Examples of Impact - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ainaserkewen · 02-17-2005, 05:44 PM

In almost every review and praise that can be found about Tolkien's world and all of his writings you will find some such phrase "It has changed the way we write and read fantasy."

After hours of searching not only this thread but various search engines web-wide I've failed to come to grips with this statement that everybody makes. I'm sure I believe the impact that LOTR made on the world, on it's art and history, but I can't find examples, real opinions as to why so many people believe this.

It was a milestone for literature in so many ways, but perhaps I've taken this too literally and such things are only said by critics to get across what a wonderful world of ideas it is.

Can anyone help me with examples?

Evisse the Blue · 02-18-2005, 12:17 AM

One example of this may be the number of fantasy writers that have decided to immitate Tolkien and write about imaginary worlds of their own, that showed a lot of resemblance to Middle Earth.
I'm sure others will come up with more valuable examples.

radagastly · 02-18-2005, 12:52 AM

The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings virtually invented Fantasy as a modern genre, seperate from Science Fiction (or Scientific Romance, as it was called back then.) There are, of course, other examples of Fantasy that pre-date the invention of Middle Earth, but none were literally set in their own world, but in some aspect of our own, whether it was the planet Mars or Venus of Edgar Rice Burroughs, which was reached from the earth, or Lilliput, reached by ship from England. These involve world-creation, but they are accessable from where we are (in theory, of course!)Also, nothing before it even attempted the level of detail that Tolkien put into his creation. That is, at least in part, what led it to be the fore-runner of the fantasy genre.

I'm afraid I can't give you any more answer than that. Many writers of Fantasy are aware of Tolkien's place in the creation of their genre, and I believe that is the main source of their citing him as such a profound influence. That and the detail with which he imbued his world. Many writers attempt (usually unsuccessfully) to duplicate that level of detail and realistic (or believable) millieu.

I'm sorry. I know you asked for specific examples, and I seem to have none that I can cite at the moment. If I think of any, I will return and post them.

Essex · 02-18-2005, 03:43 AM

I don't think I'm giving anything away here, but if you haven't read His Dark Materials you won't know what I'm going on about, so skip this post if you think you're going to read it at some stage

Quote:

Many writers of Fantasy are aware of Tolkien's place in the creation of their genre, and I believe that is the main source of their citing him as such a profound influence.

Yes, Radagastly, and even when some fantasy writers state that Tolkien's work has no real effect on them, they still nick his ideas to use in their books.

E.G. Phillip Pullman has been pretty negative (and I think patronsising) regarding his opinions on Lord of the Rings, but he doesn't mind stealing the end of LOTR (ie the Gray Havens) and using exactly the same idea in the end of his Trilogy.

Sorry, I've got a bee in my bonnet for any fantasy writer who slags LOTR off. Very childish, I know.......

Celebuial · 02-18-2005, 03:57 AM

I agree about the end of His Dark Materials and would like to point out that most books I've read after LOTR aeem to be copying Tolkien at some point. Some obvious examples are Stephen Donaldson's The Chronicles Of Thomas Covenant, and Rowling's Harry Potter, but even people like Stephen King (see The Dark Tower Books) have been known to 'copy'. Although some books are obvious copies with the Author adding nothing new of their own, others have created their own worlds and languages thanks to Tolkien's inspiration.

Essex · 02-18-2005, 05:34 AM

Yes, and Stephen King even goes so far to actually mention Frodo and Sam's trek across Mordor, and Cirith Ungol in his Dark Tower series.

02-17-2005, 05:44 PM	#1
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 651	Examples of Impact In almost every review and praise that can be found about Tolkien's world and all of his writings you will find some such phrase "It has changed the way we write and read fantasy." After hours of searching not only this thread but various search engines web-wide I've failed to come to grips with this statement that everybody makes. I'm sure I believe the impact that LOTR made on the world, on it's art and history, but I can't find examples, real opinions as to why so many people believe this. It was a milestone for literature in so many ways, but perhaps I've taken this too literally and such things are only said by critics to get across what a wonderful world of ideas it is. Can anyone help me with examples? __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken?

02-18-2005, 12:17 AM	#2
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	One example of this may be the number of fantasy writers that have decided to immitate Tolkien and write about imaginary worlds of their own, that showed a lot of resemblance to Middle Earth. I'm sure others will come up with more valuable examples. __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

02-18-2005, 12:52 AM	#3
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings virtually invented Fantasy as a modern genre, seperate from Science Fiction (or Scientific Romance, as it was called back then.) There are, of course, other examples of Fantasy that pre-date the invention of Middle Earth, but none were literally set in their own world, but in some aspect of our own, whether it was the planet Mars or Venus of Edgar Rice Burroughs, which was reached from the earth, or Lilliput, reached by ship from England. These involve world-creation, but they are accessable from where we are (in theory, of course!)Also, nothing before it even attempted the level of detail that Tolkien put into his creation. That is, at least in part, what led it to be the fore-runner of the fantasy genre. I'm afraid I can't give you any more answer than that. Many writers of Fantasy are aware of Tolkien's place in the creation of their genre, and I believe that is the main source of their citing him as such a profound influence. That and the detail with which he imbued his world. Many writers attempt (usually unsuccessfully) to duplicate that level of detail and realistic (or believable) millieu. I'm sorry. I know you asked for specific examples, and I seem to have none that I can cite at the moment. If I think of any, I will return and post them. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

02-18-2005, 03:57 AM	#5
Celebuial Wight Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cardiff during term time/Leicester in the holl's Posts: 129	I agree about the end of His Dark Materials and would like to point out that most books I've read after LOTR aeem to be copying Tolkien at some point. Some obvious examples are Stephen Donaldson's The Chronicles Of Thomas Covenant, and Rowling's Harry Potter, but even people like Stephen King (see The Dark Tower Books) have been known to 'copy'. Although some books are obvious copies with the Author adding nothing new of their own, others have created their own worlds and languages thanks to Tolkien's inspiration. __________________ Ú cilith ‘war. Ú men ‘war. Boe min mebi. Boe min bango.

02-18-2005, 05:34 AM	#6
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Yes, and Stephen King even goes so far to actually mention Frodo and Sam's trek across Mordor, and Cirith Ungol in his Dark Tower series.