What is a "Bounder" ??? Pls read on: - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

04-22-2002, 11:28 AM

This is from the Fellowship Of THe Ring
Chapter 2 Shadows Of THe Past page 48

"All the same,"said Sam,"you cant deny that others besides our Halfast have seen queer folk crossing the Shire-crossing it mind you:there are more that are turned back at the borders.The Bounders have never been so busy before.

Now my question is who or what are the Bounders ???? pls help me by answering the question thank you [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Orodhromeus · 04-22-2002, 02:29 PM

Welcome jimithing_36

I guess bounders is the same with boundaries, frontiers, borders, edges of the Shire. Bounders has the same root with boundaries, and in this context it's logical to think it means borders.

Voronwe · 04-22-2002, 03:50 PM

What the Bounders were is explained in the Prologue. They were basically Shirriffs whose job was to control the entry of 'outsiders' to the shire at border crossings:

Quote:

A rather larger body, varying at need, was employed to 'beat the bounds', and to see that Outsiders of any kind, great or small, did not make themselves a nuisance.
At the time when this story begins the Bounders, as they were called, had been greatly increased.

***Mithadan*** · 04-23-2002, 03:57 PM

Slight correction to Voronwe's otherwise accurate response. The Bounders are the outsiders referred to in his quote, not the Shirrifs. Bounder - One who crosses boundaries.

Halfir · 05-03-2002, 10:12 AM

I suspect the Bounders of The Shire had a two-fold function. The first one is that described in the Prologue to FOTR , which is effectively a 'policing function' to make sure that the 'wrong sort' don't get into the Shire.

The second function is implicit in their name. It was a tradition in medieval England, that every May Day (I am not absolutely certain of the date but it was certainly in May) the 'bounds' or perimeters of landholding were 'beaten'- to establish and confirm boundary distinctions - land in those days being granted by charter from the Crown or feudal overlord. As land was such a precious commodity, exact boundaries were important to landowners and villages.

An interesting aspect of the ceremony was that at every important point along the boundary the local boys were beaten or thrown into the village pond, so that in later life, if boundary disputes arose, they would have a very clear memory of what the boundaries were!

While Tolkien does not explicitly refer to this practice and aspect of bounding, I suspect that given his extensive philological knowledge, he had this image also in mind when he wrote.

Birdland · 05-03-2002, 11:04 AM

eeeep...can't believe I'm doing this...but I...disagree with Mithadan! (Birdie runs and hides!)

The Bounders were the hobbits patrolling the boundries, not the outsiders.

Nevtalathiel · 05-03-2002, 11:23 AM

This could be interesting Birdland, Maybe I'll watch this space for the amusement value, mhua ha ha [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

***Mithadan*** · 05-03-2002, 11:53 AM

WHAT!!!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!! ME? WRONG?

Well, maybe.... Hmmmm. OED time.

Bounder, Also Bownder, Boundier, 1. One who sets out or marks out bounds or limits... 1610 Holland, Camden's Brit. I. 745 Umpiers and Bounders between diverse shires...

A Barrow Cookie for Birdland (don't mind the mold)! I keep telling people not to assume my take on things is invariably correct without question or debate. Its really annoying, actually, to make a comment in a thread and have that thread suddenly end as if some kind of authority had spoken.

Rimbaud · 05-03-2002, 12:11 PM

Well, that settles that then.
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Nevtalathiel · 05-03-2002, 12:11 PM

Oh, no one got killed !!! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

piosenniel · 05-03-2002, 01:04 PM

mae govannen, jimithing_36! welcome to the downs - have fun!

Birdland · 05-03-2002, 10:28 PM

I'm right! I'm right! (Birdie does the "I'm Right Springle Ring!")

Thanks for the cookie, Mithadan! (Accck! Ppphhhttt!) It's...uh....(choke)...Barrow Downs delicious.

04-22-2002, 11:28 AM	#1
jimithing_36 Guest Posts: n/a	What is a "Bounder" ??? Pls read on: This is from the Fellowship Of THe Ring Chapter 2 Shadows Of THe Past page 48 "All the same,"said Sam,"you cant deny that others besides our Halfast have seen queer folk crossing the Shire-crossing it mind you:there are more that are turned back at the borders.The Bounders have never been so busy before. Now my question is who or what are the Bounders ???? pls help me by answering the question thank you [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

04-23-2002, 03:57 PM	#4
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,314	Slight correction to Voronwe's otherwise accurate response. The Bounders are the outsiders referred to in his quote, not the Shirrifs. Bounder - One who crosses boundaries. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

05-03-2002, 10:12 AM	#5
Halfir Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Thailand Posts: 41	I suspect the Bounders of The Shire had a two-fold function. The first one is that described in the Prologue to FOTR , which is effectively a 'policing function' to make sure that the 'wrong sort' don't get into the Shire. The second function is implicit in their name. It was a tradition in medieval England, that every May Day (I am not absolutely certain of the date but it was certainly in May) the 'bounds' or perimeters of landholding were 'beaten'- to establish and confirm boundary distinctions - land in those days being granted by charter from the Crown or feudal overlord. As land was such a precious commodity, exact boundaries were important to landowners and villages. An interesting aspect of the ceremony was that at every important point along the boundary the local boys were beaten or thrown into the village pond, so that in later life, if boundary disputes arose, they would have a very clear memory of what the boundaries were! While Tolkien does not explicitly refer to this practice and aspect of bounding, I suspect that given his extensive philological knowledge, he had this image also in mind when he wrote. __________________ I have not fed my readers with straw, neither will I be confuted with stubble

05-03-2002, 11:23 AM	#7
Nevtalathiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The depths of delusion Posts: 374	This could be interesting Birdland, Maybe I'll watch this space for the amusement value, mhua ha ha [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] __________________ "You can go a long way with a smile. You can go even further with a smile and a gun." - Al Capone

05-03-2002, 11:53 AM	#8
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,314	WHAT!!!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!! ME? WRONG? Well, maybe.... Hmmmm. OED time. Bounder, Also Bownder, Boundier, 1. One who sets out or marks out bounds or limits... 1610 Holland, Camden's Brit. I. 745 Umpiers and Bounders between diverse shires... A Barrow Cookie for Birdland (don't mind the mold)! I keep telling people not to assume my take on things is invariably correct without question or debate. Its really annoying, actually, to make a comment in a thread and have that thread suddenly end as if some kind of authority had spoken. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

04-22-2002, 02:29 PM	#2
Orodhromeus Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greece Posts: 106	Welcome jimithing_36 I guess bounders is the same with boundaries, frontiers, borders, edges of the Shire. Bounders has the same root with boundaries, and in this context it's logical to think it means borders.

05-03-2002, 11:04 AM	#6
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,757	eeeep...can't believe I'm doing this...but I...disagree with Mithadan! (Birdie runs and hides!) The Bounders were the hobbits patrolling the boundries, not the outsiders.

05-03-2002, 12:11 PM	#9
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,096	Well, that settles that then. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ And all the rest is literature

05-03-2002, 01:04 PM	#11
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,816	mae govannen, jimithing_36! welcome to the downs - have fun! __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

05-03-2002, 10:28 PM	#12
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,757	I'm right! I'm right! (Birdie does the "I'm Right Springle Ring!") Thanks for the cookie, Mithadan! (Accck! Ppphhhttt!) It's...uh....(choke)...Barrow Downs delicious.