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[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

3. Aerandir sailed with Earendil - first mentioned of his companions so maybe the second in line? But for the elements, I can only offer 'aer' (occuring twice in the heart of 'wearyhearted.')

You're correct that the Mariner is Earendil, but this isn't one of his sailing companions.

For the new page:

1. I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

6. Giants or stone-giants? Gandalf says he might enlist the help of a more or less decent giant to refill a chasm or something, while they are crossing the Misty Mountains en route to Erebor.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

You're correct that the Mariner is Earendil, but this isn't one of his travelling companions

hS

Damn! And after I'd found 'drain' in Aerandir as well as 'aer.'

meeting of man and Eru

Manure!

Well, it's well-known that M-e both needed and had it:

AULE: Nonetheless, they will have need of wood.
YAVANNA: And manure.

How else would their lettuces grow?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

6. Giants or stone-giants? Gandalf says he might enlist the help of a more or less decent giant to refill a chasm or something, while they are crossing the Misty Mountains en route to Erebor.

Correct! I think it's to block the Goblin Gate, though I wouldn't swear to it.

1. I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Damn! And after I'd found 'drain' in Aerandir as well as 'aer.'

meeting of man and Eru

Manure!

Well, it's well-known that M-e both needed and had it:

AULE: Nonetheless, they will have need of wood.
YAVANNA: And manure.

How else would their lettuces grow?

Love it. Not right, but love it.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

No cucumbers were there to match those of Ingwe in the Days of the Trees, for they were fertilised by the magical Dung of Araw's Kine.

I think 2 is ONODRIM, except the onion is tailless rather than headless. Is the are we / ent we saying include I'M?

I tried to find the singular of Onodrim ... would it be onod?

(Although knowing tricksy Huinesoron, it's probably a shallot or something, not 'onion' at all).

[Huinesoron]

You're very close to the right answer on multiple fronts, but it's not Onodrim or Onod (I think that is the singular, yes). Onion is neither onion nor shallot, but another synonym, or rather descriptor (and does need to be headless). You're right that there is a somewhat loose Entish connection.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

You're very close to the right answer on multiple fronts, but it's not Onodrim or Onod (I think that is the singular, yes). Onion is neither onion nor shallot, but another synonym, or rather descriptor (and does need to be headless). You're right that there is a somewhat loose Entish connection.

hS

Well, I've tried, but neither bulb nor vegetable nor allium cepa are very helpful.

Huorn or troll/olog seem the likeliest answers, but I cannot find the elements to build them from.

[Huinesoron]

Actually, one of those is extremely helpful.

Try putting them in the sentence.

hS

[Nerwen]

Allium, minus the first syllable and backwards = Muil, as in the Emyn Muil- but I can't account for the rest of it.

[Pervinca Took]

hS said put it in a sentence.

'The mule and I' might work if M-e had any centaurs!

And it sounds like Mjolnir, but isn't that Norse?

[Pervinca Took]

Mewlips?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Allium, minus the first syllable and backwards = Muil, as in the Emyn Muil- but I can't account for the rest of it.

Ah, are we going back to the idea of Sam tying his rope around an elderly Entwife?

Allium will not help you. And to the previous post, neither Huorn nor any form of troll are correct.

The pre-semicolon part of the clue is cryptic; the latter part is... kind of straight.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

hS said put it in a sentence.

'The mule and I' might work if M-e had any centaurs!

And it sounds like Mjolnir, but isn't that Norse?

I said put it in the sentence, which you've done... but not with Allium. (It's not the Mewlips, either.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Wondering if the theme is stone.

And if 5 is RAMMAS.

[Pervinca Took]

2 seems to have bits of ARGONATH, but in the wrong part of the clue (the bit hS says isn't really cryptic).

Could password be STONES?

[Pervinca Took]

'Bagme Bloma, '

Trying to put the the last bit of 'bulb' backwards ...

