Balrogs and Elvish Spirits

[Beregond]

Two questions which may be unworthy of advanced discussion:

The first is simple: where did Tolkien talk about "houseless elves"? I've seen the term bandied about in recent research and I know Houseless Elves are bodyless Elves who refuse the call of Mandos, but I don't recall hearing the term before. Did I pass over it the first few times I read the Silmarillion and UT? Very possible. Is is discussed elsewhere?

The second question is less straightforward, and forgive me if it's been hashed out previously:

Why did the Moria Balrog stay under the mountains for so many thousand years? Even after the Dwarves poked it in the dark, it never (from my understanding) took a stroll in the daylight or moonlight to smell the flowers and feel the summer breeze under it's wings/shadows. Wouldn't a creature filled with such malice towards free people actively hunt out some victims instead of hanging out with the Nameless Things playing hide-and-go-seek? Was the Balrog scared? Of the light, of Gandalf, of Galadriel? Or had it lost the initiative when the Valar deleted its master to Eru's trash bin, there to await the great Permanent Removal?

[Eäralda Halatiriva]

Originally Posted by Beregond

Two questions which may be unworthy of advanced discussion:

The second question is less straightforward, and forgive me if it's been hashed out previously:

Why did the Moria Balrog stay under the mountains for so many thousand years? Even after the Dwarves poked it in the dark, it never (from my understanding) took a stroll in the daylight or moonlight to smell the flowers and feel the summer breeze under it's wings/shadows. Wouldn't a creature filled with such malice towards free people actively hunt out some victims instead of hanging out with the Nameless Things playing hide-and-go-seek? Was the Balrog scared? Of the light, of Gandalf, of Galadriel? Or had it lost the initiative when the Valar deleted its master to Eru's trash bin, there to await the great Permanent Removal?

well, i'd say that perhaps Evil is less crude than you are assuming, and perhaps the Valaraukar are more attuned to the strategy of teamwork than our mortal imaginations are capable of grasping (remember that despite their fana or incarnation, these are ancient Maiar powers coeval with the Istari)......

[Macalaure]

Can't answer the first question either, but for the second one:

I think it's a combination of two things. First, he might indeed have been too scared. The last thing he knew from the outside world was how the Valar got rid of Morgoth and all his servants they could catch, including, presumably, all other Balrogs. How could be have known that the situation was less hostile outside afterwards? He could have learned it from the Orcs after they invaded Moria, but there is no indication that there was ever an actual contact between them.

The other reason could be that, after the end of Morgoth, he had no master anymore, and no purpose. Sauron must've known about the Balrog after the invasion of Moria, yet the Balrog did not join him (or was never asked to), so Sauron apparently was not sufficient in rank to be a master. Alone, the Balrog indeed seemed to not have any own initiative beyond keeping his doorstep clean from non-evil.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Beregond

The first is simple: where did Tolkien talk about "houseless elves"? (...) Did I pass over it the first few times I read the Silmarillion and UT? Very possible. Is is discussed elsewhere?

JRRT wrote about the Houseless in Laws And Customs Among The Eldar, (for example) in section Of Re-birth And Other Dooms Of Those That Go To Mandos.

And this appears in section: Later Quenta Silmarillion II, Morgoth's Ring

[Rumil]

I've wondered if the Balrog had gone into some sort of hibernation in the long years between the end of the First Age and the dwarves' delving.

At first (few years/centuries?) it would have feared discovery by the Maiar, Vanyar et al, but effectively it appears to have slept on until discovered. Perhaps being woken up made it extra-grouchy!

[Lalwendë]

I often think the Balrog must have found plenty to keep itself busy in the deep and dark places under Moria - maybe tormenting the nameless things that Gandalf says live down there. The Balrog might have been like the Nidhoggr, gnawing at the very foundations of Middle-earth

Or else he/she/it chose to keep out of Sauron's way. It may not have wanted to be used and exploited by him like so many other beings and creatures were used by both Morgoth and Sauron.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Or else he/she/it chose to keep out of Sauron's way. It may not have wanted to be used and exploited by him like so many other beings and creatures were used by both Morgoth and Sauron.

