WW LXXXIX: The Terror of Tol Fuin

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I have to be done with this game by, if not before, July 6. If we're not done by then, I'll have to withdraw.

So we know for sure if we're still a struggling village looking to kill some wolves by the 6th Sally is out. Why bother telling us this? If she's an ordo she can't protect, dream of, or kill anyone. She can only vote. Of course we're out one vote which isn't good, but at this point in the game why bother saying anything?
1) She's a gifted and she wants to ensure her survival so we can get as much use out of her as possible before her inevitable death.
2) She's a wolf and she wants to ensure survival under the guise of innocence by her self-possessed "this village can't win with a dead ordo Sally"
3) She's a foolish villager who has now left herself open for attacks at night.

Sally pretty much signed her own death warrant with that post anyway you look at it, but she wants us all believe we can't win the game as a village without her.

Statistically, if I'm killed as an ordo, the village cannot win. (The only exception to this is a tie.)

And so I declared shenanigans on this idea earlier. If Sally really is innocent, gifted or ordo, there's a good chance the wolves will take advantage and get her in the Night. I doubt she'd be foolish enough to say anything if she was a gifted. I might think the same thing of her being a wolf if she had stopped after saying she had to withdraw on the 6th. The second half of her post looks awfully suspicious to me. Still, there's doubt, it's a bold move to make, especially so early on Day 1 and in such a small game.

Moving on...

If they are, then I'll be voting for DeathWish!Sally until such time as further evidence is presented.

What? Who does that? Mith and Nerwen both commented on this. And I'm inclined to agree this is pretty shifty work. If you're unsure of Sally and are only doing it as a mercy-killing why not wait until Day progresses? Very little had actually been said yet and he's already heading down this road. And more alarming he is only using her to hold a vote until he digs up someone else to vote for.

I can understand suspicions of Sally, but simply killing her because she's going to die seems pretty wolfish. It's almost like "she's admitted she's an ordo, best to get one villager out of the way by Day and another by Night."

So my suspicions lie with Sally and Bom.
If Sally is a wolf she's making a daring move early on. If she's innocent she will probably become a midnight snack. She doesn't want to withdraw and that's understandable. The game has just begun though, perhaps her plea of innocence was premature seeing as at this point it's anyone's game. She has painted a target on herself whether innocent or guilty.

If Bom is guilty he's trying to steer votes to Sally under the guise of a mercy kill to keep conversation of away from him and his cohorts. He's hardly started a bandwagon or anything, but a wolf could keep all eyes on Sally today so the real threat is forgotten. Notice he doesn't say he thinks she's a wolf or an innocent. If he's innocent he was very bold and foolish to suggest voting for Sally just because she had to be gone by the 6th.

[satansaloser2005]

Ah, but you see, dear Kit, if the wolves try to kill me in the Night, they won't be targeting one of the gifteds. So not only have I now made the announcement of when we'll need to win the game by very clear, I've created possible confusion among the wolf pack.

A wolf pack which I now believe you might be a part of, precious.


Ain't life grand?



And now, a list!

Possibly evil (by basis of reacting suspiciously to my post):
Kit
Bom (depending on whether or not he was entirely joking, and even then)
Nerwen (for defending-ish me far too quickly for Nerwen)

Possibly evil (by basis of record):
Nilp
Mith
Nerwen
Kit
Lottie

Possibly evil (by basis of being insane):
Everyone

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

So we know for sure if we're still a struggling village looking to kill some wolves by the 6th Sally is out. Why bother telling us this? If she's an ordo she can't protect, dream of, or kill anyone. She can only vote. Of course we're out one vote which isn't good, but at this point in the game why bother saying anything?
1) She's a gifted and she wants to ensure her survival so we can get as much use out of her as possible before her inevitable death.
2) She's a wolf and she wants to ensure survival under the guise of innocence by her self-possessed "this village can't win with a dead ordo Sally"
3) She's a foolish villager who has now left herself open for attacks at night.

You failed to notice (or purposely ignored) the fact that one ordo can make a difference in the outcome simply by being alive.

I don't think that Sally would have endangered herself that much in her first post if she has a special role. However, I see what you mean about Bom. He's really pushing a sallywagon, or trying to.

Kit is #2 on my suspision list, for saying that Bom is pushing a sallywagon and pushing it herself yet further.