'or*Flowers of the Trees, is a poem written by*J.R.R. Tolkien*in*Gothic. It was published in*Songs for the Philologists. It tells of the strength of the*birch, defier of wind and lightning.[1]'

[edit]*Poem

The text reads as follows:[2]

Brûnáim baíriþ baírka bôgum*
láubans liubans liudandei,*
gilwagrôni, glitmunjandei,*
bagmê blôma, blauandei,*
fagrafahsa, liþulinþi,*
fráujinôndei fairguni.

Wôpjand windôs, wagjand lindôs,*
lûtiþ limam láikandei;*
slaíhta, raíhta, hveitarinda,*
razda rôdeiþ reirandei,*
bandwa baírhta, rûna gôda,*
þiuda meina þiuþjandei.

Andanahti milhmam neipiþ,*
liuhteiþ liuhmam laúhmuni;*
láubos liubái fliugand láusái,*
tulgus, triggwa, standandei.*
Baírka baza beidiþ bláika*
fráujinôndei faírguni.

[edit]*External links

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Wondering if the theme is stone.

And if 5 is RAMMAS.

No and no.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

2 seems to have bits of ARGONATH, but in the wrong part of the clue (the bit hS says isn't really cryptic).

Could password be STONES?

And no and no.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

'Bagme Bloma, '

Trying to put the the last bit of 'bulb' backwards ...

'or*Flowers of the Trees, is a poem written by*J.R.R. Tolkien*in*Gothic. It was published in*Songs for the Philologists. It tells of the strength of the*birch, defier of wind and lightning.[1]'

And I thought I was being obscure! o.O That's a fantastic guess, and you're spot on to be looking at a headless bulb... but the answer isn't in Gothic (I believe it's in Qenya [sic]), and 'backwards we fall' just means that you want the last letter of the answer rather than the first.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

ULBANDI.

I needed Tolkien Gateway to find that one, too!

[Pervinca Took]

Perhaps GIANTS for the password?

[Huinesoron]

1. G I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. A Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. N But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. T From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

Well... when you're right, you're right!

Ulbandi is either the name of Morgoth's ogress consort and the mother of Gothmog, or the Qenya term for 'wood-giants' - though they probably ent Ents, as Treebeard would never say.

... but you've still got four to go, and Ulbandi was not the most obscure.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

4. Apparently there is a giant called NAN in Lost Tales 2. Well, nans tend to be old and female, and I presume this Nan had a sword.

Also the initials of 'not a number.'

[Pervinca Took]

1. GILIM is an anagram of Gimli ... and it saves the M (3rd letter) of Gimli until last.

[Pervinca Took]

5. TARLANG - TAR is used on roads and LANG could be a short form of 'language.'

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

4. Apparently there is a giant called NAN in Lost Tales 2. Well, nans tend to be old and female, and I presume this Nan had a sword.

Also the initials of 'not a number.'

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

1. GILIM is an anagram of Gimli ... and it saves the M (3rd letter) of Gimli until last.

Both correct, and correctly derived. They're both found in the Lay of Leithian, in Luthien's hair-lengthening song:

And all names of things
tallest and longest on earth she sings:
... Names she sought,
and sang of Glend, the sword of Nan;
of Gilim, the giant of Eruman;

Eruman = Eru + Man; I had to.

(If you want to get picky, there doesn't seem to be direct evidence that Nan is a giant - they could just be someone with a really big sword. Gilim, in contrast, is noted in the Tale of Tinuviel for the length of their neck.)

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

5. TARLANG - TAR is used on roads and LANG could be a short form of 'language.'

Also correct, and spot on for the cryptic half. According to - did I say obscure? - a deleted entry from Tolkien's Guide to Names, Tarlang was a giant involved in building the White Mountains. He tripped and broke his neck, and his body became part of the fabric of the mountains - hence, he both built and became them.

(I wonder now if there's any connection to Harfang, home of the Gentle Giants of Narnia?)

1. GILIM - I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. A Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. NAN - But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. TARLANG - From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

One to go! And it's far and away the most (or least?) obscure. I'll tell you know that 'second in line' means you're looking for the second letter in the name.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

And I tell you now I have no chance. All the others were on the Tolkien Gateway's 'Giants' page!

