How it should have been...Purist universe.

[Lush]

What exactly does the term <I>rights</I> mean? I know it means nothing to me. "Rights" is something too PC, too obscure, and certainly too trite. As a woman, I want to be treated like a human being. I want to be protected and loved by the men in my life, but never do I wish to be the silent beauty in the corner, smothered in loving care. If I must wait, I will wait, but retain the right to throw myself in the path of nine extremely tempremental Nazgul, if I so choose. <BR>I'm not up there burning my bra (you just DON'T burn langerie by La Perla, let me tell you), and screaming and banging on the pots and pans for some elusive "rights." I just want to live my life as I see fit. And this is why I appreciated what PJ did in terms of Arwen's character. And as for the minor problem of Elrond not letting her out of Rivendell, well, let us not be naive. The art of sneaking out to undertake a dangerous mission with one's stubbly-cheeked lover was surely perfected by then! <BR>Really, I think some of you guys may have enjoyed meeting the Arwen as she was in the movie! A female both fiery, and soothing, now that is rare indeed! I'm one, but I'm eternally unavailable to most. <p>[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: Lush ]

[Amaranth Sorrel]

Well said Lush! I couldn'ta said it better myself.<BR>As for the 'not being let out of Rivendell' that is actually a load of rubbish, because infact Arwen didn't always live in Rivendell. People seem to be forgetting the fact that for a long time, Arwen lived with her mother and mothers kin in Lórien.

[Mankáno]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lush:<BR><STRONG>What exactly does the term <I>rights</I> mean? I know it means nothing to me. "Rights" is something too PC, too obscure, and certainly too trite. As a woman, I want to be treated like a human being. I want to be protected and loved by the men in my life, but never do I wish to be the silent beauty in the corner, smothered in loving care. If I must wait, I will wait, but retain the right to throw myself in the path of nine extremely tempremental Nazgul, if I so choose. <BR>I'm not up there burning my bra (you just DON'T burn langerie by La Perla, let me tell you), and screaming and banging on the pots and pans for some elusive "rights." I just want to live my life as I see fit. And this is why I appreciated what PJ did in terms of Arwen's character. And as for the minor problem of Elrond not letting her out of Rivendell, well, let us not be naive. The art of sneaking out to undertake a dangerous mission with one's stubbly-cheeked lover was surely perfected by then! <BR>Really, I think some of you guys may have enjoyed meeting the Arwen as she was in the movie! A female both fiery, and soothing, now that is rare indeed! I'm one, but I'm eternally unavailable to most. <P>[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: Lush ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well Lush, Arwen might have the feminist right to be a warrior and she can sneak out of Rivendell, but that's NOT Arwen, that's not Lord of the Rings.<P>If Peter Jackson wanted to portrait women's independence and right, he didn't choose the right movie.<P>You know, what you think, what I think, or what PJ thinks doesn't matter, it was what Tolkien thought what is important. The movie is suppose to be based on Tolkien's work and the role given to Arwen is in open contradiction to the book an Arwen's character. If you don't like Arwen being pasive, too bad, but that's what she is. For me the change in Arwen was as bad as if they had portrayed Sam as evil.<P>And Amaranth, yes, Arwen lived in Lorien for a long time, she met Aragorn there and it was there where they got engaged, but she was called to Rivendell when roads become more dangerous and she didn't adventure out of Rivendell until Sauron was defeated, not even Elrond would live Rivendell until the end.

[Frahhamn]

yeah. it just wasn't the book. yay.

[Lush]

Well, bah humbug to you too. It was an interpretation of the book, and it doesn't take away from the original concept at all, so why be upset? Really, some of you guys must lighten up a tad (and I thought PMS was bad enough, but no, there is nothing like a disgruntled Tolkien reader ). <BR>Speaking of lightening up; I head that Chris Tolkien actually disowned someone because of their association with the film. Ack.

[Rinberethial Bloom]

That Gandalfs Diary link was sooooo funny!!! still laughing. They should make a movie like that but then again it'd probly offend way too many people

[Amaranth Sorrel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mankáno:<BR><STRONG><P>And Amaranth, yes, Arwen lived in Lorien for a long time, she met Aragorn there and it was there where they got engaged, but she was called to Rivendell when roads become more dangerous and she didn't adventure out of Rivendell until Sauron was defeated, not even Elrond would live Rivendell until the end.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually she first met Aragorn in Rivendell, they became engaged in Lórien, yes, but they met in Rivendell.

