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Old 02-27-2005, 04:05 PM   #1
Faramir
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Sting Best Fighter

I have had many arguments with other people about Aragorn not being the best fighter in lotr so im guessing most of you will say Aragorn is the best fighter so I'll leave him out.

Out of these canidates who is the best fighter??(If ive forgotten somone tell me)

1.Faramir
2.Elrond
3.Gimli
4.Eomer
5.Gamling
6.Pippin
7.Legolas
8.Hama
9.Eowyn
10.Sam
11.Boromir
13.Haldir
14.Merry
15.Gandlaf
16.Witchking
17.Gothmog
18.Madril
19.Theoden
20.Frodo

Last edited by Faramir; 02-27-2005 at 04:06 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:10 PM   #2
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Perhaps Gandalf and Witchy are on a different level. Aragorn was arguably a better fighter than all the rest though. I would only give Eomer, Boromir or Faramir a chance against him.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:25 PM   #3
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Glorfindel has them all beat flat.

Except for Gandalf and the Witchking. Quite frankly, like Aragorn, I would put those two off the list, simply because one's a Maia and the other's a Sauron-enhanced, no-man-can-kill-him, fighting machine...

Of course, judging by the fact that you put Madril on the list, this is movie-based, not book-based. I have no comment there. Comparing one movie fighter to another is too difficult for my untrained eyes.

Or...

wait!

The King of the Dead. Unstoppable.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:30 PM   #4
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Don't discount Elrond. He didn't fight in LOTR, but that does not mean he couldn't fight. He didn't because of the whole healing/killing thing that the elves have (if you kill it diminishes your power to heal).

I'm sure if it came down to it and Elrond had to pick up a sword he would be a force to reckon with. Never leave someone out of your plans when all his genes come from the likes of Fingolfin, Thingol, Hador, and Beren- not to mention an angelic being.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:32 PM   #5
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Nah, Elrond's a bit too old. A couple of rounds with 'Gorn and he'd need a rest.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:38 PM   #6
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Ha! In elf years he's probably younger than Aragorn.

And do you think it's a coincidence that Hugo W played him? Agent Smith. Only the chosen one, Anakin Skywalker, can defeat Elrond.

(I knew I could pack LOTR, SW, and Matrix into the same post)
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:41 PM   #7
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Well, if we look at all of Middle Earth history and discount Valar and Maiar then the strongest fighter, by far, was Feanor. Feanor has the distinction of being the only mortal to fight a Valar in melee combat. Though Feanor fell in that battle, that fact he could stand for even a short time says alot.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:45 PM   #8
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Mortal? Valar? You're confusing me Snorri, stop confusing me!

Seriously though, explain.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorri Swifthammer
Well, if we look at all of Middle Earth history and discount Valar and Maiar then the strongest fighter, by far, was Feanor. Feanor has the distinction of being the only mortal to fight a Valar in melee combat. Though Feanor fell in that battle, that fact he could stand for even a short time says alot.
What Vala was this?

The only one to fight a Vala that I know of is his half-brother Fingolfin, who faced Morgoth before the gates of Angband.

You must be confusing the two.

But if we are merely counting mortals, then we must eliminate all Elves from the list.

In which case, I herewith nominate Elendil, who half-killed (Gil-galad killed the other half) Sauron, WHILE he was wearing the Ring. The fact that he died himself would appear to be negligible.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:59 PM   #10
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Actually, Snorri, that was Fingolfin.

But Feanor certainly has a claim. He fought alone against multiple Balrogs (as well as their little orc soldiers) and lasted quite a while. If he were on the list, I would likely vote for Feanor.
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Seriously though, explain
I think by "mortal" he simply meant non Ainu.
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Old 02-28-2005, 02:34 PM   #11
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Silmaril

Had Faramir not explicitly stated "lotr", I would argue for Turin. However... I submit Faramir himself. Brute force does not always the best fighter make. Sometimes subtle strength coupled with intelligence goes a long way.
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Old 02-28-2005, 02:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
I would argue for Turin
And you'd probably be right. If I'm honest with myself I give him the edge over Feanor, but I vote Feanor first and Turin second just because Feanor is my favorite character in the world.

(and because my favorite Downer is named after him )
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Old 02-28-2005, 02:51 PM   #13
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Fingolfin!

Too many F names

By mortal I meant anything that is born to Middle Earth (Men, Dwarves, Elves) and not Ainu (Vala and Maiar).

