for Gil."

sigh...


its not the list that made people suspicous of you, it is what your other posts have been... granted your suspicous list did indeed lack alot and was mistaken, and that di propel you into teh spotlight today

Wow... also i do have the seventh highest post count on the downs too...

"Why would I act as I am acting if I was a Vampire?"

this opens up the whole "flying under the radar" paradox as well... t is simply what i did in my first games, act confusing as Mandos Halls (teehee) and make people ignore you long enough till they are forced to get rid of you


so far only two votes have been cast, and i am starting to debate to myself about my two suspicous ones... Shasta or Rikae... but it looks like Rikae is recieving enough judgement today so maybe one of those two will be voted off...

oh and liking someones name isn't the best reason to defend for someone...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I realize that, that was just my frivolous reason. Although I'm starting to rethink my position on Rikae, given that Espiem pointed me in the right direction about her mistake....

I still think you're more suspicious though. :P

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I still think you're more suspicious though. :P

if you have the time then look through all 25 of my posts and present a post of why i am suspicous? because i would really like to know why you have such a huge case againest me