Which is precisely why in 2483 3rd Age was founded the MeSPCB, the Middle-earth Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Balrogs, as a proposed remedy for such exploitation. Unfortunately, all the attendees of the first meeting were incinerated by the guest of honor.

[Vaine]

Originally Posted by Beregond

Two questions which may be unworthy of advanced discussion:

The first is simple: where did Tolkien talk about "houseless elves"? I've seen the term bandied about in recent research and I know Houseless Elves are bodyless Elves who refuse the call of Mandos, but I don't recall hearing the term before. Did I pass over it the first few times I read the Silmarillion and UT? Very possible. Is is discussed elsewhere?

The second question is less straightforward, and forgive me if it's been hashed out previously:

Why did the Moria Balrog stay under the mountains for so many thousand years? Even after the Dwarves poked it in the dark, it never (from my understanding) took a stroll in the daylight or moonlight to smell the flowers and feel the summer breeze under it's wings/shadows. Wouldn't a creature filled with such malice towards free people actively hunt out some victims instead of hanging out with the Nameless Things playing hide-and-go-seek? Was the Balrog scared? Of the light, of Gandalf, of Galadriel? Or had it lost the initiative when the Valar deleted its master to Eru's trash bin, there to await the great Permanent Removal?

Considering the reason the Balrog went to moria and 'exile' in the first place, I assume its because its afraid or something.
I mean, not alot of news of the world outside would reach it, and perhaps it still believed that the army of the valar were outside ready to slay it at first appearance

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Or else he/she/it chose to keep out of Sauron's way. It may not have wanted to be used and exploited by him like so many other beings and creatures were used by both Morgoth and Sauron.

But hadn't they (the Balrogs) willingly joined Morgoth? Would they have had the strength of will to turn away from Morgoth?

Originally Posted by Rumil

I've wondered if the Balrog had gone into some sort of hibernation in the long years between the end of the First Age and the dwarves' delving.

Hibernation sounds like a good idea. This has also brought a more rudimentary question to my mind: Do Balrogs have wings... er.... I mean...Do Balrogs need to eat? Or for that matter, can they eat? Do they even have mouths?

[Bêthberry]

Wouldn't any fiery creature want to stay deep below the water table? After all, there were floodwaters by the Gate of Moria wherein dwelt the Watcher in the Water.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Eonwe

But hadn't they (the Balrogs) willingly joined Morgoth? Would they have had the strength of will to turn away from Morgoth?

It's pure presumption, but I'd imagine that if you were the last of your kind lurking around Middle-earth then you might be a bit annoyed about the rest of your kin having been wiped out and might start to feel a bit 'used'.

Like Doctor Who is when he returned as the 10th Doctor - he's a bit angry that he's the last one left. As you would be.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Which is precisely why in 2483 3rd Age was founded the MeSPCB, the Middle-earth Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Balrogs, as a proposed remedy for such exploitation. Unfortunately, all the attendees of the first meeting were incinerated by the guest of honor.

I should imagine they were not short of a box of matches when it came time for their smoke break though

[Gordis]

The last thread on Balrog I have participated in came to a following conclusion :

So..in summary.

Lazy, slothful, slack, proud, stubborn, a self-centred she-Balrog, with potential history of love interests / issues...

Liked a sleep, had all her Best Orcs guarding her fiery teddy bear in an inner chamber... exceptional hearing..could hear a rock drop from miles away.. perhaps explaining her insomnia??

EMO She-Barlog

[Galadriel55]

I agree with Rumil. I think that the Balrog went into hybernation for the larger part of the 2 epoch. I think that it was waken by Sauron's willpower when Sauron was gaining strength to fight with Gil-Galad and Elendil. I think that he kind of summoned, and if not, then simply "awoke" all the evil that he could possibly get working. Sauron's first step was to become the master of all evil in M-e, so that he would overpower the good aries. However, the Balrog did not obey his will, and my reasoning for that is Balrog is almost as powerful as Sauron - he, as well as all the Balrogs, were once maiar. Sauron was the most powerful maia under Morgoth's rule (according to the Silmarillion), but I guess that Balrog comes very close. So, instead of joining Sauron's army, he just woke up.