Originally Posted by Kit

Sally pretty much signed her own death warrant with that post anyway you look at it, but she wants us all believe we can't win the game as a village without her.

But no wolf will kill her after your post! That would be so obvious! The only explanation I could come up with is that you are a wolf who speaks while plotting who will be the first victim. And you're debating about Bom to make yourself look unconnected to him.

Very likely of being baddies:
-Bom
-Kit

Edit: xed with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

There are only eight hours left in the Day, people! Let's get cracking!

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

At, what it it your time? 2am? If I lose all my powers of observation at about 11pm....

I think it was half four - I had fallen asleep waiting for the update on the sick penguin (in NZ not Lommie). We are on summer time which threw me.,.. But it means dead line is 1 am so I may have to vote a bit early lest I once again lapse into a hoglike swoon at the crucial moment. Maybe the sheer excitement will keep me awake but at the moment .......

[Galadriel55]

I'm so confused with the time zones. I'm supposed to be in -5 but with all the daylight savings and whatever it's -4... BD should have a clock independant of all the time differences!

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

There are only eight hours left in the Day, people! Let's get cracking!

Don't put off posting until the last hour!

Sheesh, I thought this thread will be more active...

[satansaloser2005]

DL is in about seven hours, my good lad....y.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

DL is in about seven hours, my good lad....y.

I figured out when it is my time, but it's beyond me to convert it to other people's time.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I figured out when it is my time, but it's beyond me to convert it to other people's time.

Ah, gotcha. I'm a lot the same way. I set a secondary clock on my laptop to the Downs time so it's easier to convert it, if that helps. *shrugs* Time zones are silly.

[Mithalwen]

Galadriel, you might want to change your time zone for the downs then via options on the control panel - if you scroll down from the invisible option there is a box ot choose time zones. Either pick GMT and set the DST (daylight saving time) option to off. THen the posts on the Downs will show WW time (and your computer clock will keep you straight for your actual time). The only way I coped with Time zone changes in the States was to have a dual time watch with one set to UK time to keep something constant.

Could it be that all of extended Clan Nogrod have mixed up the midnights? I don't use 24hr clock much so I had to check myself ..... A lot can happen quicky though...they will probably all rush on at once and I'll go to make a cup of tea and find 5 pages to read on my return. So good weekend everyone?

[A Little Green]

Since the Sally-Bom-business is pretty much the only thing of substance discussed, I think I'll add my two cents on that before (hopefully) moving on to other matters.

Originally Posted by Sally

All right then, to business. Here are some facts to keep in mind.

I am an ordo.

I fully intend to win this game.

I have to be done with this game by, if not before, July 6. If we're not done by then, I'll have to withdraw.

I've never withdrawn from a game before. I have no desire to do so now.

If I don't withdraw, I'll have to be killed at some point (or modfired, which also has never happened).

Statistically, if I'm killed as an ordo, the village cannot win. (The only exception to this is a tie.)


Therefore, we need to kill all the werewolves before the sixth. If we don't, we don't win.

I'm not sure if I get all she's saying but her tone strikes me as more innocent than not.

Originally Posted by Bom

*ahem* It's well known that the first three people to post are the wolves. This means that while I agree with you, Nilp, about Sally being evil, so are you and . . . er . . . me. Um, maybe I should've thought that through more.

By the way, does anybody know whether votes are retractable? If it's in the rules, then I missed it.

If they are, then I'll be voting for DeathWish!Sally until such time as further evidence is presented.

"But she doesn't have a death wish," you say?

You will note that she has not withdrawn, ergo, according to her own (totally not-taken-out-of-context!) words, she will have to be killed.

This strikes me as more fishy than Sally's "ordo reveal". Might sound odd, but the only thing that makes me doubt his guilt is how many people suspect him.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

We have Sally claiming to be an ordo– which almost counts as a reveal, in a small game like this.

We have Bom Tombadillo stating his intention of voting Sally

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If votes were retractable, the rules would have said so (unless Zil wants to come to life to correct me).

Now, here's a question for you, Bom. Obviously, your reason for voting Sally is a joke. What about your intention of voting her as a placeholder candidate? Was that a joke too?

Unless I missed something, Nerwen is the first to comment the issue. She takes a very neutral tone, summarising what the two had done and asking a clarification from Bom. Careful.

