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Old 11-19-2009, 05:38 PM   #1041
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They both attended awesome parties thrown by relatives... I know it isn't right but I wanted to bump the thread
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:06 PM   #1042
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Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.
It indeed isn't But nice for you to bump the thread here. Perhaps somebody wants to try? We are talking Frodo and Nienor here. Focusing on Bilbo was a good move. From there, one can start unfolding it...
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:24 PM   #1043
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This is really really far-fetched, but let's give it a try.
Both had an elder relative who gave a necklace from a dragon hoard to an elven king: Bilbo to Thranduil (his parting gift near the end of The Hobbit), Húrin to Thingol (the Nauglamír).
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:00 PM   #1044
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Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Ugh. No, that is maybe somewhat a bit too complicated.

What I am looking for has more something to do with their... social status, so to say.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:45 PM   #1045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
let's try Frodo Baggins and... Nienor Níniel. What do they have in common?
The first thing that came to mind is that they were both carried away by water, so that they have no known final resting place in Middle Earth.

But since then you've given us further hints: focus on those close to them, and "social status." Let me think a bit about it.

Edit: They were both orphans and/or their fathers both drowned?

(Nienor's father Húrin Thalion killed himself by throwing himself into the sea, her mother Morwen Eledhwen was lost in a dragon attack; Frodo's father Drogo Baggins drowned in a boating accident along with Frodo's mother Primula).

Last edited by Mugwump; 11-28-2009 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Addendum
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:51 PM   #1046
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Nope, not really, but good try nevertheless. Social status, yes, good focus. The family relations are also a good focus. But there is something else what I am looking for.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:52 PM   #1047
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Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Both were 'dispossessed' of their inheiritence; Frodo (voluntarily) of Bilbo, and Nienor of Húrin?
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:42 AM   #1048
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Nope, not that. Okay, the riddle is intentionally somewhat "distanced", if I wanted to be more plain, the focus could have been as well just on the people whom Frodo and Nienor are related to, not on themselves. Maybe it is easier for you to find the answer if you first find something in common for these particular relatives of them, and then make a conclusion of what it meant for the "status" of Frodo and Nienor themselves.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:29 AM   #1049
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Relatives of people (Bilbo, Hurin) whom Sauron was looking for or were enemies of Sauron?
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:45 AM   #1050
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Nay, there were lots of other people whose parents or something were pursued by Sauron. No, this was not such a common trait (and I think it was quite unique, at least from top of the head I cannot think of anybody else).
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:28 PM   #1051
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Maybe it is easier for you to find the answer if you first find something in common for these particular relatives of them...
Which particular relatives of theirs? They each have way too many relatives. I give up.
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:02 PM   #1052
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Which particular relatives of theirs? They each have way too many relatives. I give up.
Relatives who (logically of course) have something in common too, like their relationship to Frodo and Nienor. In other words, what do Frodo and Nienor have in common? Well, there was something which made their lives, fates, whatever, similar in the way because they had relatives (who were both "X" to them) and those relatives were both "Y". And that projected back on Frodo and Nienor. Now it probably sounds only far more confusing. Okay, if you think there is no way you could get it from here, I will tell you the names of the particular relatives.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:53 PM   #1053
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Well ... they had relatives (who were both "X" to them) and those relatives were both "Y". And that projected back on Frodo and Nienor.
Um... f(x,y) = 2x^2 + 3*log(y-1)?

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Old 12-01-2009, 04:42 AM   #1054
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Does it mean that I should give the identities of the two relatives?
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:49 AM   #1055
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Well, I certainly can't figure it out. You say it's unique, but if it's something that a relative of Nienor's had in common with a relative of Frodo's, then you'd be able to say the same thing about Nienor's siblings, Lalaith and Túrin Turambar. And it can't be anything related to Nienor's marriage to Túrin since Frodo never married (at least, not in Middle Earth). So I'm stumped.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:03 AM   #1056
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Okay, it has something to do with the people who raised them (or, "raised") - that is, Bilbo and Morwen, respectively. So it is something that concerns these two (something that, in fact, Bilbo and Morwen have in common) and through them it affects Frodo and Nienor.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:57 PM   #1057
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Wow, that's tough... I can't think of anything Biblo and Morwen had in common, save that they both lived in Arda. One was a male, hobbit bachelor with no children who lived in Middle Earth, adopted a great nephew, and passed over to the Uttermost West, and the other was a female human who married and had three children, who lived in Beleriand and was apparently killed by a dragon.

They both met a dragon?
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Old 12-01-2009, 04:28 PM   #1058
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That would have very little to do with Frodo and Nienor themselves. The answer partially (even though just partially) concerns them, it's not just like "their relatives met a dragon" - that doesn't have much to do with them personally. Besides, like I said above, it's a thing which is not that common (many people in the stories have met dragons). And it has something to do with "status" or something like that, of the people...
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:36 PM   #1059
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both were outcasts because of unpopular quests or decisions of their guardians?

Bilbo and the lonely mountain Morwen looking for her so returning looking like a wild woman
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Old 12-02-2009, 03:00 AM   #1060
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Okay, yes, I will accept Morsul's answer, although it is not exactly formulated the way I had in mind, the basic idea is there!

