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Old 05-09-2006, 04:32 AM   #3081
Kath
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And we are starting at 10pm GMT on Thursday? I take it that will be a Night phase?
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Old 05-09-2006, 04:43 AM   #3082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond18
the chart says that Eonwe is Nog and mine's son, when it should be Lhuna as our daughter. They need to be swapped.
Indeed we do. For I come from the next village over, where my widowed mother lives. The place if veritably overrun by my kith and kin, so I bought this homestead and mover here.

Which bring me to another question: Lhuna, where shall we be living now that we have tied the knot? My place is a bit far in the woods, though it'll need to be looked after. We could sell it, and move in to town, of we could use it as a summer house deal. What say you? Put forth all the prudence of a good wife in this matter, for I leave it in your hands.
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Old 05-09-2006, 06:40 AM   #3083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D18
Which is why I'm making clear my intentions (and so far as I know right now, Nog's and Firefoot's) to exhibit family voting behavior on Day 1 -- now before any roles are handed out. I realize that continuing seriously in such a vein past Day 1 would be disregarding the actual game of werewolf -- but Day 1 is Day 1 and the dynamics are different. People often stumble around criticizing other people's game styles, for lack of anything better to do, and only by luck are actual werecreatures caught.
Day 1s are underrated. Personally, I rather enjoy them.

And I suspect that, in this game, there will be more than enough to talk about (and to base a vote on) on Day 1- and not just the banter.
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Old 05-09-2006, 07:26 AM   #3084
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Quote:
And I suspect that, in this game, there will be more than enough to talk about (and to base a vote on) on Day 1- and not just the banter.
Indeed. I'm all prepared to shoot holes in theories. (It's what I do best you know.) But I'm also ready to put forth some form of my own. Honestly, looking at the players, meaningless banter will be almost wholly unnecessary.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:18 AM   #3085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man
Day 1s are underrated. Personally, I rather enjoy them.

And I suspect that, in this game, there will be more than enough to talk about (and to base a vote on) on Day 1- and not just the banter.
I totally agree with you - and Roa too.

In most games I have played, we villagers have managed to lynch a wolf (or whatever werecreature) on dAY1! There have been different reasons for the success, but anyhow.
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Old 05-09-2006, 01:45 PM   #3086
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It seems to me as though "Day 1" decisions will be based solely on happensay and witless suspicion. Or, perhaps, on a small bit of RPing on what your "character" would say, as they appear within their roles of village idiots. Any wolfing being done would likely be coincidence. It is important in that it is the start and assists in the evolution of fact, but it is perhaps not, in and of itself, useful. Unless, of course, the wolves lack the pair of brain cells to bump together in order to rationalize the logistics of witholding information.

Beyond this. Good day and welcome the morrow. Happy Hunting, you innocents. I predict that, with a little skill and cunning, evil will triumph in the coming days.
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Old 05-09-2006, 02:13 PM   #3087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
It seems to me as though "Day 1" decisions will be based solely on happensay and witless suspicion. Or, perhaps, on a small bit of RPing on what your "character" would say, as they appear within their roles of village idiots. Any wolfing being done would likely be coincidence.
It looks as if Loki's played before.

Yes, as often as not, that is how it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpM
Day 1s are underrated. Personally, I rather enjoy them.
I have a love/hate relationship with them. I like them because everyone is loosening up and joking around, but I hate them because they are so perplexing.
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Old 05-09-2006, 02:18 PM   #3088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Beyond this. Good day and welcome the morrow. Happy Hunting, you innocents. I predict that, with a little skill and cunning, evil will triumph in the coming days.
Are you sure, you are willing to give this weapon to the rampant-running and frustrated crowd of villagers in the end of DAY1?

Just a warm welcome to the game Loki. You seem to have some attitude and a daring mind! Good sporting.
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Old 05-09-2006, 02:50 PM   #3089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
In most games I have played, we villagers have managed to lynch a wolf (or whatever werecreature) on dAY1! There have been different reasons for the success, but anyhow.
Ever heard of "dumb luck"?

Just kidding...

But, mind you, I'm with Nilp and others of his ilk who do not take Day 1s seriously. I'm also not playing, so I get to sit in the audience munching popcorn and shouting "it's so OBVIOUS that X is guilty" at the players.
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Old 05-09-2006, 02:55 PM   #3090
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Lmp!