Originally Posted by Shasta

In any case, the only actual game-related thing thus far that I see is Bom and his stated intention to vote Sally "if nothing better comes along", and Nerwen pointing it out, to which I also would like an answer, Bom.

Shasta pretty much echoes Nerwen, not taking sides, either.

Originally Posted by Mith

Interesting - I usually think not knowing the rules is suspicious - which mean Bom is looking interesting ... rule query, first post and this offer to more or less "mercy lynch" Sally. I have been in games where even one of those was a fast track to the gallows on Day One....Shasta..i am really beginning to understand your nerves! But would also be interested to hear Bom answer Nerwen's question.

Mith is the second to press Bom to answer Nerwen. While I am of the opinion that neither knowing or not knowing the rules can be taken as a sign of wolvery, I can't really quarrel with Mith's conclusion (=Bom is looking interesting).

Then we have Kit's novel on Sally and Bom. I'm not going to quote it in full, but rather extracts I found interesting.

Originally Posted by Kit

So we know for sure if we're still a struggling village looking to kill some wolves by the 6th Sally is out. Why bother telling us this? If she's an ordo she can't protect, dream of, or kill anyone. She can only vote. Of course we're out one vote which isn't good, but at this point in the game why bother saying anything?
1) She's a gifted and she wants to ensure her survival so we can get as much use out of her as possible before her inevitable death.
2) She's a wolf and she wants to ensure survival under the guise of innocence by her self-possessed "this village can't win with a dead ordo Sally"
3) She's a foolish villager who has now left herself open for attacks at night.

Sally pretty much signed her own death warrant with that post anyway you look at it, but she wants us all believe we can't win the game as a village without her.

I'm inclined to agree with the first half of that last sentence. I'm not as sure of her three options regarding Sally's role. 1) Why speculate aloud about someone possibly being Gifted? 2) Possible, I guess. Not what I'd expect a Sallywolf to say, but the logic is sound. 3) Like Sally herself said, later on: an ordo dead by Night means no Gifted killed that same Night. An ordo is open for attacks at Night in any case.

If Sally really is innocent, gifted or ordo, there's a good chance the wolves will take advantage and get her in the Night. I doubt she'd be foolish enough to say anything if she was a gifted. I might think the same thing of her being a wolf if she had stopped after saying she had to withdraw on the 6th. The second half of her post looks awfully suspicious to me. Still, there's doubt, it's a bold move to make, especially so early on Day 1 and in such a small game.

This paragraph makes more or less sense. I don't agree about the second half of Sally's post looking suspicious, but I can see how it could look that way.

Originally Posted by Kit

What? Who does that? Mith and Nerwen both commented on this. And I'm inclined to agree this is pretty shifty work. If you're unsure of Sally and are only doing it as a mercy-killing why not wait until Day progresses? Very little had actually been said yet and he's already heading down this road. And more alarming he is only using her to hold a vote until he digs up someone else to vote for.

I can understand suspicions of Sally, but simply killing her because she's going to die seems pretty wolfish. It's almost like "she's admitted she's an ordo, best to get one villager out of the way by Day and another by Night."

I more or less agree with Kit in this.

If Bom is guilty he's trying to steer votes to Sally under the guise of a mercy kill to keep conversation of away from him and his cohorts. He's hardly started a bandwagon or anything, but a wolf could keep all eyes on Sally today so the real threat is forgotten. Notice he doesn't say he thinks she's a wolf or an innocent. If he's innocent he was very bold and foolish to suggest voting for Sally just because she had to be gone by the 6th.

So basically, you suspect that either Sally or Bom is evil, but not both?

Originally Posted by Sally

Ah, but you see, dear Kit, if the wolves try to kill me in the Night, they won't be targeting one of the gifteds. So not only have I now made the announcement of when we'll need to win the game by very clear, I've created possible confusion among the wolf pack.

A wolf pack which I now believe you might be a part of, precious.

And now, a list!

Possibly evil (by basis of reacting suspiciously to my post):
Kit
Bom (depending on whether or not he was entirely joking, and even then)
Nerwen (for defending-ish me far too quickly for Nerwen)

I'm not sure here. I'm inclined to find Sally innocent, but I'd be leaning that way on Kit too. As for Nerwen, I wouldn't call her post even defending-ish of Sally. To me, it looked careful and decidedly neutral.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

You failed to notice (or purposely ignored) the fact that one ordo can make a difference in the outcome simply by being alive.