It was just so that for Frodo and Nienor, the person who raised them (Bilbo or Morwen) had the reputation of a "weird person" in the society because of doing weird things, being associated with Elves and all that stuff. In Bilbo's case I think it's clear, in Morwen's case it was the Easterlings who were afraid of her, calling her "a witch". So in other words, family reputation of being something awkward because of these two people.

So yes, that was it. Morsul, you may continue the thread.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:55 AM   #1061
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Here's one simply for fun since I can't think of anything...

Balrogs, Eagles, and Fell Beasts
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:18 AM   #1062
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BLASPHEMY!!!

Well, they all had wi... uh... wild nature. You see, very dangerous in general - even the Eagles, as it is said in the Hobbit, they could have been very dangerous even to humans.
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:27 AM   #1063
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Lol Legate I see you know the real answer

Wings

Your thread once again
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:15 PM   #1064
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Aside from the movies and illustrations by countless artists (but not Tolkien's illustrations), where does Tolkien say that Balrogs had wings?
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:30 PM   #1065
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Do Balrog's have wings

Look at this thread(one of many...many..countless threads on the subject there's a reason I put a smiley I happen to take the approach this way technically Tolkien says "Like Two vast wings" but later says "Its wings" also the numerous threads if the balrogs didn't fly to Morgoth's aid then they must be sprinters...

Anyway I take the approach "Hey that looks like Frank," the person gets closer and clearer "Oh it Is Frank."

But in all seriousness I didn't have a question so made up a stupid one which Legate got right away

Legate back to you
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:45 PM   #1066
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Well for what it's worth I agree Balrogs have wings because I think they should have wings -- it's just way cooler.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:20 AM   #1067
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Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Well, but you see, Mugwump, it's something like a legend around here If you are interested, you can attempt to revive the thread (But if so, Valar have mercy on us...)

But then, as for looking for something in common... what do Galadriel, Gollum, Boromir, Balin and the Balrog have in common?
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:59 AM   #1068
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Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
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But then, as for looking for something in common... what do Galadriel, Gollum, Boromir, Balin and the Balrog have in common?
You mean, apart from NOT having wings?

This is probably too easy, but - Moria? All of them went there or dwelt there for a while? (Galadriel had good relations with the Dwarves when she lived in Eregion, so she must have visited once or twice, I suppose.)
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:42 AM   #1069
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Yes, that's it - have been inside Moria (or passed it through, respectively). Dwarves were not usually folk who would let people visit just for having a cup of tea, but Galadriel actually passed through (in one account) when she was moving from Eregion to Lórien. So yeah, that was it. Not difficult at all.

Your turn, Pw
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"But it is not your own Shire," said Gildor. "Others dwelt here before hobbits were; and others will dwell here again when hobbits are no more. The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out."
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:00 PM   #1070
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Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Thanks! Now let's see... what might Frodo Baggins and Beleg Cúthalion have in common?
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:33 PM   #1071
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First names of five letters?
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:53 AM   #1072
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Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Sorry, no. (And it's not having two names each, either. It's something both of them did.)
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:05 PM   #1073
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Both overlooked the evil deeds of a companion's past. Beleg stayed with Turin despite his outlaw ways and Frodo accepted Gollum as a guide despite all his evil.
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Old 02-20-2010, 03:02 PM   #1074
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Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
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Both overlooked the evil deeds of a companion's past. Beleg stayed with Turin despite his outlaw ways and Frodo accepted Gollum as a guide despite all his evil.
Ah, I'd almost forgotten about this! Good guess, Lindolirian - actually, this could be a perfectly valid answer, but it's not what I was thinking of. You're very, very close though - it has to do with Túrin and Gollum, respectively. Try to think of specific situations rather than their general attitude towards their companions.
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:09 AM   #1075
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Perhaps not only accepting their old deeds, but trying to bring them back to a good path.
Frodo trying to make Gollum remember his old identity as Smeagol and Beleg trying to make Turin return to Doriath.
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:54 AM   #1076
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Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Nothing so complicated. Forget psychology and morals. All I'm looking for is two little episodes, one from LotR, one from the Narn, both having to do with something pretty concrete (as in, visible and touchable). As Bertolt Brecht said, "Grub first, then ethics".
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Last edited by Pitchwife; 03-02-2010 at 08:55 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:08 AM   #1077
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Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Thumbs up

Grub, says you? So is it the lembas-offering episode? "This is a gift from Melian/Galadriel" "Thanks, save it for yourself, nassty master Beleg/Frodo"?
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Old 03-02-2010, 04:06 PM   #1078
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Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Pitchwife is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
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It is indeed. Well done, Legate! Your turn.
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Old 03-03-2010, 03:31 AM   #1079
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Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.Legate of Amon Lanc is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Ha! Okay, let's see about this

What do the Dwarves of Erebor, the Stoors and Dunlendings have in common?
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:10 AM   #1080
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I don't know if this explanation is too simple, but perhaps just that they all lived in Dunland, at least for some time?

Dunlendings - of course lived in Dunland
Stoors - crossed the Redhorn Pass and most of them settled south in Dunland
Dwarves of Erebor - were led there by Thráin after they were forced to flee

Perhaps one could add to this that they actually wanted other lands than Dunland.

Dunlendings - the rich lands of Rohan
Stoors - eventually made their way to the Shire or back to the Gladden Fields
Dwarves of Erebor - went to the northern Blue Mountains and later Erebor

EDIT: by the way I thought about the lembas episode with Frodo and Gollum but forgot that Beleg had done the same with Túrin.
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