As much as I would have liked to have seen a longer, more complete version of the film, I don't think that the general public has the patience to sit through more than 3-4 hours of movie. If a movie doesn't appeal to the general public and only a handful of people go to see it, then the producers of that film will lose all of the money that they put in to make that movie and there aren't many people who are willing to make a film to just to create a beautiful piece of cinematic art - as jaded as this sounds, they're primarily in it for the money.

[Glenethor]

Greets,<P>Well, they don't have to worry about that now. FoTR has made a profit worldwide. As a 'quasi-purist' I thought the Arwen scene at the Bruinen to be wrong, but it was still a dramatic scene. Loved when the fjord came down on the Nazgul. That was cool. If you watch closely, the first two Nazgul who get swamped by the water don't just get swept away. They get pulverized.<P>As for Elrond, I am probably the only person I know who hasn't seen 'The Matrix' so Weaving's portrayal was not contaminated with associations to his earlier character. I've wanted to see this movie, and I will definitely see it before the sequel comes out. <P>I certainly hope I don't see Arwen in the scene with Merry and Eowyn against the Witch-King.. The thing is, Jackson <I>is</I> paying attention to fans' opinions, and since some of the financial risk has been mitigated, I think (and hope) that he will be more true to the books.<P>Look: there was no way on earth that he was going to please everyone. No way. I loved the first movie, but I am well aware that I could be disappointed by the last two. I doubt I will be, but there is always the chance.<P>I thought the change of location for the 'It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance!' discussion between Frodo and Gandalf was appropriate. Thinking back to what happened in September, and what is happening now in the world, and what may happen in the next couple of years, that scene hit me right between the eyes. They are discussing Destiny, and then, a little while later, Gandalf falls. That change from the text works for me; The changes to Boromir's death scene works for me;<P>Here is what didn't:<P>Arwen at the fjord; I don't want to see 'Arwen: Warrior Princess' in the rest of the story.<P>The chance meeting between Frodo and Sam with Merry and Pippin; then again, if fulfilling Destiny is one of the themes of the LoTR, this is consistent with that. Merry and Pippin were <I>meant</I> to bump into them at just that moment. I know I am stretching that a little, but I am a generous person by nature.<BR>The meeting with Strider: Bad editing. Will hopefully be fixed in the DVD.<P>The pacing. It is really impossible to determine how much time is passing. This is where Jackson fails, IMO. When we get to Rivendell, we don't know if Bilbo is so much older because of time passing, or whether he aged overnight when he gave up the ring.<P>Finally, I didn't appreciate (although I laughed with most everyone else) Gimli bellowing 'NO ONE TOSSES A DWARF!' in a scene that had no business introducing a bit of levity; As well, I found Aragorn's line 'Let's hunt some Orc' and Gimli's bellowed 'YEESSSSSS!' to be a bit too Hollywood. It jarred me out of the spell.<P>All I can say is, I hope I don't join the minority of people who hate Jackson's vision in the next two films.<P>Pax,<P>Glenethor

[MenRWeak]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Glenethor:<BR><STRONG><BR>All I can say is, I hope I don't join the minority of people who hate Jackson's vision in the next two films.<P>Pax,<P>Glenethor</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>These folks are forming a club and are already preparing their thesis entitled, "The Two Towers will stink and so will The Return of the King...blah,blah,blah...and I knew they were going to be terrible and I shouldn't have watched them but I did anyway".<P>Only those whose dissertations with the most gripes and complete absence of any redeeming features for the upcoming films will be accepted into the Clan of the Cave Purists.

[Glenethor]

You are, unfortunately, probably right. As I've said numerous times, I really feel sad for the people who loathe Jackson's FoTR. Really, I do. I am not being sarcastic, ironic, gloating, or anything else when I say that. I haven't been as emotionally moved by a film in a long, long, time. Maybe, never. What shines through for me is the heart and soul of everyone. I think everyone knew they would never do anything as important in their lives, so they put everything they had into it.<P>I am ambivalent about Saruman's expanded role, but Christopher Lee must've said 'give me more to work with.'<P>And the scene where he is controlling the weather on Cahadhras...he is only substituted for Sauron..."His arm has grown long if he can fling all this snow so far south!" "His arm has grown long." So, it wasn't as if weather control was a novel concept introduced by Jackson.<P>Pax,<P>Glenethor