I don't think that Sally would have endangered herself that much in her first post if she has a special role. However, I see what you mean about Bom. He's really pushing a sallywagon, or trying to.

I agree with all but the last sentence here. Pushing a Sallywagon? A single post declaring an intent to vote somebody if nothing better appears doesn't equal bandwagon in my book.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Kit is #2 on my suspision list, for saying that Bom is pushing a sallywagon and pushing it herself yet further.

I don't think Kit's reason for suspecting Bom was that he considered voting Sally, but the reasons he had for it (mainly the "mercy kill" idea).

Originally Posted by Galadriel

But no wolf will kill her after your post! That would be so obvious! The only explanation I could come up with is that you are a wolf who speaks while plotting who will be the first victim. And you're debating about Bom to make yourself look unconnected to him.

So in summary we have Nerwen and Shasta commenting on the issue while remaining neutral, Mith voicing slight suspicion on Bom, Kit suspecting both Sally and Bom are wolves but not together, and Galadriel more or less accusing both Bom and Kit, while Sally herself suspects both Kit and Bom. My brain hurts.


EDIT: x-ed with the lovely ladies Galadriel, Sally and Mith

[Nogrod]

Well not a very good weekend actually. But anyway. I'm now in and have read through the chatting.

Just a quick one for the deadline. Just check post #4 in this thread which has it in with capital letters that day one starts now. It has been sent four minutes before the exact deadline. Then just store into your minnd which the hour is, and you don't need dual-time clocks or anything of the sort.

I do know it is 3AM here - and that I will most probably vote a bit early as I need to wake up at decent hours tomorrow to go to hospital and have my operation-cut taken care of (I need to do that daily...).

Delving back into the thread now.

[Galadriel55]

Thank you for the clock suggestion!

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Could it be that all of extended Clan Nogrod have mixed up the midnights?

And Eomer and Legate?

There's just over 6 hours left. Incredible! There are hardly any WW-related posts. (That made me think: ww games are probably the only threds that are allowed to get chatty.)

Edit: xed with Nog and Greenie

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

There's just over 6 hours left. Incredible! There are hardly any WW-related posts. (That made me think: ww games are probably the only threds that are allowed to get chatty.)

I see what you mean! I suppose the first few posts of any game kind of have to be nonsense if there's nothing about the rules or something such that needs to be discussed. However, the amount of chatter is sometimes a bit too much. (Especially from the perspective of someone who's going to have to vote in an hour or so in order to get a decent night's sleep before work tomorrow..)

[Nogrod]

It also depends on a game. Sometimes Day1's are just more or less chat and a rushed last-minute vote (normally lynching an innocent as the wolves around the DL know where to steer it if they need to), but there have been also spectacular D1's where there has been multiple rows, built-up cases and at best beatufilly made wolf-lynchings in the ned of the Day.

This sadly seems to be one of the former kind... (and yes, it is partly my fault as well)

But don't worry G55, These hours from here (or starting at an hour from this) to around the DL are usually the busiest; that's called afternoon in Americas and late-evening / early night in Europe. So this will get a lot busier before the Day ends.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Thank you for the clock suggestion!



And Eomer and Legate?

[/B]

Only Eomer is out of that circle. There was a warning from Lommie that Legate might be a late starter on admin thread ..anyway academic now since some of them have arrived. So maybe the serious stuff will start to happen.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I agree with all but the last sentence here. Pushing a Sallywagon? A single post declaring an intent to vote somebody if nothing better appears doesn't equal bandwagon in my book.

Well, maybe I misinterpreted Bom's post, but he seemed to give the message "let's vote for Sally unless there's an obvious wolf, because she might drop out". Doesn't it sound more fishy when put that way?

Originally Posted by Greenie

...Galadriel more or less accusing both Bom and Kit...

Well, maybe not really accusing, but strongly suspecting and keeping an eye out. There still isn't much info to really base an accusation on, but enough to have a suspicion. If in my reply to Kit I made it sound like a direct accusation, I didn't intend to, and blame it on my little brother who was reading what I typed over my shoulder and kept shouting questions in my ear like "why are you talking about wolves?" and all kinds of other nonesense.

I still have the impression that Sally is innocent. Kit and Bom don't make a lot of sense to me. Bom - for reasons above, and Kit - for saying "Bom is up to something but I agree with him" in a less exaggerated form.

