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Old 11-26-2004, 01:38 PM   #1
AbercrombieOfRohan
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Tolkien The Necromancer

There is a Lord of the Rings literary club at our school and we got to talking about the Necromancer the other day and I can't seem to remember a lot about him. Can anyone help?

Question #1: Is the Necromancer Sauron? Are they the same person?
Question #2: How was the Necromancer defeated?
Question #3: When did he move into Dol Guldur?
Question #4: Well this one isn't really a question, more of a plea. Are there any other tidbits that you would like to share with me? AND In which book (s) is the Necromancer mentioned because I must re-read them.

Thank you for helping a poor newbie.
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Old 11-26-2004, 02:12 PM   #2
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
The Necromancer is how Sauron is referred to in "The Hobbit" - the reason that Gandalf leaves the Dwarves at the edge of Mirkwood is in order to attend the "White Council" (Galadriel and Saruman were also members surely Elrond too?). They drove Sauron from Dol Guldur but they had delayed (on the insistance of Saruman) and Sauron merely went to Mordor. All the dates are in the LOTR appendices but if you have "Unfinished Tales", you will find a narrative on the Quest of Erebor from Gandalf's perspective. In FOTR I think Galadriel talks about the council in Lorien and there may be some references in The Council of Elrond. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-26-2004, 02:13 PM   #3
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Sorry - I forget my manners ..... welcome to the downs
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Old 11-26-2004, 02:46 PM   #4
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Tolkien

Thanks. How did they drive the Necromancer away? Wasn't there some passage somewhere about how galadriel sent a group of elves to guard dol guldur or something? or am I just imagining thing?
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Old 11-26-2004, 02:53 PM   #5
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The Encyclopedia of Arda is a fine place to research such trivia. Welcome to the Downs!
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Old 11-26-2004, 03:13 PM   #6
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
In the end, Sauron only prentended and let the others think he had been driven out to lull them into a false sense of security. I think it would have been more about inner strength rather than physical strength - think of Glorfindel driving the Nazgul into the river or Gandalf "fighting" Saruman or the Balrog. I think they watched Dol Guldur more like spies than standing guard.
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Old 11-27-2004, 03:19 AM   #7
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I did a quick search on the necromancer and I'm pasting the links here. I haven't read them all...just thought you might like to know what others have said.

Necromancer
Necromancer 2
Necromancer 3
Necromancer 4
Necromancer 5
Necromancer 6

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Old 11-27-2004, 06:01 AM   #8
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The adaptation of the original Necromancer concept is an interesting topic in its own right. I find it paticularly odd that the relatively sharp minds of the White Council thought he could have been a mere Wraith...
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Old 11-27-2004, 12:25 PM   #9
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I don't think that this is among the links that Imladris provided. It provides some interesting thoughts on the nature of the Necromancer:

Did the Necromancer practice necromancy?

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Old 11-27-2004, 03:32 PM   #10
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Tolkien

I feel so loved with all of the welcome-ings.

Thank you for all the help guys. I don't feel so uneducated now. So let me make sure I've got this down correctly.

Necromancer is Sauron.
He was "defeated" by the White Council
Moved into Dol Guldur at whenever, I can look it up.

Alrighty. Cool Beans.
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:37 PM   #11
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Sauron moved into Dol Guldur around 1050 of the Third Age.

Quote:
1050 - ...About this time a shadow falls on Greenwood, and men begin to call it Mirkwood...

1100 - The Wise (the Istari and the chief Eldar) discover that an evil power has made a stronghold at Dol Guldur. It is thought to be one of the Nazgul
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Old 11-29-2004, 08:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimbaud
The adaptation of the original Necromancer concept is an interesting topic in its own right. I find it paticularly odd that the relatively sharp minds of the White Council thought he could have been a mere Wraith...
Perhaps you could elaborate on what you find interesting about this adaptation, Rimbaud? I don't think we have had a topic on how Tolkien adapted his ideas over time, since and consciously so in the revision. We haven't had a new thread topic from you for some time either.
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Old 11-29-2004, 12:27 PM   #13
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimbaud
The adaptation of the original Necromancer concept is an interesting topic in its own right. I find it paticularly odd that the relatively sharp minds of the White Council thought he could have been a mere Wraith...

I guess that may have been the persuasive "voice of Saruman" at work..
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Old 11-30-2004, 08:15 AM   #14
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Sting

Yup Saruman Voice at work at the Council.But from where do you think that JRR took the Necromancer idea from ??
Could anybody explain what really is a Necromancer?
I dont know if any of you have played Warcraft III ,but in the game the undead have a unit called the Necromancer and it has the power of raising the dead .
Would'nt it be cool if the Dark Lord could raise the dead .
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Old 11-30-2004, 08:26 PM   #15
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Old 11-30-2004, 08:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutslegolas
Could anybody explain what really is a Necromancer?
Strictly speaking, one who seeks to discover the future through communication with dead spirits. Although the term has, in fantasy literature and role-playing games, come to be used to refer to sorcerors generally, particularly those who seek to raise the dead to serve them.

Click on the link that I gave above for further information.
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