Werewolf XXXII: The Lost Age

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Would you care to share who that ordo is? I think any known innocent at this point is a great help, but it's up to you.

Originally Posted by Boro

Keep that to yourself and make the decision yourself. With the ranger protection the vampires won't be going after you, but if they know who you're going to dream of they will be going after your dream.

A really bad advice (the first) and a good one (the second) in a same post...

You do puzzle me Boro. I hope the first was a mistake. Rikae should not pose the innocent as an open target to the wolves if the one is not going to be lynched.

EDIT: X'd with Boro & Rune

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

actually scratch that Rikae, it's better you reveal all your info tomorrow

I am gald you added this. . .I found the other sugestion a bit worrying.

[Aganzir]

Isn't the Shade able to protect during Nights, too? What if the Ranger protects Rikae next Night and the Shade the following Night? This would win us one dream more.

Of course, it's up to the Shade.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

OK I am willing to vote xyzzy if others are as well. . .but I have to know now otherwise I vote Menel.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Menel

[Thinlómien]

Well, Rune, like I just said I'm willing to vote him. I think Nogrod and Saucepan might be inclined too, and Aganzir seemingly too...

Yet I must say I'm not very suspicious of xyzzy, for me voting him is more like an attempt to eliminate a possible threat and an attempt which may give even unexpectedly good results (if xyzzy is a vampire that is)...

edit: xed with Rune

[Aganzir]

I can vote for Xyzzy, although I'm probably saying this too late for Rune. I would, however, like to wait before casting my vote, in case that either Xyzzy or Menel shows up and wants to defend himself.

edit: x'd with Lommy

[Boromir88]

That was probably the worst advice I have ever given in my WW history but I realized that before you and Rune could jump down my throat (my computer is locking up and I can not use "periods" or "commas" so sorry if this is just a giant blob of words)

anyway I am going to vote for

++Legate

[Nogrod]

I might go for Xyzzy as well, but it just feels bad... Yes I know I have been the one who always calls for the elimination of those who do not contribute to our case early on if there are no better candiodate but then when it comes to it in practise I find myself wawering...

Boro's suggestion of Legate isn't impossible either. I voted him yesterDay and could do it again. I referred to the reasons earlier toDay and if I have time (I'm sharing the computer still with Lommy) I will try to see if I can manage to make at least myself assured about it.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

ehm

Originally Posted by Kath over and hour and 10 min ago

Just to warn you, I may not be able to be here exactly on the deadline, so you're all on your honour to stop talking at 3PM, which is an hour and 10 minutes away by my clock. Hopefully I will be here, this is a just in case.

[Nogrod]

There's just too many of us in this game!

I was looking back the thread and realised it again... I mean I could as well go for Kitanna, Shasta, Sleepy, Glirdy, Durelin, Diamond... So many people under my radar at the moment and only a half an hour (shared with Lommy) on this Day.

[Aganzir]

Whoever the Lynch Seer will be, I think it's better if s/he won't give the lynchee a chance to kill somebody (even though s/he her/himself thought the lynchee was innocent), now that we know Rikae is the seer. Just in case.

[Nogrod]

Rune. The deadline is 3PM GMT. So we have forty minutes still...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Yes GMT. . . I am in GMT+1 and it is 16:20 here, I am sorry, but it is you who have mixed up the timezones.

[The Saucepan Man]

We still have another 40 mins or so before the deadline, right? I hope so.

Rikae, we must stop clashing like this ...

I'll believe your claim for now (with no counter claims having been made thus far), and I am sorry for pressing you. It's just that slip looked so suspicious to me.

I have no problem at all with you dreaming of me, although you would not catch a Wolf. In any event, you should most certainly not given any further hints here concerning your dream subject.

By my calculations (and subject to any cross-posts), the stated votes stand as follows at present:

Diamond: Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1)
Shasta: Gil (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1)
Kitanna: Rikae (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 1)
Sixth: Rikae (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2)
Rikae: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1)
Menel: Boro (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1)
Rune: Menel (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Boro: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1)

Obviously, we should look to save Rikae. My preference would be to vote for Nogrod, who was second on my suspicion list before Rikae revealed. I would, however, be prepared to vote for Menel, Shasta or Xyzzy, all of whom I also find suspicious, to save Rikae.

I guess that if Rikae's known innocent looks like a strong possibility for lynching, she should reveral. Otherwsie, most certainly not.

[Thinlómien]

No, Rune, because of the daylight saving time you're currently on GMT+2... And the British people are in GMT+1, not in GMT.

[Durelin]

Just a quick post to let everyone know I want to vote for Boro but I want to save Rikae, too.....

A post with some explanation will follow shortly, promise.

[Thinlómien]

I'd maybe prefer to vote xyzzy, but I could vote maybe Menel or Legate as well.. I don't know. I should revise but I lack the time...

[Aganzir]

I don't know if it would be clever to vote toDay for someone who Rikae is possibly going to dream of toNight, as we won't know who has been lynched until morning.

[Durelin]

Looking over the thread, with Legate voters from yesterDay in mind, Boro strikes me as very suspicious...(actually he, Roa, and Mac seem like such a perfect trio...)