Now that I think about it more, it's unlikely that they both are baddies. Kit wouldn't set so many arguments against him (with which personally I agree) if he was her packmate. It's too much of a risk.

Edit: xed since my last post

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I agree with all but the last sentence here. Pushing a Sallywagon? A single post declaring an intent to vote somebody if nothing better appears doesn't equal bandwagon in my book.

It isn't a bandwagon, but he certainly pushed Sally to the front with his declaration (joke or not) to vote for Sally based on her second post. Like I said earlier this could be a way to get the village to look away from others and focus in on one person. It could also be a joke that no one got.

And Greenie you mentioned I suspect both Sally and Bom, but that I believe it's one or the other. I can't see any advantage for two wolves to be making a declaration that they'd be killed, modfired, withdrawn by the 6th AND to have a fellow wolf bring up the idea of killing them based on that.

I think Bom looks worse. No one has really spoken today and so little has any substance. If I could vote for everyone isn't being helpful or at least trying to add I'd vote for most everyone who has spoken. This quiet village is making it hard to formulate any real opinions. And for now I stand by mine.

People have said I look wolfish for what I've said about Sally. I'm grasping at straws to get the ball rolling, so whatever. I still don't know if I believe she's innocent. My biggest problem is she did this in-game rather than on the admin thread and she seems utterly self-possessed. If this game had a cobbler I'd say it was Sally. She claims her actions can confuse the wolves, but I see it can be confusing for the village too.

I doubt I'll vote for Sally today. I don't trust her, but Bom looks worse for his actions.

I will be leaving my house in two or three hours and I don't have any assurances I will be near a computer to vote closer to the DL. I'd love to see more, but if there's a flood of conversation I'll be just as lost as I am now when it's time for me to go for the day.

[satansaloser2005]

And now that I've sparked discussion, I think I'll vanish for a bit. I should be back in an hour or two, and then I'll be around until the end of the Day.

Do continue to be interesting while I'm gone, won't you?


X'd with Kit

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

And now that I've sparked discussion, I think I'll vanish for a bit. I should be back in an hour or two, and then I'll be around until the end of the Day.

Do continue to be interesting while I'm gone, won't you?

You sure like being the center of attention!

[Galadriel55]

Kit, I see what you mean about Sally being cobblerish - the "center of attention". But she does not sound like a wolf.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Well, maybe I misinterpreted Bom's post, but he seemed to give the message "let's vote for Sally unless there's an obvious wolf, because she might drop out". Doesn't it sound more fishy when put that way?

Of course it does. I don't know if we can talk of misinterpretation, in your case or in mine, but rather of differing interpretations. The way I read Bom's post, he was not necessarily suggesting others follow his course of action - indeed, he seemed to expect others to object to it - but rather just stating what he was going to do. Which of course doesn't mean what he was going to do wasn't fishy per se. Fishy and bandwagoning don't necessarily equal each other. Oh dear. I'm flip-flopping enough to make my sister proud.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Well, maybe not really accusing, but strongly suspecting and keeping an eye out. There still isn't much info to really base an accusation on, but enough to have a suspicion. If in my reply to Kit I made it sound like a direct accusation, I didn't intend to, and blame it on my little brother who was reading what I typed over my shoulder and kept shouting questions in my ear like "why are you talking about wolves?" and all kinds of other nonesense.

Yes, accusing was probably too forceful a word. Your suspicion, however, seemed rather stronger than, say, Mith's, which is why I applied a different term. (Also, I think little brothers are cute, but maybe that's because I've never had one. )


EDIT: x-ed with 2xGaladriel

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I think Bom looks worse. No one has really spoken today and so little has any substance. If I could vote for everyone isn't being helpful or at least trying to add I'd vote for most everyone who has spoken. This quiet village is making it hard to formulate any real opinions. And for now I stand by mine.

I doubt I'll vote for Sally today. I don't trust her, but Bom looks worse for his actions.
.

Not speaking at all is hardly helpful either. I would prefer a bit of chat to silence or even a lot of regurgitation. At least you get what someone says for themself rather than trying to look helpful but not actually saying anything.

I don't know what Sally is playing at though. It is ten days til she says she has to go and in a game this size it is unlikely to be an issue. And apart from the ethics of participating in a game knowing you may not be able to see it through, I can't see any benefit of drawing attention to it so far in advance. I may be being thick but I can't see it being a helpful tactic for any role we have in the game. A hunter needs to get themselves killed to fulfil their purpose but we don't have one and it would be impossible for a Hunter to be in a position to make a good call that early in the game.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You sure like being the center of attention!

Well yes, but I also hate wasted Day Ones, especially when I'm on a short leash time-wise. People are talking, and formulating ideas about what I meant, and generally leaving evidence for us to use later. I'd say that's far from cobblerish, dear. It's called being proactive.


To clarify, my point about Kit looking fishy is completely legit. Her posts smell funny to me.

I'm not willing to vote Bom toDay, but I'll be keeping an eye on him simply because I can.

Mith also looks strange, but it might just be the fact that she's trying to tear myself and my dark prince apart. Harrumph.

I'd have to consider everyone else further before voting them.

(I just realized it was a bit rude of me to not clarify my suspicions before I left, especially since the Finns and Co. likely will have to vote soon.)


Walking out the door now. Tick tock, little ones....

[A Little Green]

I'm off to bed pretty much now, meaning that I get to cast the first vote of the Day! I'm not sure about this, but it being the best shot I have,

++ Bom

I think I've explained enough in my previous posts, but in short - planning to vote Sally because of her "death wish" strikes me as an idea that benefits the baddies more than us.

[Mithalwen]

I look strange? How rude. But nevertheless I don't post pictures of myself online to prevent widespread trauma...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hullo all.

Looks like we have a careful village, with no-one really interested in throwing a cat among the pigeons. Even Nilp's fishing expedition is lacking in effect.

But I would not despair, and instead advise that one can't get something from nothing, so to speak: talk for the sake of it is just that, and unhelpful (to me, at least).

The discussion on the first day is rarely any use as it happens; its chief merit is as a record on which to look back. So to see all the usual hand-wringing about our effectiveness at this stage in the investigation is amusing and possibly telling.

[Mithalwen]

If there are no pigeons is there any point in throwing a cat? Time for a little drinkie

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

G55 has defended Sally about three times! Sally was also quick to suspect Kitanna once Kit had made a case against her. And that whole Ordo-claim - Sally always looks like a cobbler to me at the best of times.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

If there are no pigeons is there any point in throwing a cat? Time for a little drinkie

Overruled, Mith. There were pigeons and, what's more, the promise of pigeons yet to appear.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, I am here. Sorry for the late start, but I've had a lot to cope with (including sleeping for 13 hours tonight after two exhausting weeks and one night at the airport). But here I am and will try to make something out of the rest of toDay...

So, after the initial "lot of nonsense" stuff, the point where I think people are starting to become serious, and the things they say seeming to become worth something, comes about at the close to the first page. So let me comment on the few noteworthy things, and hopefully later post something about what I think about people this far:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

So we know for sure if we're still a struggling village looking to kill some wolves by the 6th Sally is out. Why bother telling us this? If she's an ordo she can't protect, dream of, or kill anyone. She can only vote. Of course we're out one vote which isn't good, but at this point in the game why bother saying anything?

I don't see a problem with Sally saying that, since I have been at some point also unsure about my participation in the future, and if I was, I would see no problem in saying that, regardless of my role. So I don't see it a problem.

What TomBom said about that, like Kitanna pointed out, is a bit suspicious, but then again, who knows - he is a newbie and who knows what he thinks. Kitanna might also be a Wolf herself and trying to point out a target for the village to lynch (be it Sally or Tom).

Of the people, if I should name some who are standing out, Gal looks quite, well, reasonable. All her posts this far I like. Of course, she might be just a very well-polished Wolf. But given that there is no back-reference since this is her first game, I am not going to think that suspicious for now, but take it as it is - seeming well.

I will post my thoughts about others further on...

EDIT: x-posted with the Knight in Warg armour (for newbies: Eomer) since his apperance, and further...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I look strange? How rude. But nevertheless I don't post pictures of myself online to prevent widespread trauma...

Figuratively speaking, of course, dear one.

And I repeat the part where Mith is guilty by reason of insanity. Are you trying to make some sort of point here? (If I wasn't on my phone, I'd post a picture of me looking all sweet and innocent. As it is, I'm too lazy.)

My plans seem to have changed; I'll be around for another half hour. I think I'll poke about.