I just checked the rules today, and would like to ask two questions. (If these are already answered, please just anyone correct me - and I'll find those answers out myself, so no need for anyone to go on "working" because of my possible unattentiviness)

1) The rules say, that the gifteds know the GW - and that they can PM to the GW, as the GW can PM to the gifteds. And then it's said, that the GW can reveal a gifted, who the other gifteds are. So can the gifteds also PM each other, if they know them? And if yes, is there a restriction in PM'ing, if a gifted becomes degifted, or in the end a wolf? It could add some more spice (is that needed?) to GW's game to think, whether to reveal the status changes to the gifteds - and possibly making them more powerful in the game at least for some time, to counter the head-start of the wolves? Who knows...

EDIT: What I meant: the gifteds are in a sense expendables to the GW - if they just reveal their knowledge to the general audience / fellow gifteds before they die. So the actual person being the gifted is not so important... but the common knowledge of, at least of someone fallen to the dark side, could be important (well, of course the malignant forces might make a counter claim - and in the game, where identities change, that could be more wise than in a normal game, where the truth would turn out the next day).

2) The rules say, that the lynched or killed persons previous roles will not be revealed at the death. But are their current roles revealed? I think that revealing the previous roles is not necessary, but revealing the current one is.

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Old 05-09-2006, 03:09 PM   #3091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formendacil
Ever heard of "dumb luck"?
Just kidding...
But, mind you, I'm with Nilp and others of his ilk who do not take Day 1s seriously. I'm also not playing, so I get to sit in the audience munching popcorn and shouting "it's so OBVIOUS that X is guilty" at the players.
I don't think, that should be taken as "just kidding". I know it myself, that we have had lots of luck too. That's why I said:
Quote:
There have been different reasons for the success, but anyhow.
But as I have stated in many earlier games (and gotten almost lynched because of it a couple of times), if there are no other good reasons to vote for someone, I'll vote for the non-posters or just nonsense-posters the first day. But what then makes posting nonsense, well don't ask me...

Anyhow, people who just want to make DAY1 a "slipping under the radar-day" annoy me. If you're in a game, you should also play... It's not fair that some people just ride along, not being suspectible enough to be lynched because of inadequate posting. Who would those people be able to jump on to, if everyone followed their example?

Ok. We continue with this the Day1...
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:10 PM   #3092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man
Day 1s are underrated. Personally, I rather enjoy them.

And I suspect that, in this game, there will be more than enough to talk about (and to base a vote on) on Day 1- and not just the banter.
Oh I don't disagree with you, SpM. What I disagree with is anyone who jumps to attack anyone who doesn't hold the same opinions about how to play. I've been attacked for "meaningless banter" on Day 1 and it left a bad taste in my mouth. But I'm determined to not let it stop me from taking advantage of the unique opportunity Day 1 affords for being a bit looser. Especially in this village, when the character roles are more complicated and detailed than ever before, providing more opportunity to actually use them.

Besides, many a secret plot can be hidden in Day 1, only to be revealed in later Days. We don't all have to play like, say, Nogrod or Roa, to be playing the game "right." In fact, I'm not sure there is a well defined "right" and "wrong" way to play as long as you're into whatever your chosen style is. (That is it say, so long as you don't just neglect the game altogether and suffer mod fire expulsion.)

In short, I don't hate Day 1, and I think it's silly to hate the way other people approach Day 1 if it isn't the way you do it. If everyone played the same way, it would be categorically boring.
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:15 PM   #3093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond18
In short, I don't hate Day 1, and I think it's silly to hate the way other people approach Day 1 if it isn't the way you do it. If everyone played the same way, it would be categorically boring.
I do agree with you, but for one point. If all the people play posting just nonsense or non-post game the day1, it's a catastrophe for the villagers (well I've never been anything bad, so I don't actually know, how much fun to them it might be). That is one thing I wish to "hate" about other people. That doesn't help the villagers, but only werecreatures...

Although I admit the fun-part of it. And would like to enjoy some of it myself in this game... as the roles really give us the opportunity.
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:20 PM   #3094
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There are a few flaws to be exploited in the game. I'm loathe to point them out, however, because I am not yet aware which side I will be playing for.

Quote:
Are you sure, you are willing to give this weapon to the rampant-running and frustrated crowd of villagers in the end of DAY1?
My analysis of game mechanics and the possible exploitation of thus is the least of my worries. I'm making my honest prediction upon the present instance of the rules. Regardless, this is completely out of context. Anyone who took OOC information into the game would be "cheating."