If you can kill it, it ain't immortal.
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Old 02-28-2005, 02:54 PM   #14
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Silmaril

Quote:
(and because my favorite Downer is named after him )
*blushes*

And besides... I'm always right. Turin, despite being hated by Morgoth, cursed by Morgoth, working entirely against fate, generally disliked by many, somewhat prideful, and all that... he still managed to spend the vast majority of his time (except that whole outlaw situation) doing what he thought was right and kicking some serious butt doing it. And even when he was living with a band of outlaws and not being so nice, he became a member because in one smooth motion, he killed the "best" of the group. He's by default the best of them, and fated to be... *Fea trails off, knowing that everybody by now gets her point*.

But Faramir... I really like Faramir. And Faramir, by best fighter, did you mean hand-to-hand combat, or can we go with archers or mental fighting, because if we're working mentally, than Galadriel gets the win hands down for passing the test and not taking the Ring. And she's obviously a good fighter physically, since she and Celeborn fought together in Mirkwood.

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Last edited by Feanor of the Peredhil; 02-28-2005 at 02:57 PM. Reason: forgot appendices
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Old 02-28-2005, 03:01 PM   #15
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hand to hand and "archering" combat...mental combat can get difficult..
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Old 02-28-2005, 03:06 PM   #16
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because if we're working mentally, than Galadriel gets the win hands down for passing the test and not taking the Ring
Faramir didn't take the Ring either. Same thing with Elrond. It's likely that Elrond even handled the Ring in Rivendell while Frodo was knocked out (remember, he woke up to find the Ring on a new chain).
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Old 02-28-2005, 03:08 PM   #17
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possibly, but why cant gandalf touch the ring??
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Old 02-28-2005, 03:16 PM   #18
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Silmaril

Gandalf did touch the Ring. (or is this a movie memory?) In Bag End. But I discounted him in favor of Galadriel because part of why Galadriel came to ME in the first place was that she was looking for lands of her own. Gandalf was sent to aid and counsel. So even though he did have a mental battle to not take the Ring, it wasn't as strong as Galadriel's, since the Ring would have given her a whole slew of power to conquer Sauron, expand Lothlorien, and all that good stuff. Elrond had already shown he was willing to see it destroyed when he counselled Isildur to "throw it into the fire!!!". So... *there*.

But since Faramir says no to mental... I'm sticking with my Turin/Faramir.

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Old 02-28-2005, 03:23 PM   #19
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since the Ring would have given her a whole slew of power to conquer Sauron, expand Lothlorien, and all that good stuff
And the Ring also would've given Elrond a "whole slew of power to conquer Sauron", expand his realm, and "all that good stuff".
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Elrond had already shown he was willing to see it destroyed
Indeed, and his apparant lack of a mentle struggle with the Ring might be a sign of a greater mind.
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Old 02-28-2005, 04:56 PM   #20
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I'd say the best warrior was Tuor, bar none.

Who else among all the Children of Illuvatar has slain a Balrog and lived to tell the tale, let alone five in one day, and a dragon to boot.

BTW, how does the prospect of Balrogs riding dragons into battle strike you?
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:48 PM   #21
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I'm for Fingolfin (fave elf),

but,

what about Earendil? Surely downing Ancalagon the Black, who appears to have worried even Eonwe must be quite a feat. (Even with Vingilot and a Silmaril).
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Old 02-28-2005, 06:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumil
I'm for Fingolfin (fave elf),

but,

what about Earendil? Surely downing Ancalagon the Black, who appears to have worried even Eonwe must be quite a feat. (Even with Vingilot and a Silmaril).
You forgot he had eagles with 150'+ wingspans flying support for him.
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Old 02-28-2005, 07:37 PM   #23
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lets say we throw in mental "combat" who would be the top five? my guess would be:

1.Sauron
2.Galadriel
3.Elrond
4.Gandalf
5.Saruman
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Old 02-28-2005, 11:53 PM   #24
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Sting

No way would Gandalf be under Galadriel and Elrond.

And about Tuor killing Balrogs- the ones he killed were watered down versions of what most people think of when they see "Balrog" (they think of LOTR Durin's Bane). Back when Tolkien wrote that about Tuor there were bunches of Balrogs. Later he made them fewer and more powerful.
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Old 03-01-2005, 06:38 AM   #25
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1420!

In the first list, with the exclusion of Aragorn, Boromir, Eomer, and Gimli would be the best mortal contenders. As for the best on the list, I would have to say Wikkie.

If we are talking about mortals only, I wonder why the name Hurin hasn't been brought up yet. 70 trolls? single-handedly? Quite impressive.

