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Old 03-06-2004, 03:55 AM   #1
Fingolfin II
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Two statements game

Basically the rules are that you say two statements and ask a question about them and the answer/s must be of people who are fairly closely related by blood or marriage.

That means no second- or third-cousins, etc. Great-great-great-great-grandfathers/uncles/aunts are acceptable, but try and keep them fairly closely related. Also, half-grand uncles etc. are acceptable because of Feanor, Fingolfin and Finarfin being related in this way.

Anyway, here goes:

1) He could see all, yet oft truth was from him hid.

AND

2) He is the bane of the Two Fathers.

Who are these people and how are they related?
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Old 03-06-2004, 10:19 AM   #2
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This is very difficult and I'm a little confused.
Is it that the two answers have to be related through family ties or by association.
Apologies if this seems obvious!
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Old 03-06-2004, 08:11 PM   #3
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Yeah, it is a bit confusing lol. Kath, you're right about familial ties or by association. So any guesses?
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Old 03-07-2004, 07:31 AM   #4
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denethor and ?

i dont know the other one
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:42 PM   #5
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Denethor and the Balrog of Khazad-Dum
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Old 03-07-2004, 09:56 PM   #6
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Nope, not Denethor and the Balrog of Khazad-dum, though they are correct I suppose in their own right. However, they aren't related. So here's a hint: they are father and son. The second one is *slightly* disputed, but it's still clear.
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Old 03-07-2004, 09:58 PM   #7
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Denethor and Boromir?
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Old 03-07-2004, 11:54 PM   #8
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Nope- think First Age characters.
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Old 03-08-2004, 04:45 AM   #9
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Thanks for the explanation.
I will now reshow my stupidity in this guess.
Illuvatar and Morgoth
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Old 03-08-2004, 08:07 AM   #10
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i think its Turgon and one of the sons
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Old 03-08-2004, 10:02 AM   #11
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Hurin and Turin?
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Old 03-09-2004, 12:26 AM   #12
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Congrats, Miriel it is Hurin and Turin! Statement 1 is referring to Hurin being tortured by Morgoth in Angband and seeing all that's happening to his kin, except he doesn't see any of the good stuff that is happening, thus the truth is hidden from him.

Statement 2 is referring to Turin, the bane of the Two Fathers: He is the bane of Glaurung, the Father of Dragons, and Melkor, the Father of Evil. Next time plz justify your answer, but well done. Your shot.
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Old 03-09-2004, 05:19 PM   #13
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May i ask how Turin is the bane of Melkor? they have never even met, let alone Melkor talking about him (nothing in book)
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Old 03-09-2004, 11:23 PM   #14
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As I said, it is kind of disputed, but Mandos made a Prophecy about the Last Battle when Morgoth comes back through the Door of Night and is slain by Turin. It's in the Book of Lost Tales and The Shaping of Middle-Earth. Also, theres a reference to Dagor Dragorath in UT and are several references to the Last Battle in the Silmarillion.
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Old 03-10-2004, 11:55 PM   #15
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Miriel- your turn.
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Old 03-12-2004, 12:20 AM   #16
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Dark-Eye Should I go *poke*, or should I go *bump*?

I know...I'll shout.

Miriel!
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Old 03-12-2004, 02:09 PM   #17
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*jerks into wakefulness* Hrmmphh?

Oh yeah, sorry, forgot. *Sigh* ... it's fun to work it out but not so good trying to make one up...

Well, I'm awful at this sort of stuff, so be merciful.


Disfigurement within a fair outside was never preferred.

In last two years sees withdrawal of good follow rise of evil.
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Old 03-12-2004, 05:42 PM   #18
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Eowyn and Theoden?
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:30 AM   #19
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Nope.
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:34 AM   #20
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ARWEN AND ELROND?
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:57 AM   #21
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No.

And you'd probably be best to explain the answer, as I'll ask you to do so if you get it right.
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Old 03-13-2004, 10:44 PM   #22
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Hints?
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:00 AM   #23
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Okay ...

'Disfigurement within a fair outside' is cryptic. All the rest is straight clues. And you're looking for one Third Ager, and one Third/Fourth Ager. And they're not Elves.

That'll do for now.
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Old 03-15-2004, 03:08 PM   #24
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Is the first one Saruman?
Reason being he seems good but is in fact evil.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:32 PM   #25
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Shield

Herm...dunno...are they Faramir and Denethor?

Denethor saw the rise of evil in his last two years and Faramir was fair on the inside and outside.
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:07 AM   #26
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Oooh ... very close, Arvedui. The first one is indeed Faramir. ('mar', which can be a noun meaning disfigurement or blemish, within the letters fa ir - a 'fair outside', and the 'never preferred' referring to his father's preference of Boromir.)
Denethor isn't the other one, though. And, hint: 'last two years' doesn't necessarily refer to the last two years of the person's life. Think what 'withdrawal of good' might refer to.
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Old 03-16-2004, 03:20 PM   #27
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Faramir and Boromir?
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Old 03-16-2004, 03:23 PM   #28
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Nope.
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:20 PM   #29
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Faramir And Eowyn. She's had two years of tending her king in growing fear under Grima.
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Old 03-18-2004, 11:38 AM   #30
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No. More hints?
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Old 03-18-2004, 03:25 PM   #31
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Faramir and Finduilas?
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Old 03-19-2004, 11:58 AM   #32
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No ... okay, big hint ... the person you're looking for was a Steward of Gondor. 'Last two years' refers to the last two years of his rule.

So, now just consider 'withdrawal of good'. And check all the stewards somewhere near Faramir.
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Old 03-19-2004, 04:38 PM   #33
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Faramir and Echthelion II?
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Old 03-20-2004, 07:15 AM   #34
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No.

Okay, I'm getting bored of this.

The Steward in question saw, in his last two years, Sauron's openly declaring himself in Mordor, and Saruman withdrawing to Isengard.

So who is it, and what's his relationship with Faramir?

Should be easy now.
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Old 03-21-2004, 12:47 PM   #35
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Silmaril

I'm going to throw in a ballpark guess- We've already got Faramir, and I'm assuming the Steward in question is Gandalf (what with his statement to Denathor "did you not know" and all of that). The relationship is one of mutual love, but more as between a teacher and student than that of father and son. If I'm right, please allow someone else with more creativity than me ask the next.

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Old 03-21-2004, 01:31 PM   #36
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No ... not Gandalf ... an actual Steward of Gondor.

Come on guys! I've practically told you it...
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Old 03-21-2004, 01:42 PM   #37
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It's Turgon. He is Faramir's great-grandfather.
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Old 03-21-2004, 01:55 PM   #38
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*cheers!!!!*

Correct.
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Old 03-21-2004, 02:42 PM   #39
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Sting

Thanks Miriel! I love guessing these, but I hate writing them - oh well.

Fell Fire slain in Flame.

and

Cave Hewer dies defending friend.
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Old 03-21-2004, 11:59 PM   #40
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Finrod and Maedhros? Finrod was the hewer of caves ('Felagund') and died to save his friend Beren, and Maedhros killed himself by throwing his body into a chasm filled with fire.
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