Eonwe: No, but I've had a certain friend rattle on endlessly about the excitement involved, and the rules explained numerous times.
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:29 PM   #3095
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I dislike the label of "nonsense", "meaningless", and "substanceless" that gets tagged on to any post which isn't, say, a deep analysis or which contains definite opinions about other players or a theory about how everyone should be behaving. I think that there's rather a lot more meaning in much of what is deemed "meaningless" than a lot of people think -- and also it's unfair on Day 1 when there is no voting record or death count to work off of, to expect everyone to come up with brilliant theories, etc.

If everyone just spent the entire day roleplaying, we wouldn't get anywhere, but again, I said that the game wouldn't work if everyone played the exact same way. So we need the mix of loud to quiet to serious to playful to actually get things rolling. And by quiet I just mean "relatively quiet" instead of not-involved quiet. Remember, it's a game of strategy and everyone has a different strategy. Even amongst the Ordos, there are varied opinions on how to stay alive both Day and Night.

Anyway, I dislike the idea of voting for someone just because their playing style is different. But in the end, it's your vote and your decision how to wield it. I just dislike the intimidation factor of saying, "If you don't play such and such way, I will do my best to rid the game of you and your ilk."
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:31 PM   #3096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Anyone who took OOC information into the game would be "cheating."
Even though you are right on this last one, from the moral point of view, it has been a number of times, when these matters have decided the result of the game...

In the last game I played, I was so stupid as to tell openly, I would be very badly available for the next 5-7 hours. Quite immediately the goose-Spm and the duck-Kath lynched me and won the game just by that.

So it's not so gentlemanlike as you might think...

WW-game reminds me of different multinational companies fighting each other - or then people in extremely abnormal situations fighting for their lives. It's sad somehow, but fun as long as it is a "game only"-stuff.

And what comes to your analysis, I'm afraid that I share your concern here and believe the EW-side has the upper hand, but then again, I kind of trust lmp's dry-runs so much as to wish to see, how it actually goes. People, after all, don't always act to the most rational way you would predict (the economists are just freaked out by peoples actual behaviour!)...
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:33 PM   #3097
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Quote:
In the last game I played, I was so stupid as to tell openly, I would be very badly available for the next 5-7 hours. Quite immediately the goose-Spm and the duck-Kath lynched me and won the game just by that.
Nogrod, while that was part of it, the real reason was simply that Sauce noticed I was around. We needed to get two votes in for someone straight away, so once I arrived he voted for someone he thought I'd follow along with. Unfortunately that was you!
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:35 PM   #3098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
No, but I've had a certain friend rattle on endlessly about the excitement involved, and the rules explained numerous times.
Had? Did he take it a bit too far? ( ) I'm kidding, of course, though I've been told to "Shut it" by my brother on more than one occation.

And "OOC information"? Out Of Game, was the closest I came...
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:39 PM   #3099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Eonwe: No, but I've had a certain friend rattle on endlessly about the excitement involved, and the rules explained numerous times.
Do we get to know the identity of this friend or is that classified? (I'm assuming you're refering to a Barrow Downer.)
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Old 05-09-2006, 03:52 PM   #3100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond18
I dislike the label of "nonsense", "meaningless", and "substanceless" that gets tagged on to any post which isn't, say, a deep analysis or which contains definite opinions about other players or a theory about how everyone should be behaving. I think that there's rather a lot more meaning in much of what is deemed "meaningless" than a lot of people think -- and also it's unfair on Day 1 when there is no voting record or death count to work off of, to expect everyone to come up with brilliant theories, etc.
Just feeling the battledore whizzing in the air towards me...

But really also. I don't mean, people shouldn't have different strategies - or that the in-character-posts couldn't be actually pointed to something (and you got too much discredit last game Di, you really did, and that was unfair) or be reasonable. I just hate this: "Hi guys, how sad s/he died, I'll be back" and then turning in the next day, just hoping no-one has lynched her/him as villagers had no case-enough...

And even with a threat of some spanking, I must admit, that I was very happy in the last game, when Nilp actually got lynched (after just voting for himself with nothing else posted the whole day) and turned out a werecreature! Just like that! More of these under-radar people caught the first day, the better for the future of the game, as no-one dares to just post once a "Hello-Goodbye"-post when it would be a practise to lynch those people to begin with...

And just trying to fly under the battledore-radar once more. So Di, you see? I don't mind people talking this or that, as long as they leave a trail and put themselves in to the gaming. I'm annoyed by the people who try to take advantage of others, just posting nothing or the least amount possible, and thence avoiding suspicion alltogether. Lazy and crooked, I say. I'll repeat my suggestion: take a game, where everyone just popped in day1 and said "So sorry... how sad... I'll vote for X". What would we have on the second day? A gathering of parasites randomly voting for each other for two or three days before any patterns could be seen?

