Tuor's dream - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Alda · 07-05-2004, 10:05 AM

Forgive me if this subject has been brought up before. I searched and found no reference to it. It concerns a paragraph from Unfinished Tales that a friend and I have been discussing, and has become entertaining to dwell on.

After Tuor had received the mantle from Ulmo, and was seeking shelter from the storm that raged against the walls of Nevrast, the story says he "sat nightlong in the stone seat of Turgon".

Quote:

Yet being weary he slept at times, and his sleep was troubled with many dreams, of which naught remained in waking memory save one: a vision of an isle, and in the midst of it was a steep mountain, and behind it the sun went down, and shadows sprang into the sky; but above it there shone a single dazzling star.

Was this the Isle of Numenor that Tuor was dreaming about? A vision of The Land of Gift, before the gift was given? Could the dazzling star he sees be Earendil?

What I have found most entertaining is mulling over the possible origins of the dream. Did Tuor posess foresight? Was the dream a boon granted by Ulmo? My heart skipped a beat when I thought of the possibility that Olorin might have provided the vision.

Well just some thoughts, any ideas on the subject would be appreciated.

Kuruharan · 07-05-2004, 12:56 PM

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head on both counts.

I think that Ulmo probably had the most to do with it. Tuor had just spoken to him and was wearing his cloak, etc…

Osse · 07-07-2004, 04:09 AM

Indeed, I too was always under the impression that Tuor's dream was indeed sent by the Lord of Waters, and was also regarding the Isle of Numenor...

I however hadn't really thought that the star was Earendil with the silmaril, however, now i think about it, makes just as much sense as it being but a general representation of the growth and icon of the kingdom...

Welcome Alda btw!

Mänwe · 12-30-2006, 01:38 PM

Alda when I read that passage you seem to hold the same thoughts as I and the others here as to the origins of the dream. Though of note in the Index to the book is the following;

“Meneltarma Mountain in the midst of Númenor, on whose summit was the Hallow of Eru Ilúvatar (see Eru). 41 (unnamed in Tuor’s dream)…” (Index, Unfinished Tales)

It would seem that you are right to think it is the Isle of Númenor you see. Also it is said that;

“…when the Edain first set sail upon the Great Sea, following the Star to Númenor, the Elvish ships that bore them were each steered and captained by one of the Eldar deputed by Círdan;…” (Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin, Unfinished Tales)

“the Star” if referred again to the Index under Eärendil is referring to his ship carrying the Silmaril. As for why he had the dream I do not want to be completely boring by agreeing with what has been said; that Ulmo sent him the vision. Why would Ulmo send him a vision of Númenor when he had previously shown him Valinor?

Osse would know..

07-05-2004, 12:56 PM	#2
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,639	I think you’ve hit the nail on the head on both counts. I think that Ulmo probably had the most to do with it. Tuor had just spoken to him and was wearing his cloak, etc… __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

07-07-2004, 04:09 AM	#3
Osse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Encircling Sea, deciding which ship to ruin next...could be yours. Posts: 274	Indeed, I too was always under the impression that Tuor's dream was indeed sent by the Lord of Waters, and was also regarding the Isle of Numenor... I however hadn't really thought that the star was Earendil with the silmaril, however, now i think about it, makes just as much sense as it being but a general representation of the growth and icon of the kingdom... Welcome Alda btw! __________________ 'A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot system like democracy. At least HE could tell the people he was THEIR fault.'

12-30-2006, 01:38 PM	#4
Mänwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: May as well be the Arctic Circle Posts: 291	In addition.. Alda when I read that passage you seem to hold the same thoughts as I and the others here as to the origins of the dream. Though of note in the Index to the book is the following; “Meneltarma Mountain in the midst of Númenor, on whose summit was the Hallow of Eru Ilúvatar (see Eru). 41 (unnamed in Tuor’s dream)…” (Index, Unfinished Tales) It would seem that you are right to think it is the Isle of Númenor you see. Also it is said that; “…when the Edain first set sail upon the Great Sea, following the Star to Númenor, the Elvish ships that bore them were each steered and captained by one of the Eldar deputed by Círdan;…” (Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin, Unfinished Tales) “the Star” if referred again to the Index under Eärendil is referring to his ship carrying the Silmaril. As for why he had the dream I do not want to be completely boring by agreeing with what has been said; that Ulmo sent him the vision. Why would Ulmo send him a vision of Númenor when he had previously shown him Valinor? Osse would know.. __________________ "I am, I fear, a most unsatisfactory person." - (Letter #124 To Sir Stanley Unwin)