X'd since the appearance of Eomer

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The jump on Bom is bewildering.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

The jump on Bom is bewildering.

I know, right? I could understand a bit of suspicion (as so many jokes are simply smoke screens for evil) but to vote him based on so little? I'm unimpressed.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

General list:

Bom Tombadillo - might be trying to make an easy lynch out of sally, but then again, he is a newbie, who knows how his thought processes go. Therefore, he will get a newbie pass from me toDay.
Nogrod - I don't have clear idea about him yet, hope to see more posts from him.
Shasta - has not contributed much anything to base judgement upon.
Kitanna - raising suspicions with, in my opinion, grounds which are not really worth of suspicion, but then again, maybe she just has bad standards for suspecting people and not meaning evil intentionally.
G55 - reasonable this far, and in any case, also a newbie pass for her toDay.
Sally - I don't see her suspicious. I don't have much more info on her, though, but I certainly wouldn't suspect her based on what several others seem to.
Eomer - despite appearing, didn't say anything worth much. I think that's a problem of rather many people this far.
Nerwen - questionmark. Thoughtful as usual, but of course there might be some sinister thoughts behind that mask, so who knows.
Loslote - nothing to base any thoughts on, again one of those I would like to see more from.
Greenie - had posted a nice summary, but too long. For some reason, I get uneasy feeling from her, but hard to say.
Lommy - not appeared yet
Nilp - this far only schizophrenic stuff, so that's not worth much
Mithalwen - she had a few times been commenting on suspicions raised by confirming them (like "yes, I agree sally is odd" and "TomBom is strange - he does not know rules"-see below), which might be a typical Wolfy attitude (i.e. you are picking on suspicions which are lying around to simply blend with the crowd) and she had backed away from questioning Shasta, which might be being a bit of "Ms. Agreeable" - but of course, maybe it was also just related to the amount of sleep/coffee/time/whatever she had and nothing was intended by it. Half of her posts are "administratory" anyway and without much content (referring to what is the time, who is posting and such), so it's hard to tell.

All in all, I don't have any very strong suspect this far. I at most know people I know I don't want to vote (at least now), which is also good by itself. But I will read and think.

Random question:

Originally Posted by Mith

Interesting - I usually think not knowing the rules is suspicious - which mean Bom is looking interesting ... rule query, first post and this offer to more or less "mercy lynch" Sally.

Why do you think not knowing the rules is suspicious? I would think the opposite - WWs especially really have to read the rules, so that they can operate properly. (Although, in my opinion, everybody should read the rules carefully to be able to operate properly in his or her own role - even ordos, so that they can judge well what's going on and what are the options... but for WWs and Gifteds it is necessary, because e.g. you cannot play a Ranger without knowing how this role works, and a Wolf should know that as well, so that they know how they should plan their Night-kills in regards to there being other roles which can hinder them and so on...)

[Thinlómien]

Hiya, sorry for the late appearance but I first overslept, then attended a planned meeting and lastly got ambushed by unexpected complications, however I'm now here and have read the thread. I have very little to say atm, I'm very confused and it's way too long since I last played for my brain to be properly on the ww mode. Maybe I will make a list to clarify my thoughts...

[Nogrod]

Sorry about my disappearance but I have been talking to the phone / skype the last two hours (we have some unhappy things going on here within my family - that's the reason I said it was not such a good weekend, but enough of that as it is not WW-relatd, just for you to know why I have been a bit erratic toDay).

Before this calling-round began I was about to post that neither Sally or Bom look that suspicious to me but that especially those who are trying to "confirm them" as lynch candidates (not especially those who notice something first, but those supporting without a lot to add themselves) are the ones I'd rather vote for. I'll have to check that, as to who did what back there.

On another quick note. As I just skimmed through what had happened the last I find it odd Greenie makes some sense saying that what Bom said looked more like "this is what I'm going to do unless there is a better option" and not "there is our wolf, let's lynch her together now". But then she went on and voted for him.

I have to check that original by Bom as well as a few others untill I say more or make any more observations (getting the facts straight first).

[Mithalwen]

[QUOTE=Legate of Amon Lanc;657503]General list:

Why do you think not knowing the rules is suspicious? I would think the opposite - WWs especially really have to read the rules, so that they can operate properly. QUOTE]

Well for exactly that reason of course!!! So if you make a show of not knowing the rules I think it may be a wolf trying to created the impression of innocence "I don't know hte rules so I can't be anyone important". It proved ot be the case a few times back in the day so it was to me worth commenting on..it isn't a sophisticated strategy I admit.. but at that stage of the day there wasn't an awful lot to go on.