But anyhow this is wonderful: just a few days of virtual marriage for game-purposes, and we're on each other more than we ever have before... So what does this tell us of these family-ties?
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Old 05-09-2006, 04:53 PM   #3101
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Everyone who is arguing: It doesn't matter. This game is this game. whatever happens will happen. We encourage people to post on the first day. Don't stress about things which fall beyond your control. Allow people to play as they wish within the preestablished rules. Day 1 is one of the most meaningfull days ever, even if very little of any importance happens on it. It is the day that happens before Day 2. Quit your whining.

Diamond18: No. We've agreed to keep it secret for the game's sake. Also, it will keep people from seeing us as collaborating.

Eonwe: OOC = "Out Of Character." I RP too much, I'm afraid. Also, typing the word "game" thirty times in a paragraph quickly becomes tiresome. I tend to take poetic license with my words.
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Old 05-09-2006, 05:16 PM   #3102
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Loki, I am amused by you. You speak so truly: Day One does, indeed, precede Day Two. I expect it will be an adventure in itself to watch you play. I'll have my eyes open, I promise.
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Old 05-09-2006, 05:59 PM   #3103
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Quote:
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Which bring me to another question: Lhuna, where shall we be living now that we have tied the knot? My place is a bit far in the woods, though it'll need to be looked after. We could sell it, and move in to town, of we could use it as a summer house deal. What say you? Put forth all the prudence of a good wife in this matter, for I leave it in your hands.
We live near my parents' house, I suppose? My mom and dad love me so much that they wouldn't let me go far with you. So I guess you can treat your place in the woods as sort of your office by day; I, on the other hand, have to stay in town because of my occupation. Every now and then, though, I'll be taking a leave from my work to go with you to the woods. Whatever I'll be doing there. How's that?

By the way, dear hubby, prepare to get a little jealous. Blame Eomer.

*s at Eomer*
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Old 05-09-2006, 06:06 PM   #3104
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Silmaril

Oh, wow. I vanish for a couple days, and come back to see the drama beginning to unfold. I am so excited! *dances*
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:02 PM   #3105
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Eye

First, I would just like to say that Day 1s can be very important. Events that happen the opening day can set things on course for a victory for one side or the other. A couple of games I've been in you might say were won or lost on the first day.

Second, we can't exactly compare this game to other Werewolf games. The dynamics are completely different. For instance, depending on what the EW chooses to do, it is possible that the wolves will have no clue who the other wolves are, thus there will truly be no patterns in voting to examine to help us catch wolves, and so even if we catch a wolf on Day 1 the votes might not tell us anything and Day 2 will be another Day 1.

There are also a couple of small but important factors that will change things, but I don't want to mention them. Those are eggs I'd like to sit on until after the game is in progress.

All in all, it is possible that every day will have a Day 1 feel to it until the GW decides to step out of the shadows. I'm going to go back on my earlier prediction (that the GW would step forward in 3 or 4 days), and instead predict that he/she'll be out as early as Day 2, or for sure by Day 3. But I certainly won't go into detail about the reasoning behind my prediction- not now. You'll just have to wait for the game.
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Originally Posted by Loki
There are a few flaws to be exploited in the game. I'm loathe to point them out, however, because I am not yet aware which side I will be playing for.
Indeed, there are a few nuggets I'm saving for myself. It will be interesting to see who else has been thinking along the same lines once the game is rolling along.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:53 PM   #3106
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Originally Posted by Hubby
Just feeling the battledore whizzing in the air towards me...
Mwah ha ha ha ha....


Quote:
But really also. I don't mean, people shouldn't have different strategies - or that the in-character-posts couldn't be actually pointed to something (and you got too much discredit last game Di, you really did, and that was unfair) or be reasonable. I just hate this: "Hi guys, how sad s/he died, I'll be back" and then turning in the next day, just hoping no-one has lynched her/him as villagers had no case-enough...
Well, I agree with that -- and unless someone had some kind of RL situation that popped up and kept them away from the computer, I can't feel too sorry for anyone who gets lynched after making one or two posts.


Quote:
But anyhow this is wonderful: just a few days of virtual marriage for game-purposes, and we're on each other more than we ever have before... So what does this tell us of these family-ties?
Well it tells me that it's high time this game started for real.
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Old 05-09-2006, 09:30 PM   #3107
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Originally Posted by Kath
And we are starting at 10pm GMT on Thursday? I take it that will be a Night phase?
Yes.

