Pipes And Smoking - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Arathiriel · 10-03-2002, 12:16 AM

I was just curious but is there a certain age a young Hobbit has to be before they begin to smoke? If so, what is the age and where is this mentioned?

Thanks!

Kalimac · 10-03-2002, 01:13 AM

I don't remember a "smoking age" ever being specifically mentioned, but from the fact that Pippin seems to enjoy his pipeweed in ROTK, we can assume that it was not necessary to have come of age at 33 in order to enjoy a smoke. It seems reasonable that (like Big People) they'd take up smoking and drinking at the same time; and since in FOTR Sam is shown as being at the Green Dragon arguing with Ted Sandyman over a pint - and Sam at this point about twenty or twenty-one years old, if I remember correctly - presumably it was OK at age twenty or so. Alas, evidence for earlier ages is inconclusive. I haven't got FOTR in front of me, but if there's any mention in the "Long-expected party" of Merry smoking/drinking, that would lower the bar even more, since Merry's about seventeen at that point.

Arathiriel · 10-03-2002, 10:20 AM

Hmmmmmm.....

Simce I don't remember Merry OR pippin being mentioned in the Long-Expected Party I am going to assume that for the purposes of my story, that the normal age for the smoking of pipeweed begins at around 20....

Thank you!

Kalimac · 10-03-2002, 02:36 PM

Glad to be of use [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. To be a little more specific - I don't think Merry is specifically mentioned as having been AT the Long-Expected Party, but it's a pretty fair bet that he was since he was with Frodo the day after, helping to take care of the aftermath at Bag End. Pippin isn't mentioned at all, but of course he would have been about eleven then and was probably hanging out with a younger age-group.

merlilot · 10-03-2002, 02:37 PM

Mery and Pippin were both at the Party, according to the Appendicies. Merry was about 17, and if I subtracted correctly, Pippin was 8. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]
Considering the temperament of Hobbits, I would hazard a guess that there was no drinking or smoking ages.

Evisse the Blue · 10-04-2002, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Considering the temperament of Hobbits, I would hazard a guess that there was no drinking or smoking ages.

Indeed. And this is supported by the fact, mentioned as well in 'A long expected party' that hobbit parents were very indulgent to their children when it came to food and staying up late. No reason weed is an exception. After all, they didn't consider it harmful, or anything.

Selmo · 10-04-2002, 05:31 AM

This particular hobbit took up the pipe at about twenty years old.

Frodo Baggins · 10-04-2002, 08:17 AM

Well, I didn't start until the first year I moved in with Bilbo.

If you look in the family trees in appendix C, you will see that some of the hobbt names are underlined, those are the ones that were at Bilbo's party.

Pippin was 11 at the time of the party, Mery was 16. I suppose that Pippin was part of the youn Tooks and Brandybucks that tok the mysical instruments from the crackers and made a makeshift orchestra that played during Bilbo's speech. In fact, I think I remeber seeing him there!

Arwen Imladris · 10-04-2002, 02:29 PM

Hmmm, this is interesting. I think that it was probebly up to the parents. Some parents today will let their child have a little bit of wine or something on special occasions (christmas, New Years, Thanksgiving..) It was probebly similar for hobbits. The laws and things in the Shire seemed to be pretty relaxed. I doubt that they had any hard set rules about drinking and smoking. Besides, how would they enforce that? They only had a few Shirrifs.

merlilot · 10-04-2002, 03:09 PM

See, now that right there is why I am failing math...I can't subtract.

Frodo: [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Seriously though, is there like evidence of that? Cuz that woulda been 22. Provided I added one correctly. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

And if you look in the movie, behind Frodo when he does that little dance move that looks like a frog hopping, you can see Merry and Pippin...Pippin of course drinking some ale. Why would there be a smoking age, but no drinking age, or if there was one, it was really low, younger than 11.

Frodo Baggins · 10-04-2002, 06:24 PM

Merlilot,

The movie isn't THAT accurate on hobbit ages.

Catherine · 10-04-2002, 08:42 PM

I think that the Hobbits could drink or smoke whenever they wanted. They had no age.