His play style yesterDay in particular, after everyone jumped on Celuien and Rikae, was interesting. He furthered the suspicion of both Celuien and Rikae nicely with his "By God, bloody brilliant vampire-trapping, ol' chap" to Eomer, without actually stating that they were "great suspects" of his or anything. Seems safe to me.

Then Roa follows up just a post later with Celuien and Rikae being suspicious to her for "falling for Eomer's trap."

He said himself that he didn't say anything about Kitanna...was there really a trap there? It seems a little odd to me to focus on people "outing" other people, so to speak. I think a great deal of what people do is to try and get reactions. And when people bite, everyone gets to see their behavior...it's their behavior that matters, right? I don't know, it just feels odd.

You know what really sucks? We don't even know for sure if Rikae really is in danger of lynching or not. Bleh. But we can't risk it.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

(copy from andmin thread) Sorry folks for me not being playing today, I wasn't at home from yesterday's afternoon till now since I was away from the city, I originally thought I'd make it home from faculty to be here at the start of the day or at least post that I'll be away, but I didn't make it.

I guess it's not much time here so I'll try to look through the thread, hopefully'll be yet back.

[Durelin]

Oh, I forgot to say the obvious - that after encouraging the Celuien vote, Boro states his vote to be Legate. He doesn't actually go as far as really being partly responsible for her lynching, but he does act behind it. Obviously people can change their minds, but hey...that's what I got right now.

Edit: And just as I was wondering where Legate was...

It seems odd to me that Boro would stick to a Day 1 vote, particularly when his suspect wasn't even here toDay. I know that doesn't mean anything, but it seems more like something I'd do than Boro...or something...less "sensible" seeming. Or something.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Spm

I refer the honourable lady to my post #218 and to the post referred to therein.

I assume what you refer to (which you never deigned to quote) is post #34, in which Rikae is almost enitrely in character, both when she accuses Mac and when she accuses you. The only not in-character thing she says is to agree with you about your plan. You, my dear, Saucey, read it mistakenly. (Similar to how you misread Volo's joke about Nogrod, Lommy, and Aganzir being the Vampires.) Or else you are intentionally spreading misinformation. I do not fail to note that you direct us to your post on the matter, and not the actual post in question. Very sneaky of you.

Roa, I agree with much of what you have said, but why do you feel so confident (as it appears) about Rikae?

I'm not at all confident of Rikae. Especially not after display post Eomer's trap. However, I will not simply oblige a mistaken case just because I also suspect a person. Only people who aren't thinking of the good of the village do that. If we are to find wolves, we must be objective. That includes discarding inaccurate points about someone we find suspicious.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You propose that we should be assured that argumernts can win the game so give us one then and do not hide behind far-fetched suppositions and speculative ideas! Quit making these "a vampire might have done this" things and give some evidence you're so happy to rely on at the level of rhetorics. You play only on the level of rhertoric and have nothing solid to go for - even though you call for optimism about the solid things we have... Cut the crap, please. And don't fool us any more.

Touchy, aren't we? My case, as you either intentionally or mistakenly misread, is not a "A vampire might have done this" case. It's a "You blatanly lied about someone and then tried to cover it up. This makes you suspicious," case. My case is not built on Far-fecthed suppositions, but on hard fact: what happened, and then what you said about what happened. I used almost entirely your quotes for it. No speculation necessary. I have pretty solid evidence in everything you've said. So you cut the crap and admit that you've been acting strangely- if you hadn't denied it so vehemently, I would have let it go.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I am the seer.

*sigh* I was supecting you were a gifted of some kind. I told you guys you didn't have a good case aginst her.


I don't have time to finish reading.

Rikae, dream for who you want (I'm a little surprised thar one us three was not your first choice) but I wouldn't mind getting dreamed- it'd be nice to shut Nogrod up about how I'm clearly evil because I dared to suspect him.

As for me, I will vote Nogrod. He just keeps looking worse- jumpy, over defensive, retaliatory, and just plain mean at some points. PLus despite finding me so clearly evil, he doesn't have me on his possible vote list.


Sorry about the lack of posting- I will explain on the Admin thread.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

anyways nevermind the timezone talk, I still think that it could be debated that we are undermining the mods divine rights, even if the mods decition is based on a misunderstanding.

Now of course there is no reason to stop, but maybe one ought to have guide lines for what to do in similar situations.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

actually scratch that Rikae, it's better you reveal all your info tomorrow

Yes, exactly...as I somehow think you would have known.

As for suggestions on who to dream; I thought it might prove useful, later, to see what was suggested by whom.
I'm not going to reveal who I've actually chosen to dream about until tomorrow.

[The Saucepan Man]

Picking up on some comments from earlier:

Originally Posted by Mac

I wonder why SPM calls Nogrod's vote a safe vote. With so many votes not given, the fake votes of the vampires and the course of the suspicions near the deadline, I too thought we had a good shot at lynching Legate.

At the time Nogrod voted (right at the deadline), Legate had 1 stated vote, whereas Rikae had 3 and Celuien had 4. Other than you, no one else had given any indication that they might vote for him. Sorry, but it looks one of the safer votes to me.