I guessed 'stone giants' from 'The Hobbit,' but then it was Tolkien Gateway to find something beginning with 'ulb.'

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

And I tell you now I have no chance. All the others were on the Tolkien Gateway's 'Giants' page!

I guessed 'stone giants' from 'The Hobbit,' but then it was Tolkien Gateway to find something beginning with 'ulb.'

Ah, the risk of passwording with such a limited category.

The last one is found in a poem, I believe located in The Lays of Beleriand. The clue hints (in no particular order) at the poem, the name, and the line it's found in.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

There are the OARNI, (the water spirits), but I don't think they're giants.

Oh, and Nan's sword is called Glend.

[Huinesoron]

Not those. Oarni are... well, 'mermaids' in one translation, but for consistency with what we understand about Middle-earth, they're best thought of as proto-Maiar. Not to say they couldn't be fish-tailed women if they really wanted, but...

(I mean, they could probably be giants, too, if they really put their minds to it. But, again, but.)

So far as I can tell, this character isn't mentioned on either Tolkien Gateway or the Encyclopedia of Arda. He does have a Wikipedia article, though!

His name is actually a relatively common English word.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I looked at all the second lines in the Lays of Beleriand, and all through the glossary at the back of that volume, and found nothing but the Oarni and the name of Nan's sword.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I looked at all the second lines in the Lays of Beleriand, and all through the glossary at the back of that volume, and found nothing but the Oarni and the name of Nan's sword.

You don't need the second line, you need the second letter in the name. I think it's the seventh line of the fragment it's in.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I know I need the 2nd letter, but you also said the clue hinted at the line number, and I could not see any number hint but 'second,' so thought it referred to both things.

Googling Glend to check I'd got the name of Nan's sword right, I found a link to a Downs thread on obscure characters. I think it mentions some giants:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18935

I might read it after rechecking the L.O.B.

[Pervinca Took]

Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted, from a fragment of the Lay of Earendel.

How can we deduce that he was a giant, though? Unless it's on a later line ... don't have time to read on now.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted, from a fragment of the Lay of Earendel.

Bingo!

1. GILIM - I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. WADE - Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. NAN - But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. TARLANG - From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

And thus ends what may well be the most obscure password to date. 'Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted' is actually a deleted line from the Earendil poem; quite what he was doing there, Tolkien never said.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

How can we deduce that he was a giant, though? Unless it's on a later line ... don't have time to read on now.

It's not in the poem; Wade is a primary-world mythological character, seen here. There are stones at Whitby said to be the grave of a sea-giant by that name, and the article for his son Wayland confirms that the Thidrekssaga describes Wade as a giant.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I know I need the 2nd letter, but you also said the clue hinted at the line number, and I could not see any number hint but 'second,' so thought it referred to both things.

Yeah, 'wearyhearted' was the line hint, as I think you got.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Googling Glend to check I'd got the name of Nan's sword right, I found a link to a Downs thread on obscure characters. I think it mentions some giants:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18935

I might read it after rechecking the L.O.B.

That is a fascinating thread. I think I may have to pester it back into life; I've already got a theory that 'the dirk of Nargil/the knife of the North in Nogrod smithied' looks like a reference to Angrist, and I love the world-cleaving falchion of lightning. ^_^

And so, over to you, Pervinca Took, and well-earned.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Another original theme and another great password!

I have a few ready and will post one shortly, when I'm back at my laptop.

(Looking through the Index at the back of the 'Lays of Beleriand,' I actually found that I'd written anagram marginalia in pencil ... I mean, not that I'm addicted to this thread or anything like that ....)

[Pervinca Took]

1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
4. In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
7. He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
8. See him where the puma glories in his speed.

[Galadriel55]

4. Amrod?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
7. He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
8. See him where the puma glories in his speed.

[Galadriel55]

8. Maglor


Evidently my mind is not set on anagrams

[Pervinca Took]

1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
7. He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
MAGLOR: See him where the puma glories in his speed.

[Galadriel55]

Password NERDANEL?