the movie balrog

[Eressië Ailin]

Ai! Ai! A Balrog wing discussion is come!

LOL! Indeed it has, Saucepan man.

and they should NOT have made it with wings.

i agree that they should not have given it wings

as you guys probably know there's not deliberate mention of wings in the book.

It probably shouldn't have had wings though

I am amazed at the number of people who thought that Balrogs didn't have wings. We know that the Moria Balrog had wings, but we have no such information on other Balrogs.

The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall

~FoTR, Chapter 5, The Bridge of Khazad-dûm.

[Minyataurien]

"What it was could not be seen: it was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and to go before it."

Well first off it says maybe, so that doesn't make accurate proof that Balrogs are indeed manlike. Also even if was man shape, the Balrog in the movie is gargoyle-like, which is pretty much a man/beast creature. It also says man-shaped, not man-headed, so a bull-like head should not be considered wrong. I do believe though, Balrogs do not have wings and do not like that they added them.

[ March 28, 2003: Message edited by: Minyataurien ]

[Dininziliel]

Of all the things so far that has been adapted from the book to the screen, Mr. Balrog de Moria surpassed my expectations. It (and do we know the gender?) may be slightly or greatly different than the book described (seems like it's not all that big a difference, though)--no matter. I have watched FotR on DVD more than I care to count and I grow more and more in awe of that balrog. It conveys everything I felt in the book.

Thanks for the opportunity to give props to that ol' balrog!

[obloquy]

The Balrog of Moria, to me, was always darker, more sinister. Not beastlike at all, but almost...noble, in an evil kind of way. Proud. And I think one of its most terrifying qualities was its assured silence. No threats, no bad guy wit, just a purely dark being with a countenance so stark and devoid of any kind of 'nonsense' that it chilled me more than any other creature in Tolkien's writings.

The movie balrog was cool, sure, but everytime I heard its Jurassic Park T-Rex impression I lost a little more respect for it, and every time its blackness was betrayed by excessive amounts of flame and fireworks I saw the utter nightmare of a supremely wicked enemy cheapened in predictable blockbuster film fashion.

The Balrogs probably differed in appearance one from another, much like Elves and Men. Gothmog would probably be the size of the Balrog at Khazad Dum or bigger, but there might have been smaller Balrogs. At least half a dozen Balrogs were slain in Gondolin by Tuor and Ecthelion alone, i doubt they could kill that many Balrogs if they were all as massive as the one in Moria. And Tolkien did describe them somewhere as about twice the height of a man or elf. I think that description was in the battle between Glorfindel and the Balrog in the mountains near Gondolin. But i'm not 100% sure, and i don't have that book handy.

I'm quoting from memory, so pardon any marring I may do to the original text.

". . . It was of man-shape maybe, but greater; and a power seemed to go before it . . ."

The Balrog was undoubtedly bipedal, and, if I recall correctly, the text did include something pertaining to wings of a sort "that spread from wall to wall" (rough quote). The Balrog depicted in the movies was more or less accurate, save for the exaggeration/misinterpretation of its size; but I don't remember a single instance in which Tolkien referred to horns.

But with the wonderful job the animators did in making the Balrog realistic, almost tangible, I don't see why we're complaining. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Balin999]

It's strange but it seems that many questions of the people who have posted in the second part of the thread could have been answered if those people had read the first part of the thread.

Does anyone remember in FOTR, Saruman's book with the drawing of the Balrog?

I think that this drawing is either done by Alan Lee or John Howe, at least I'm 100% sure that I have seen it before the movie. But yes, it's really cool.

For my part I always thought that the Balrog was not THAT big and more man-like. But then I saw many pictures of Balrogs being more like a huge demon (though I never doubted that they had wings). But I Don't want to discuss if they had wings or not. For me, they always had wings, basta!
And I liked the movie Balrog, allthough it was annoying that he made those noises when he shouldn't. BUt he was somewhat impressive.

[the guy who be short]

Please lets not turn this into a wing discussion. We're discussing the ccuracy of the Balrog in the movies EXCEPT for whether it had wings or not.

The Balrog of Moria, to me, was always darker, more sinister. Not beastlike at all, but almost...noble, in an evil kind of way. Proud. And I think one of its most terrifying qualities was its assured silence. No threats, no bad guy wit, just a purely dark being with a countenance so stark and devoid of any kind of 'nonsense' that it chilled me more than any other creature in Tolkien's writings.

I also felt this. I imagined it as man high, with no clear form but a shadow instead. I imagined the shadow as the centre of the Balrog, and flames all around it (however, I have just read somewhere in HoME that its the other way round - inside of fire, outside of shadow). Also, it's silence, as Obluquy mentioned. I never thought about it before, but in my mind that did make it extremely powerful. Also, I imagined it very confidently walking up to the bridge, knowing nothing could go wrong. This also made it seem powerful.

Found the quote. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

These were the first made of his creatures: their hearts were of fire, but they were cloaked in darkness, and terror went before them...

HoME 10, Morgoth's Ring, Page 159 Paragraph One, Lines 9-11 (Hardback edition).

Therefore, both my idea of it and the movie were wrong, because the Balrogs fire was actually inside it, and the shadow outside.

[Aragost]

The Balrog in the movie did resemble humans in a way, it had legs, arms, a face with eyes, a nose, and a mouth. And not all maiar resembled men they could take any form they wanted, but the istari came in the forms of men to make it easier to deal with the enemies of Sauron. Being maiar though they would have the power to take other forms but they did not use it.

[Finwe]

I always imagined Balrogs as being creatures of flame and shadow. Not quite man-like, but not completely without a definite body. I had always imagined Balrogs with wings. In the Silmarillion, when Ungoliantë snared Morgoth in her webs, it is said that Balrogs "flew" to his rescue after hearing his scream (A Dark Lord, screaming? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] ).
If they didn't have wings, then they wouldn't have been able to get there in time to save Morgoth from being munched. (mental picture [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )

[the guy who be short]

there are two simultaneous threads on this discussion. I opened this thread before I knew about the search function. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
see: this thread

[StarJewel]

The only thing I thought should be changed about the movie Balrog was its face. I never pictured a demon with the face of a demented bull.