Originally Posted by Mac

Unless a vampire (who has a better idea about who the actual lynchee is than innocents do!) has a reason to fear for himself or one of his companions, I don't see why they shouldn't post the riddle. For them it's nothing but a calculated risk to have another innocent killed.

Fair point. I was considering whether we might be able to draw conclusions on the Lynch Seer’s guilt or innocence from whether or not he or she posts a riddle. Perhaps, however, it is best to wait and see how things actually pan out each morning and then try to draw conclusions.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Maybe a vampire said that he/she would vote for a fellow vampire in public, but then actually cast his/her real vote for Celuien.

No, the Vampires cannot vote. The missing Celuien vote was either cast by Glirdy (unlikely) or by someone who stated that they voted for someone else/did not vote. Most likely the Shade, in my view.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Isn't the Shade able to protect during Nights, too? What if the Ranger protects Rikae next Night and the Shade the following Night? This would win us one dream more.

A good point, worth making. But we can’t rely on it. The Shade is playing the perecentage game. Hopefully he or she will see that, as matter stand, his/her best interests lie with siding with the innocents.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't know if it would be clever to vote toDay for someone who Rikae is possibly going to dream of toNight, as we won't know who has been lynched until morning.

A fair point, unless Rikae can get a good indication of who is likely to be lynched from the stated votes.

[Nogrod]

Durelin, you're just voicing my thoughts! All this stuff of Eomer's trap was pretty awkward to me as well - and later he even confessed there was no trap...

Also:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't know if it would be clever to vote toDay for someone who Rikae is possibly going to dream of toNight, as we won't know who has been lynched until morning.

Exactly! Spm, if I'm alive toMorrow I will ask a few questions from you but toDay I'm not wishing for your lynching. Let's be sensible here.

And let's add some names to Rikae's list of possible dream-candidates just as not to make it too easy for the vamps the next Night. So please Rikae consider also dreaming of Boro, Mac, Lommy at least - I have nothing against your initial list of three I would indeed love to find out either of the two and would be glad to be declared innocent as well - although that would mean getting killed pretty soon afterwards but whatever.

The fact that the wolves killed Brinniel last Night suggests to me that we have at least one vampire in that list of five I've suggested.

But let's see to it toMorrow.

And shade! This is your moment of glory! Protect one from the list while the ranger protects Rikae. That way we may have one more known innocent toMorrow.

[Macalaure]

Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1

Pretty spread votes...

I think Nogrod and Boro to be more on the innocent side, so I wouldn't want to vote for them.

I would only vote Gil or Shasta reluctantly.

Though I suspect Legate, he hasn't been here much today, so I would give him the benefit of doubt.

I therefore would prefer Menel.

[Aganzir]

Nogrod, if the Shade protects someone from Rikae's list, that means s/he couldn't protect Rikae the next Night. If I remembger correctly, the rules stated that the Shade can't do same thing two Nights in a row.

[Durelin]

Well, everyone's just stating their preferences, so I'm going to actually vote for my preference and hope for the best from the previous votes and the votes that are to come....

So, ++Boro and all that...

[Nogrod]

Oh my. Good point! The shade can't do the same thing twice in a row...

Okay shade. do not consider my suggestion any more.

[Rikae]

Somebody better vote for someone with two votes, or what I dream won't matter!

[Roa_Aoife]

++Nogrod

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Didn't read almost anything, but basically looking at the last page - so Rikae is a Seer and the most votes are now for her? I don't really have any evidence, but I might cast my vote in order to help someone get more votes over Rikae. Probably whatever it'd be, it'll be better than lynching the Seer. I'm probably going to look who's contesting her number of votes and vote him.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Roa

I assume what you refer to (which you never deigned to quote) is post #34, in which Rikae is almost enitrely in character, both when she accuses Mac and when she accuses you.

No, I was talking of her post #14, as I thought was perfectly clear from my post, in which she cast suspicion on me based upon my opening banter:

Originally Posted by Rikae

And what is this talk of "less developed characters" from Esspiem? I never quite trust someone who starts off with a joke about his or her own vulnerability, combined with a long speech reiterating the situation at hand.

Obviously, it has little bearing now as far as Rikae is concerned, but I pick you up on it as you are seeking to use it to cast aspersions on my character.

[Thinlómien]

I think voting xyzzy would be of no use: it'd just spread the vote more and there wouldn't probably be enough support to get him lynched... I guess I'll vote Menel then, though I'm feeling a bid bad and loads unsure about it... I'll do a very quick Menel's today check...

[Roa_Aoife]

SPM you can vote Nogrod now, since he has two votes, and save our seer at the same time.

[Rikae]

Legate...you are. And so is Nogrod...and Menel, I think...

[Macalaure]

Rikae 2
Legate 2
Nogrod 2
Boro 2
Menel 1
Gil 1
Shasta 1

[Thinlómien]

No check needed and no time fort it. To play it safe (seer-wise) I'll vote Menel, as I find him slightly more suspicious than Legate.