There have been some great point and cases brought up on this thread, so far. I'd have to agree with Feanor, and say that Galadriel and Elrond's pull to the ring would be stronger than Gandalf's. For it was Galadriel and Elrond who desired to have armies flock to their banner to personally overthrow Sauron.

For "mental" combat, one could make a case for Galadriel and Elrond. They were able to conceal from Sauron their rings for a long, long, long time, and he was never able to get them. Also, it was Gandalf who turned to Galadriel and Elrond for advice. This might just be a wise move by Gandalf however, turning to some of the oldest, and wisest people left on Middle-earth, with plenty of experience, in the matter.
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Old 03-01-2005, 10:06 AM   #26
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Silmaril

Ah, mental struggle is officially open. What say you to Denathor? For years he resisted the desire to use the palantir, and even when he gave in (yes, sign of weakness... *sigh*) he was still able to use it without [mostly] going mad. He also used it well, being able to mentally battle against Sauron. And if you remember Pippen's words in Minas Tirith, Denathor and Gandalf had a long mental struggle. Gandalf came out on top, sure, but he's Istari for Eru's sake.

But on this, I must also disagree with my own statement, saying that Aragorn has it for mortal men of the 3rd Age. He was able to swipe control of the palantir from Sauron, bend it to his own will, after it had been generally corrupted for years and years, and then, here's the best part: he managed to scare the bejeezus out of Sauron with it. *grin*

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Old 03-01-2005, 02:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPotSS
And about Tuor killing Balrogs- the ones he killed were watered down versions of what most people think of when they see "Balrog" (they think of LOTR Durin's Bane). Back when Tolkien wrote that about Tuor there were bunches of Balrogs. Later he made them fewer and more powerful.
Please quote from source of said information.
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Old 03-01-2005, 02:37 PM   #28
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Boromir, Eomer, and Gimli
What? You're leaving out Faramir? From ROTK, The Steward and the King-
Quote:
...and yet knew, for she was bred among men of war, that here was one whom no Rider of the Mark would outmatch in battle.
I would pick Faramir over Eomer and Gimli.

Boro88 has nominated Hurin for best man warrior. He may be right, but I would choose his son, Turin, over him.

And Fea is right to mention Denethor. He is worthy of some recognition. From LOTR, Appendix A-
Quote:
Denethor II was a proud man, tall, valiant, and more kingly than any man that had appeared in Gondor for many lives of men; and he was wise also, and far-sighted, and learned in lore. Indeed he was as like to Thorongil (Aragorn) as to one of nearest kin...
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Old 03-01-2005, 03:38 PM   #29
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1420!

A nice quote phantom, and that might put Faramir over Eomer, but I still stick with Gimli being the better of them. I mean killing 42 orcs at Helm's Deep isn't a number to shrug off, also, it was worthy for the recognition of Gamling, Eomer, and Aragorn himself.

Quote:
When all were safe within, Eomer turned: "I thankyou, Gimli son of Gloin!" he said. "I did not know that you were with us in the sortie. but oft the unbidden guest proves the best company."
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We must stop this rat-hole," said Gamling. "Dwarves are said to be cunning folk with stone. Lend us your aid, master!"
Quote:
"If he wins back to the caves, he will pass your count again," laughed Aragorn. "Never did I see an axe so wielded."
To me this puts him above Faramir, and right next to Boromir. (according to the time we are dealing with).
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Old 03-01-2005, 06:30 PM   #30
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In my opinion......

Best Fighters(Offensive)(3rd age)

1.Aragorn
2.Faramir
3.Boromir

Best Fighters(Defense)(3rd age)

1.Aragorn
2.Gimli
3.Legolas

Best "mental combat"(3rd age)

1.Galadriel
2.Gandalf
3.Elrond/Denethor

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Old 03-01-2005, 09:24 PM   #31
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Faramir or Boromir are the same in my mind, and I would not put Gimli above them. Gimli may have slain 42 in an all night battle, but Boromir slew at least 20 in about two minutes when he was ALONE defending Merry and Pippin.

And Faramir, must you insist on keeping Galadriel above a powerful angelic being (Gandalf)? I wouldn't even put Elrond (who's part angel) above Gandalf. I would put Gandalf above all third age individuals (except Sauron).
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Old 03-01-2005, 09:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
And about Tuor killing Balrogs- the ones he killed were watered down versions of what most people think of when they see "Balrog" (they think of LOTR Durin's Bane). Back when Tolkien wrote that about Tuor there were bunches of Balrogs. Later he made them fewer and more powerful.
Quote:
Please quote from source of said information.
Well, I'm not at home with my books right now, and even if I was it might take me an eternity to find. All I know is that in his earlier drafts of stories, there were "armies" and "hosts" of balrogs, and that they were slain by all sorts of elves. In later stories, the balrogs appear to be much more powerful. For instance, the balrog that Gandalf fought.

