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05-10-2004, 03:30 PM | #1 |
Face in the Water
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Giving Strength
The name "Ecthelion" apparently has no translation. However, its two elements, 'ec' and 'thelion', are very close to 'ech' and 'thalion', Sindarin elements meaning 'to make' and 'strong'. Since the first Ecthelion was an elf-lord of Gondolin and made the city strong, so to speak, is this a possible translation of his name?
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05-10-2004, 03:57 PM | #2 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Seems good to me. I don't persoanlly think he was named that in recognition of his deeds for the city (though you never know, Elven mothers name with foresight, and Elves can choose their own descriptive names too) but because of his strength and maybe character too (helping others with it etc). But the translation seems sound.
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05-10-2004, 04:34 PM | #3 |
Late Istar
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In "Of Maeglin" in HoMe XI, p.318, we learn that the archaic form was "Aegthelion". The root is STEL-, "remain firm", which gives "estel" (the prefixed form), "hope" and S. "thel", "intend, mean, purpose, resolve, will", Q. "thelma", "a fixed idea, will". It's hard to tell (for me at least) whether "Aegthelion" is from the prefixed or unprefixed form. I wonder also whether "-ion" is to be taken as "son" or just a masculine suffix. It might mean "Son of hope" or "Son of fixed resolve".
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05-10-2004, 05:05 PM | #4 |
Face in the Water
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Hmm... now we have to get into the discussion of whether archaic forms of a name are applicable. Not another canon argument!
Seriously though, I guess the real question is whether the name evolved from 'Aegthelion' to 'Ecthelion' in Middle-earth, or in Tolkien's writing. What did Tolkien intend for the name to be? And should we apply the evolution of a name outside Middle-earth to its evolution inside it? |
05-10-2004, 05:13 PM | #5 |
Late Istar
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Sorry I didn't make it clear - "Aegthelion" is the archaic form intra-Legendarium. The whole etymology I just summarized comes from "Of Maeglin" which is c. 1970.
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05-10-2004, 06:39 PM | #6 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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In HoME V, in the Etymologies, it gives certain referance to Ecthelion: under the roots for spear and point. It seems, then, to mean "point (of spear)". Beyond that, you could take the '-ion' to be simply a male name suffix, or to mean 'son of'.
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05-11-2004, 04:50 AM | #7 |
Face in the Water
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If 'Aegthelion' is the archaic form, then is 'fell strength' is another possible translation?
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05-11-2004, 07:12 PM | #8 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I don't think Ecthelion's name would be Sindarin. Since he was an elf of Gondolin, his name was probably Noldorin.
Earendil's name was said to be of a speech unique to the Gondolhrim, (I think it is mentioned in the fall of Gondolin), perhaps the name Ecthelion was also of that language.
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