I have forwarded to Hookbill a request for all changes I've approved, or corrections due to my inept charting.

Nogrod: I may need to revise the rules for clarity by Thursday 6pm. Both the wizards have a lot of latitude in what they wish to reveal, when, to their team. I am going to disallow PMing between gifteds and between werewolves, however, because at some point the two wizards will (or at least probably will) have a wizard battle and kill each other off, and the game reverts to a classic game, and at that point there can't be any PMing between gifteds anyway; and in this game I won't allow werewolves to PM except at Night. So any PMing always has to go through the two Sub-mods, even if the wizards choose to reveal themselves. Although this may seem like an unnecessary complication, there is enough of a chance that enough of the gifteds & werewolves may get killed along the way that there is an entirely different set of them toward the end of the game as compared to the beginning.

current tally:

Perhaps we could know the current tally but not the final roles of those who have died ...?

(you may change your votes of course)

In favor: 6

SPM
Celuien
Roa Aoife
the phantom
Feanor
Eomer

Not in favor: 8

Lalaith
Nogrod
Diamond
Eonwe
Lhunardawen
Nilpaurion
Thinlomien
Glirdan
Spawn

Doesn't care: 3

Azaelia of Willowbottom
Diamond
Cailín

Voting may continue on this matter until 6 pm EDT Wednesday. At that point, the approach with the most votes will be adopted.
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Old 05-09-2006, 10:50 PM   #3108
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++In Favor
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Old 05-09-2006, 10:50 PM   #3109
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Put me down as

++Doesn't care
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Old 05-10-2006, 12:06 AM   #3110
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Put me down for...

++In Favor
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Old 05-10-2006, 01:20 AM   #3111
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Narya

I will go with

++Not In Favour


Oh yeah, btw....I can't believe that I, of all people, am related to Sauce and Cel. How did a quieter player(me) come from those two chatter boxes( ), perplexes me too no end....lol
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Old 05-10-2006, 05:18 AM   #3112
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++In Favor
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Old 05-10-2006, 07:26 AM   #3113
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++ NOT IN FAVOUR

I just played that game!
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Old 05-10-2006, 07:33 AM   #3114
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Does not in favor mean we get final roles? If so, then I am not in favor.

++Not in favor

(p.s. You dratted Brits! I can't read your votes and then have any chance of spelling mine!)
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Old 05-10-2006, 07:45 AM   #3115
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I'm still ambivalent...

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Old 05-10-2006, 07:46 AM   #3116
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Well, quite frankly I'm confused about what 'in favor' and 'not in favor' is actually saying at the moment, so I'm just going to explain what I want.

I'd like to see only the current role revealed of whoever is dying at the time. Any previous roles can be talked about later, after the game is completed. So:

++Whichever choice makes sense with what I just said
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Old 05-10-2006, 07:58 AM   #3117
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Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Hookbill's pictoral concotions presents...

Okay folks, here be goods!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...milyTrees2.jpg

The table with changes as requested by LMP.
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:12 AM   #3118
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Thinlómien has passed beneath the Argonath.Thinlómien has passed beneath the Argonath.Thinlómien has passed beneath the Argonath.Thinlómien has passed beneath the Argonath.Thinlómien has passed beneath the Argonath.Thinlómien has passed beneath the Argonath.
Maybe it should be made clearer that LMP is Diamond's father? I mean, the line from him and R.I.P. leads to the = mark of Diamond and Nogrod's marriage... Well, I don't think it's a big problem anyway and maybe doesn't need to be corrected.

Great work, Hookbill!
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:26 AM   #3119
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Pipe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurthang
Well, quite frankly I'm confused about what 'in favor' and 'not in favor' is actually saying at the moment, so I'm just going to explain what I want.

I'd like to see only the current role revealed of whoever is dying at the time. Any previous roles can be talked about later, after the game is completed. So:

++Whichever choice makes sense with what I just said
++What he said
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:28 AM   #3120
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Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien
Maybe it should be made clearer that LMP is Diamond's father? I mean, the line from him and R.I.P. leads to the = mark of Diamond and Nogrod's marriage... Well, I don't think it's a big problem anyway and maybe doesn't need to be corrected.

Great work, Hookbill!
Argh! I just noticed that. Oh well. I can't be bothered changing it now. Takes up too much memory anyway.
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