Fallen King of Angmar · 10-04-2002, 11:37 PM

interesting question.

no "set" smoking age was mentioned but merry and pippin sure do enjoy their pipes at Isengard ! )

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 10-07-2002, 12:59 PM

I would say that the whole concept of an official, rigidly-enforced minimum age for smoking (or drinking, for that matter) would be antithetical to the whole conception of the Shire, which inclines towards a mild combination of feudalism and anarchy. According to the Prologue to The Fellowship of the Ring:

Quote:

The Shire at this time had hardly any 'government'. Families for the most part managed their own affairs.

This being so, and bearing in mind the description of the Mayor of Michel Delving's duties, I should say that it was up to the leaders of one's extended family to decide when to permit either, but we must bear in mind that the Shire doesn't have any moral objections to either smoking or drinking, so that the decision would be based on a feeling on the part of older Hobbits that a particular youngster was ready to be introduced to the art of pipe-smoking or the delights of the brewer's art, rather than on any hard-and-fast rule. In any case it would seem more in-keeping with Hobbits' general outlook that such matters be decided on the merits of each individual case rather than on some official edict. I expect that they would view our modern governments as interfering busybodies and who am I to argue?

merlilot · 10-08-2002, 07:22 PM

Yeah I know they weren't age specific...heck most of the ppl who just watched the movie have NO idea how old Frodo is...But the point is...I'm sure the movie-makers knew how old Pip was sposed to be and if they thought there was an age, they would have have Billy NOT be drinking. Not that hard of a deal.

Frodo Baggins · 10-09-2002, 06:03 PM

Good point Merlilot. And I'm supposed to be 50 but they didn't seem to have enough time pass in the movie did they?

elfling · 10-09-2002, 09:26 PM

Yeah, I had trouble with the timeline thing when I saw the movie at first. I guess after seeing it more I just filled in the time myself. I don't think PJ wanted to push the Frodo was 50 thing. Even if the ring kept him from showing his age, who wants to think of Elij. as a 50 year old.
I don't think it makes to big of a dif if you don't realize how many years have passed befor Frodo leaves the Shire.

10-03-2002, 12:16 AM	#1
Arathiriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Blessed Realm Posts: 284	Pipes And Smoking I was just curious but is there a certain age a young Hobbit has to be before they begin to smoke? If so, what is the age and where is this mentioned? Thanks! __________________ 'I love him. He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, somehow. But I love him, whether or no.' - Samwise Gamgee

10-03-2002, 01:13 AM	#2
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	I don't remember a "smoking age" ever being specifically mentioned, but from the fact that Pippin seems to enjoy his pipeweed in ROTK, we can assume that it was not necessary to have come of age at 33 in order to enjoy a smoke. It seems reasonable that (like Big People) they'd take up smoking and drinking at the same time; and since in FOTR Sam is shown as being at the Green Dragon arguing with Ted Sandyman over a pint - and Sam at this point about twenty or twenty-one years old, if I remember correctly - presumably it was OK at age twenty or so. Alas, evidence for earlier ages is inconclusive. I haven't got FOTR in front of me, but if there's any mention in the "Long-expected party" of Merry smoking/drinking, that would lower the bar even more, since Merry's about seventeen at that point. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

10-03-2002, 10:20 AM	#3
Arathiriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Blessed Realm Posts: 284	Hmmmmmm..... Simce I don't remember Merry OR pippin being mentioned in the Long-Expected Party I am going to assume that for the purposes of my story, that the normal age for the smoking of pipeweed begins at around 20.... Thank you! __________________ 'I love him. He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, somehow. But I love him, whether or no.' - Samwise Gamgee

10-03-2002, 02:36 PM	#4
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Glad to be of use [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. To be a little more specific - I don't think Merry is specifically mentioned as having been AT the Long-Expected Party, but it's a pretty fair bet that he was since he was with Frodo the day after, helping to take care of the aftermath at Bag End. Pippin isn't mentioned at all, but of course he would have been about eleven then and was probably hanging out with a younger age-group. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

10-03-2002, 02:37 PM	#5
merlilot Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brandy Hall, Buckland, the Eastmarch of the Shire Posts: 204	Mery and Pippin were both at the Party, according to the Appendicies. Merry was about 17, and if I subtracted correctly, Pippin was 8. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Considering the temperament of Hobbits, I would hazard a guess that there was no drinking or smoking ages. __________________ <--- and Billy Boyd. Thanks for the pic Alatariel (hope I spelled it right) even if i took it without permission

10-04-2002, 05:31 AM	#7
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	This particular hobbit took up the pipe at about twenty years old.

