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07-05-2005, 09:12 AM | #1 |
Auspicious Wraith
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Oh, I'm a ghost and I'm OK; dodge arrows all night 'n' clash swords all day!
Legolas' arrow goes straight through the King of the Dead.
The King's sword is presumably just as ghostly as the King. Yet his sword makes real contact with Aragorn's sword. What's going on here? (I am expecting a religious/spiritual backlash.)
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07-05-2005, 09:29 AM | #2 |
Mischievous Candle
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Another interesting thing is that when the ghosts walk over an orc it dies but when they rummage through the Three Hunters, they are not harmed.
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Fenris Wolf
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07-05-2005, 09:35 AM | #3 |
Everlasting Whiteness
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I thought the whole sword thing happened because of the history of Anduril having been part of the oath that the dead made.
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07-05-2005, 09:51 AM | #4 |
Pile O'Bones
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I think that it might have something to do with the fact that Aragorn is weilding the sword, they are bound by the oath. Or maybe the sword isn't ghostly? When men rot weapons still stay intact.
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07-05-2005, 10:00 AM | #5 |
Child of the West
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Mmmmm, I smell a plot hole. O those crazy dead.
I always thought the fact their swords clang had to do with Anduril and Aragorn being the rightful king. But the fact that the hunters are not killed when the ghosts pass over them is strange.
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07-05-2005, 10:28 AM | #6 | ||
Corpus Cacophonous
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07-05-2005, 12:05 PM | #7 | ||||
Mischievous Candle
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Fenris Wolf
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07-05-2005, 12:28 PM | #8 | ||
Corpus Cacophonous
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
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07-05-2005, 12:38 PM | #9 |
Auspicious Wraith
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Don't get me wrong; I know that that's the answer, Anduril and all that. I guess I might be looking at a wider issue not necessarily to do with Tolkien, though maybe Tolkien did provide an answer.
How on Earth (and Middle-earth) can ghosts pose an apparently physical threat?
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07-05-2005, 01:00 PM | #10 |
Beloved Shadow
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Perhaps PJ's orcs are extremely allergic to green mist?
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the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important. |
07-05-2005, 01:24 PM | #11 | |
Cryptic Aura
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07-05-2005, 01:58 PM | #12 | |
Shadowed Prince
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Speaking of which, why did the ghosts have clothes? Can cloth be ghosted? |
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07-05-2005, 02:18 PM | #13 | |
Pile O'Bones
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Maybe it's the fact that they are fulfilling an oath for good. The orcs can't take the good?
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Aerodynamically the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly....he doesn't know that so he goes on flying anyway! |
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07-05-2005, 07:14 PM | #14 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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But if we are going to come over all realistic about it, how on earth (and in Middle-earth) can ghosts exist at all?
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07-05-2005, 09:43 PM | #15 | ||
Cryptic Aura
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But tgwbs, cloaks are de rigueur for swishy villains. No self-respecting baddie in a historical costume drama would be found without one.Where would Darth Vader have been without his? Just another deep throat. And ghosts are unhappy souls who are doomed to walk this earth (or, apparently, float in green goo). They cannot shake off completely this mortal coil. And that includes the duds they died in supposedly. Dickens' Christmas ghosts were all clothed but come to think of it Shakespeare didn't actually represent his ghosts on stage. Quote:
*exit, stage left, followed by angry mob* Last edited by Bêthberry; 07-05-2005 at 09:48 PM. |
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07-06-2005, 02:04 AM | #16 | ||
A Mere Boggart
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What happens when an Orc dies anyway? I presume there is some Orcish equivalent of the Halls of Mandos, being as they are immortal and presumably tied to the earth just as the Elves are. And would this be in Middle Earth? Maybe that explains why they were so hard to deal with, like ants they just kept coming back. Quote:
Why should 'ghosts' not exist in Middle earth? The idea of hroa/fea would make plenty of room for the possibility of 'ghosts'. After all, we only have an idea of what a 'ghost' might be like, we have no concrete explanation of our own so Tolkien like many writers has been free to play around with that.
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07-06-2005, 05:01 AM | #17 | |
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07-06-2005, 07:19 AM | #18 |
Auspicious Wraith
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Well, this is pretty much my point: In order to be clever and worthy, an author should explain his ghosts, because some people might just think that the idea of ghosts is absurd.
In the film it is just assumed that the audience will think "OK, ghosts; great." but why not go further than this? I am very interested in the idea of ghosts so I'd like to talk about it. I don't get how the arrow just goes through the ghost. And how come they just appear out of nowhere when entering battle? Have they power over their own visibility? Why are they visible anyway? To make it Tolkien-related, I remember him saying somewhere that the Ringwraiths existed only partially in the world of Hobbits, and partially in another world (a shadow land?) Is this where the ghosts are flitting in and out of?
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07-06-2005, 07:28 AM | #19 | |
Shadowed Prince
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I'm unable to gather quotes at the moment as I'm in a bit of a rush, but:
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07-06-2005, 07:33 AM | #20 |
Auspicious Wraith
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See? That's an explanation I can like. Just don't let anyone try to apply it in the real world.
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07-06-2005, 08:32 AM | #21 | ||
Illusionary Holbytla
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There was some brief discussion of a shadow land in the CbC discussion of The Flight to the Ford, see esp. Davem, post #2 and myself, post #8. After that the discussion gave way to other (also very interesting) discussions... |
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07-06-2005, 03:12 PM | #22 |
Auspicious Wraith
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Is anyone going to comment on the awesome thread title?
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07-06-2005, 03:32 PM | #23 |
Everlasting Whiteness
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It is an awesome thread title Eomer, but thanks to you I've had the Lumberjack song stuck in my head ALL DAY!
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07-11-2005, 07:23 PM | #24 | |
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07-15-2005, 09:43 PM | #25 |
Pile O'Bones
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Is it wrong that I just put it all down to mystical ghost powers? Of which I know nothing because I am not, infact, a ghost?
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08-01-2005, 09:30 PM | #26 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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TGWBS: I think I recall that the "Shadow-land" was a type of parallel spirit world. The Elves dwell partially in it, as do the Wraiths and presumably these ghosts. Eomer of the Rohirrim: See? That's an explanation I can like. Just don't let anyone try to apply it in the real world. Hmm, the Bermuda Triangle? Even in the book, it is said that they 'do not suffer the living to pass' (Eowyn), so how do they stop the living?
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