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Old 12-30-2002, 02:42 PM   #1
Curulin
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Pipe The original Elves

Hello all.
I've got a qestion about the Elves: When the eldest eves awoke in the east of middle-earth, in Cuivenien, how many were there originally? it seems like there must have been a fair number, as in the silmarillion, it describes the three families of the eldar (Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri) as being hosts, and the number seems to grow into many thousands by the time the Noldor returned to Belariand.
So how quickly do elves reprosuce? Do they wait to have children on average longer than men because of their much longer lives, or do they mature at the same rate?
Also, a related question, what other material is there (except the silmarillion) about Ingwe and the Vanyar, because ive always been curious about them...
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Old 12-30-2002, 02:59 PM   #2
Manwe Sulimo
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Sting

Well, remember, the time scale isn't the same, because this was before the Years of the Sun. So, it could've been thousands of years in which no Elves were dying of grief or wounds, since no one was trying to kill them.

As for Ingwë and the Vanyar, pretty much anything major is in The Silmarillion, unless there's some stuff after HoMe V. Although Ingwë's son, Ingwiel, is the Elf who leads the Host of the Valar during the War of Wrath, alongside Eönwë.
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Old 12-30-2002, 03:23 PM   #3
arelendil
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Silmaril

There are passages about elves in HoME ten but I don't remember them having names, and a very interesting essay on the traditions of the elven kindreds. It's one of my favourite bits and tells you everything you could ever want to know about weddings and life span of the elves.
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Old 12-31-2002, 08:35 AM   #4
Voronwe
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According to a legend given in Quendi and Eldar (found in HoME XI) there were 144 elves who awoke at Cuivienen, who are called 'the Unbegotten'. The first three elves to awake were called Imin, Tata and Enel.
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Old 01-02-2003, 06:30 PM   #5
Legolas
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Sting

Voronwe is right, of course.

The names of the six elves are given, actually: Imin and Iminye, Tata and Tatie, Enel and Enelye. These mean one, two, and three (given in both masculine and feminine).

The three males awoke before their spouses, and are known as the Elf-fathers.

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According to the legend, preserved in almost identical form among both the Elves of Aman and the Sindar, the Three Clans were in the beginning derived from the three Elf-fathers: Imin, Tata, and Enel (sc. One, Two, Three), and those whom each chose to join his following. So they had at first simply the names Minyar 'Firsts', Tatyar 'Seconds', and Nelyar 'Thirds'. These numbered, out of the original 144 Elves that first awoke, 14, 56,and 74; and these proportions were approximately maintained until the Separation.
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