10-04-2002, 08:17 AM	#8
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Well, I didn't start until the first year I moved in with Bilbo. If you look in the family trees in appendix C, you will see that some of the hobbt names are underlined, those are the ones that were at Bilbo's party. Pippin was 11 at the time of the party, Mery was 16. I suppose that Pippin was part of the youn Tooks and Brandybucks that tok the mysical instruments from the crackers and made a makeshift orchestra that played during Bilbo's speech. In fact, I think I remeber seeing him there! __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

10-04-2002, 02:29 PM	#9
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Hmmm, this is interesting. I think that it was probebly up to the parents. Some parents today will let their child have a little bit of wine or something on special occasions (christmas, New Years, Thanksgiving..) It was probebly similar for hobbits. The laws and things in the Shire seemed to be pretty relaxed. I doubt that they had any hard set rules about drinking and smoking. Besides, how would they enforce that? They only had a few Shirrifs. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

10-04-2002, 03:09 PM	#10
merlilot Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brandy Hall, Buckland, the Eastmarch of the Shire Posts: 204	See, now that right there is why I am failing math...I can't subtract. Frodo: [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Seriously though, is there like evidence of that? Cuz that woulda been 22. Provided I added one correctly. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] And if you look in the movie, behind Frodo when he does that little dance move that looks like a frog hopping, you can see Merry and Pippin...Pippin of course drinking some ale. Why would there be a smoking age, but no drinking age, or if there was one, it was really low, younger than 11. __________________ <--- and Billy Boyd. Thanks for the pic Alatariel (hope I spelled it right) even if i took it without permission

10-04-2002, 06:24 PM	#11
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Merlilot, The movie isn't THAT accurate on hobbit ages. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

10-04-2002, 08:42 PM	#12
Catherine Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 297	I think that the Hobbits could drink or smoke whenever they wanted. They had no age. __________________ ~.:Catherine:.~ "I have never been out of my own land before. And if I had known what the world outside was like. I don't think I should have had the heart to leave it." ~Merry to Haldir in Lothlórien~

10-04-2002, 11:37 PM	#13
Fallen King of Angmar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 51	interesting question. no "set" smoking age was mentioned but merry and pippin sure do enjoy their pipes at Isengard ! ) __________________ "Come not between the Nazghul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."

10-08-2002, 07:22 PM	#15
merlilot Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brandy Hall, Buckland, the Eastmarch of the Shire Posts: 204	Yeah I know they weren't age specific...heck most of the ppl who just watched the movie have NO idea how old Frodo is...But the point is...I'm sure the movie-makers knew how old Pip was sposed to be and if they thought there was an age, they would have have Billy NOT be drinking. Not that hard of a deal. __________________ <--- and Billy Boyd. Thanks for the pic Alatariel (hope I spelled it right) even if i took it without permission

10-09-2002, 06:03 PM	#16
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Good point Merlilot. And I'm supposed to be 50 but they didn't seem to have enough time pass in the movie did they? __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

10-09-2002, 09:26 PM	#17
elfling Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: asheville,nc Posts: 86	Yeah, I had trouble with the timeline thing when I saw the movie at first. I guess after seeing it more I just filled in the time myself. I don't think PJ wanted to push the Frodo was 50 thing. Even if the ring kept him from showing his age, who wants to think of Elij. as a 50 year old. I don't think it makes to big of a dif if you don't realize how many years have passed befor Frodo leaves the Shire. __________________ And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night...All shall love me and despair!