I know for sure that, someplace in one of his drafts, Tolkien wrote a note that there were, at the most, seven balrogs. This is an obvious change from his earlier stories, like his early version of the Fall of Gondolin (the one where Tuor kills multiple balrogs).
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Old 03-02-2005, 12:57 AM   #33
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I would like to add someone to the initial list and that is Prince Imrahil, a personal favourite of mine. If I may quote from Battle of the Pelennor Fields:

Quote:
"Aragorn and Eomer and Imrahil rode back towards the Gate of the City,
and they were now weary beyond joy or sorrow. These three were unscathed
, for such was their fortune and the skill and might of their arms, and few
indeed had dared to abide them or look on their faces in the hour of their
wrath."
These three get my vote.

As for all mortals, Hurin is my pick:

Quote:
"So ended the mightest of the warriors of mortal men"
-Of the Ruin of Doriath.
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Old 03-02-2005, 09:56 AM   #34
Feanor of the Peredhil
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Silmaril

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And Faramir, must you insist on keeping Galadriel above a powerful angelic being (Gandalf)? I wouldn't even put Elrond (who's part angel) above Gandalf. I would put Gandalf above all third age individuals (except Sauron).
Yeah, but tp, that's exactly why Gandalf shouldn't be on the list at all. He's an angelic being, which gives him an unfair advantage. Although there is no doubting that he can certainly whack a stick, and yes, I'll admit it, in the books he claims that not Aragorn, nor Gimli, nor even Legolas could hurt him physically once he is reincarnated. And like you said with Elrond, he's part (although a small part) Maia, and so really, he shouldn't get to be on the list either. Galadriel is pure Elf.

Although on second thought... should Ringbearers be considerable? They, like I just said about Gandalf, have an unfair advantage. Sure they are all powerful in and of themselves, but the rings give that extra pinash. Would they be as powerful without them? Nope.

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Old 03-03-2005, 02:50 PM   #35
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I give it a tie between Gothmog-Gandalf-Witch King. Gothmog was probably the best fighter. Gandalf had great powers, but was able only to defeat an unamed Balrog and he himself perished for a time. The witch king probably also benefited from combat training while he was living, but later from the powers he recieved from Sauron. I vote for the Balrog captain, Gothmog, who in his early conception was the son of Melko.
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Old 03-04-2005, 07:54 AM   #36
Faramir
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Rate the Characters Fighting Skills:


1.Faramir-8.5/10
2.Elrond-9/10
3.Gimli-8/10
4.Eomer-7.5/10
5.Gamling-6/10
6.Pippin-4/10
7.Legolas-8.5/10
8.Hama-6.5/10
9.Eowyn-7/10
10.Sam-5.5/10
11.Boromir-9.5/10
13.Haldir-7/10
14.Merry-4/10
15.Gandlaf-10/10
16.Witchking-10/10
17.Gothmog-7/10
18.Madril-5/10
19.Theoden-8/10
20.Frodo-3.5/10
21.Imrahil-7/10
22.Aragorn-10/10
23.Glorfindel-8.5/10
24.Elladan-7.5/10
25.Elrohir-7.5/10
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Old 03-04-2005, 11:57 AM   #37
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Okay- I'll try to rate some of the people you have listed, plus I'll add some of my own.

Faramir- 9.0
Elrond- 9.3
Gimli- 8.4
Eomer- 8.7
Legolas- 8.4
Boromir- 9.1
Witchking- 9.2
Theoden- 8.4
Imrahil- 8.7
Aragorn- 9.2
Glorfindel- 9.4
Elladan- 9.0
Elrohir- 9.0

additions...
Turin- 9.8
Hurin- 9.6
Feanor- 9.7
Fingolfin- 9.6
Maehdros- 9.6
Ecthelion- 9.4
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Old 03-04-2005, 12:31 PM   #38
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Even Legolas is my favorite character, i would have to say that Gandalf and the Witch King are about tied for 1st place. The question should be what is your favorite character in each category, because it is a given that Gandalf and the Witchking are going to be better fighters than mere mortal men. For those fighters who are not demigods I believe Aragorn is the best.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:55 PM   #39
Estelyn Telcontar
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A bit of advice for those who have made lists - please tell us why you make your choices. Unfortunately, a list of names is not very interesting for others to read...
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Old 03-04-2005, 07:23 PM   #40
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sorry i didnt have much time, ill put more effort in next time.
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