As for Shasta - the opening post was so odd I felt there had to be some history so I asked and was satisfied, for the time being. So far so werewolf.......

[Kitanna]

I was prepared to leave the Sally suspicions alone. Intentionally I was confused and suspicious that in her second post she said she'd have to withdraw on the 6th. It seemed too early and inappropriate for that. I outlined some of the ideas on had on the subject. I focused on Bom because he seemed eager to be rid of Sally, not because she was suspicious but because of what she had said. This of course made Sally look more innocent and cast Bom in a negative light.

The more Sally speaks though, the more I wonder. She's just rambled for a lot of posts.

Ah, but you see, dear Kit, if the wolves try to kill me in the Night, they won't be targeting one of the gifteds. So not only have I now made the announcement of when we'll need to win the game by very clear, I've created possible confusion among the wolf pack.

No it doesn't. I'd say this creates more confusion in the village. If you are innocent then they either A) attack you to lessen the innocent votes or B) Leave you be. Saying you have to withdraw doesn't create too much confusion for them. The village likewise has the option to A) Lynch you or B) Let you live. Unlike the wolves we can't be sure if you're what you say.

I see it as more you're trying to confuse us. You've revealed yourself as an ordo, people rarely believe that. The only way we can be sure is if you die or the seer dreams of you and clears you. A seer reveal now would be reckless to say the least...and back to my point. You want us to take your word by saying how important you are to the winning effort, but what have you done to help?

There are only eight hours left in the Day, people! Let's get cracking!

Yes..let's...

DL is in about seven hours, my good lad....y.

Well yes, but I also hate wasted Day Ones, especially when I'm on a short leash time-wise. People are talking, and formulating ideas about what I meant, and generally leaving evidence for us to use later. I'd say that's far from cobblerish, dear. It's called being proactive.

Sounds cobberlish to me. But cobberlish doesn't matter seeing as we have none in the game.

To clarify, my point about Kit looking fishy is completely legit. Her posts smell funny to me.

How is that legit? Most posts I've seen are fishy and that includes yours. That doesn't clarify anything.

Originally Posted by Nog

Before this calling-round began I was about to post that neither Sally or Bom look that suspicious to me but that especially those who are trying to "confirm them" as lynch candidates (not especially those who notice something first, but those supporting without a lot to add themselves) are the ones I'd rather vote for. I'll have to check that, as to who did what back there.

I am fully ready to risk my life because the more I look at Sally the more I think she's up to no good. She's calling for talk, for ideas, but isn't providing any, rather she's hiding behind random accusations and silly posts. Her second post is all too convenient for me to accept as innocent. Intentionally it meant very little to me, but then when I reread the thread I started to wonder. Nothing Sally has said makes me think she's any less suspicious. I realize being so foolish and bold will probably get me killed. It's a risk I'm willing to take. If Sally is innocent I'll eat my own hat.

[Nogrod]

Okay. That Bom's post (#26) is an interesting case indeed.

First there is this joke about the first three posters being naturally the werewolves (including himself, with Nilp and Sally) - when did this folklore went astray? I think the original claim was that a werewolves will post within the first ones as they're happy to play and get involved (which made sense, at least back then), then it knid of turned into a ww being amidst the first three and / or that the first poster is a ww... Well this version of Bom's is new to me, getting ever farther from something that originally had an idea.

Be the history of the saying what it may, the point here is he starts with this joking mode (including himself as a wolf).

Then he makes the clause: if there are retrackies, he will vote for "deatwish!Sally, until such time as further evidence is presented."

Now this to me looks more like innocent talk (added with the beginning-joke) than crafty wolvery.

But then he goes on to slightly "improve" his case against Sally with his interesting take on logic which I find hard to interpret as to whether it is in a total joke mode or is he actually trying to persuade people with it?


All in all, I'm still reluctant to vote for Bom just for that, and because this is his first/second game(?).

If there is no reaally suspicious person to vote I'd rather go to those who try to be really neat and unprovoking, careful, easy, non-commitant, unnoticed, low, behind a mask, only bantering... whatever.