Error in The Fellowship of the Ring book regarding boats - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Knight of Gondor · 10-25-2002, 08:50 PM

According to one of the Elves as the Fellowship is making ready their departure, the boats will "Not sink, lade them you will" but later, indeed just a few short pages later, Gimli is mourning taking leave of Lorien, and then he says "But talk no more of it. Look to the boat! She is too low in the water with all this baggage, and the Great River is swift. I do not wish to drown my grief in cold water."

Is this not incongrous, friends?

Diamond18 · 10-25-2002, 09:07 PM

I think Gimli is just saying something to avoid talking any more about his feelings for Galadriel. The boats weren't really going to sink.

akhtene · 10-25-2002, 10:28 PM

Even if the boats weren't actually going to sink, it was perhaps possible to get a "boatful" of river water on a swift and rough river. Not a pleasant experience, though quite safe. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Tarthang · 10-25-2002, 11:13 PM

While the boats of Lothlorien may be unsinkable, nothing is mentioned as to wether or not they may be capsized.

So perhaps Gimli is merely concerned about an unplanned dunking, through mis-management of the vessel while in rough waters.

Tigerlily Gamgee · 10-25-2002, 11:20 PM

Wasn't the Titanic supposed to be unsinkable too???
If you have a fear of something you will still be afraid no matter how many times people tell you it's safe.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 10-26-2002, 04:08 AM

Ah, but you see Harland and Wolff didn't employ Elven craftsmen. Perhaps that's where they went wrong. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Saurreg · 10-26-2002, 07:34 AM

The Sil stated that the dwarves were afraid of the sea and dreaded its sound. Perhaps Gimli was nervous, especially when the craft he was sitting it was so small and narrow.

Matthew2754 · 10-26-2002, 09:30 AM

Yeah, i dont think these boats were actually going to sink just from burden. Perhaps an attack but not because of weight. Gimli was just being wishy-washy (for a dwarf). Just because Gimli was afraid the boats would sink does not mean they will. I bet the Brandybucks would like some boats like that. Unsinkable. Poor Leonardo.

Nar · 10-26-2002, 09:46 AM

An unsinkable boat can still capsize, and you end up in the river all the same. 'But we didn't sink, we merely capsized, so that's all right,' Gimli'd be thinking as he went down for the third time. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Unfortunately, the builders of the Titanic hired dark elves to do their unsinkability assessments.

Helkasir · 10-26-2002, 11:16 AM

It may be a bit of a contradiction, but we're talking about a world that doesn't quite obey the same laws of physics as we do, so the rules are different.

Kalimac · 10-26-2002, 01:37 PM

The fact that it's Gimli who's worried makes me inclined to believe that he was just being nervous; there's the previously-mentioned fact that Dwarves (like hobbits) don't seem to be big fans of water travel, and there's also the fact that Gimli is naturally inclined to mistrust Elves; his "Welcome to Lorien" was probably a rather unnerving experience. Yes, he did fall in love with Galadriel, but that doesn't mean he's going to shake all his convictions about the innate slipperiness of Elvish promises all in an instant (it takes him till TTT, after all, before he starts getting truly friendly with Legolas). Probably the only way he'd be inclined to have faith in the boats is if he was told that Galadriel made them personally.

VanimaEdhel · 10-27-2002, 05:19 PM

And, it was Gimli's way of covering up. You know how, when you are caught at something (Gimli at his new-found admiration of Galadriel, an *gasp* Elf), you find an excuse? Well, that is was Gimli was doing. It was sort of like he was saying, "Hmm...well...darn...caught me...but look! We must be off! Now! Okay, had a nice stay and all, but, I must be off now...*clears throat nervously*". And he was probably nervous about water, like many others have suggested...

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]

10-25-2002, 08:50 PM	#1
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	Error in The Fellowship of the Ring book regarding boats According to one of the Elves as the Fellowship is making ready their departure, the boats will "Not sink, lade them you will" but later, indeed just a few short pages later, Gimli is mourning taking leave of Lorien, and then he says "But talk no more of it. Look to the boat! She is too low in the water with all this baggage, and the Great River is swift. I do not wish to drown my grief in cold water." Is this not incongrous, friends? __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

10-25-2002, 09:07 PM	#2
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,493	I think Gimli is just saying something to avoid talking any more about his feelings for Galadriel. The boats weren't really going to sink. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

10-25-2002, 10:28 PM	#3
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 392	Even if the boats weren't actually going to sink, it was perhaps possible to get a "boatful" of river water on a swift and rough river. Not a pleasant experience, though quite safe. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

10-25-2002, 11:20 PM	#5
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,056	Wasn't the Titanic supposed to be unsinkable too??? If you have a fear of something you will still be afraid no matter how many times people tell you it's safe. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

10-26-2002, 04:08 AM	#6
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,184	Ah, but you see Harland and Wolff didn't employ Elven craftsmen. Perhaps that's where they went wrong. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

10-25-2002, 11:13 PM	#4
Tarthang Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Paths of the Dead Posts: 108	While the boats of Lothlorien may be unsinkable, nothing is mentioned as to wether or not they may be capsized. So perhaps Gimli is merely concerned about an unplanned dunking, through mis-management of the vessel while in rough waters.

10-26-2002, 07:34 AM	#7
Saurreg Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In self imposed exile... Posts: 471	The Sil stated that the dwarves were afraid of the sea and dreaded its sound. Perhaps Gimli was nervous, especially when the craft he was sitting it was so small and narrow. __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. " ~Voltaire

10-26-2002, 09:30 AM	#8
Matthew2754 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 22	Yeah, i dont think these boats were actually going to sink just from burden. Perhaps an attack but not because of weight. Gimli was just being wishy-washy (for a dwarf). Just because Gimli was afraid the boats would sink does not mean they will. I bet the Brandybucks would like some boats like that. Unsinkable. Poor Leonardo.

10-26-2002, 09:46 AM	#9
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	An unsinkable boat can still capsize, and you end up in the river all the same. 'But we didn't sink, we merely capsized, so that's all right,' Gimli'd be thinking as he went down for the third time. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Unfortunately, the builders of the Titanic hired dark elves to do their unsinkability assessments.

10-26-2002, 11:16 AM	#10
Helkasir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North of the Iron Hills Posts: 89	It may be a bit of a contradiction, but we're talking about a world that doesn't quite obey the same laws of physics as we do, so the rules are different. __________________ "Onen i-Estal Edain, u-chebin estel anim."

10-26-2002, 01:37 PM	#11
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	The fact that it's Gimli who's worried makes me inclined to believe that he was just being nervous; there's the previously-mentioned fact that Dwarves (like hobbits) don't seem to be big fans of water travel, and there's also the fact that Gimli is naturally inclined to mistrust Elves; his "Welcome to Lorien" was probably a rather unnerving experience. Yes, he did fall in love with Galadriel, but that doesn't mean he's going to shake all his convictions about the innate slipperiness of Elvish promises all in an instant (it takes him till TTT, after all, before he starts getting truly friendly with Legolas). Probably the only way he'd be inclined to have faith in the boats is if he was told that Galadriel made them personally. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

10-27-2002, 05:19 PM	#12
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,463	And, it was Gimli's way of covering up. You know how, when you are caught at something (Gimli at his new-found admiration of Galadriel, an gasp Elf), you find an excuse? Well, that is was Gimli was doing. It was sort of like he was saying, "Hmm...well...darn...caught me...but look! We must be off! Now! Okay, had a nice stay and all, but, I must be off now...clears throat nervously". And he was probably nervous about water, like many others have suggested... [ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ] __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes