Flotsam and Jetsam - a worried question - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalaith · 11-23-2003, 10:52 AM

Now I haven't seen TTT - EE yet, I have to wait for my birthday present (precious). But I'm worrying about how and if this chapter of the book TT will be included, either in RotK or in the extended version of TTT, and I was hoping some of you good people could help. The scene of reunion with Merry and Pippin at Isengard was one of my favourite and most treasured moments in the novel - I loved the delighted and outraged reactions of elf and dwarf, the insouciance of the hobbits, and the delightful interchange with Theoden. Merry's words "so that was the King of Rohan? A fine old fellow, very polite," herald the awakening of the affection and devotion that leads the hobbit to risk his life on the fields of Pelennor. Of course, PJ's Theoden is not "a fine old fellow, very polite", he is a bitter, twisted piece of goods (one of the changes I most resented and disliked in the movie) so that particular quote is out of the window I suppose. But what about the rest of it? What is going to happen, do you all think? Is there any hint in the Extended Edition? Please don't worry about spoiling me, I don't mind!

Finwe · 11-23-2003, 11:28 AM

Since you said that you don't mind spoilers, this is what happened in the Flotsam and Jetsam chapter of the EE. The camera goes back to Merry and Pippin walking around in waist-deep water, and they both shoot off a couple of great wisecracks. (Pippin says: Oh yes, it's a quality establishment. I hear the staff are very good. (Referring to Isengard)) Pippin then says that he's starving, and randomly finds a floating apple in the water. He looks up at the sky for a while (an allusion to the apple-throwing scene in FotR with Aragorn and Pippin) and then both Hobbits realize that there is food floating in the water. They go back to the source, and find Saruman's storeroom. They find two barrels of Longbottom Leaf, and start smoking. Unfortunately, there is no Theoden involved.

Carlas · 11-23-2003, 02:32 PM

It's a great part in the movie, even if it is a little strange! I was waiting for it since the fellowship, and I can't watch it without bursting out into hysterical laughter! Hope when you see it you like it just as much!

Elennar Starfire · 11-23-2003, 04:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> They find two barrels of Longbottom Leaf, and start smoking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is always smoke rising from Isengard! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I can't watch it without bursting out into hysterical laughter! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I might have been able to if my friend's mom hadn't said what I wrote above! (In a Treebeard voice!) I shall laugh every time I see it now! The scene is funny enough anyway, but that was priceless!

balrogman · 11-23-2003, 09:36 PM

i think its rad when merry pulls out his pipe, he does it with style, also its hilarious when they are making fun of saruman

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 11-24-2003, 06:01 AM

Quote:

There is always smoke rising from Isengard!

I haven't seen EE yet. Though I agree with Lalaith about that Theoden thing I'm sure the scene is awesome.

**The Saucepan Man** · 11-24-2003, 08:41 AM

The additional Merry and Pippin scenes at Isengard in the TTT EE were nice. But the point is that the TTT EE did not have Theoden, Aragorn and co arriving at Isengard. So, are we to assume that there will be such a scene in RotK?Clearly the scene would be there if the confrontation with Saruman was to be included. But, since Saruman and Wormtongue have (most unfortunately) been expunged from the theatrical release, I do wonder what the point would be of having Gandalf and co turn up at Isengard and not confront him. But if they do not go to Isengard, how will they be reunited with Merry and Pippin? And how will the Palantir come into their possession? Surely they won't simply have Pippin find it amongst the debris and give it to Gandalf later. That would be weak in the extreme (if nothing else, it turns an act of folly by Pippin into a very helpful one).It looks more and more to me like Saruman's omission from the final film is going to cause more problems than it solves. But I suppose that we will soon know for sure ...

Essex · 11-24-2003, 11:20 AM

Yes, and this is where spoilers can sometimes come in handy. I know there will be no saruman nor scouring in the film. I am ready for this. I need to know how they are going to rectify finding the palantir, so I can be ready for any changes. I remember how dissapointed I was on first viewing of TT because I stayed away from ANY news of TT for weeks before. This is why I'm not doing that on this occasion......

peonydeepdelver · 11-24-2003, 12:49 PM

Hopefully this won't turn into another thread about Saruman being cut from ROTK. But they'll definitely have Aragorn and them come to Isengard at some point. Otherwise there's no way Pippin can get to Minas Tirith, and the story is just screwed up.

Lalaith · 11-24-2003, 03:37 PM

Thanks to those who filled me in on the EE...it makes me feel more hopeful about some kind of reunion scene at Isengard in RotK. A But as Saucepan Man points out, once they have started messing about with the plot, it has a knock-on effect on a whole lot of other things. And, even worse, when they change people's characters, it also has a serious knock-on effect on the motivation of others. I just can't see how Merry would get so fond of the Theoden that PJ has created, so what exactly will drive him to the Fields of Pelennor?

**The Saucepan Man** · 11-24-2003, 07:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Hopefully this won't turn into another thread about Saruman being cut from ROTK. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed that this should not turn into another list of complaints about him being cut. But Saruman's absence does seem to me to be inextricably linked to the question that Lalith has raised. If they do not confront Saruman, what's the point in them going to Isengard? If they don't go to Isengard, how will the Palantir come into the story? And if they only go there to pick up Merry and Pippin, and just happen to find the Palantir while there, isn't this even more likely to prompt audiences to wonder what happened to Saruman?I am sure that Jackson will find some way to get round this. The question for me is whether it will "work". And remeber, it must be done in a way which allows them to add back in the confrontation with Saruman in the Extended Edition.

Lindir · 12-05-2003, 07:29 PM

I don't get that scene, though. Especially when Pippin taps on his nose or something and says "Oh, I get it, don't be hasty." Is he like making fun at Treebeard or something?

The Only Real Estel · 12-06-2003, 01:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I don't get that scene, though. Especially when Pippin taps on his nose or something and says "Oh, I get it, don't be hasty." Is he like making fun at Treebeard or something?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It almost seemed to make fun of Treebeard. Especially Merry's attempt at Tb's rumblings. The scene wasn't to bad, but some of the parts weren't done that well.

11-23-2003, 10:52 AM	#1
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Flotsam and Jetsam - a worried question Now I haven't seen TTT - EE yet, I have to wait for my birthday present (precious). <BR>But I'm worrying about how and if this chapter of the book TT will be included, either in RotK or in the extended version of TTT, and I was hoping some of you good people could help.<BR>The scene of reunion with Merry and Pippin at Isengard was one of my favourite and most treasured moments in the novel - I loved the delighted and outraged reactions of elf and dwarf, the insouciance of the hobbits, and the delightful interchange with Theoden. Merry's words "so that was the King of Rohan? A fine old fellow, very polite," herald the awakening of the affection and devotion that leads the hobbit to risk his life on the fields of Pelennor. <BR>Of course, PJ's Theoden is not "a fine old fellow, very polite", he is a bitter, twisted piece of goods (one of the changes I most resented and disliked in the movie) so that particular quote is out of the window I suppose. But what about the rest of it? What is going to happen, do you all think? Is there any hint in the Extended Edition? Please don't worry about spoiling me, I don't mind! __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

11-23-2003, 11:28 AM	#2
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Since you said that you don't mind spoilers, this is what happened in the Flotsam and Jetsam chapter of the EE. The camera goes back to Merry and Pippin walking around in waist-deep water, and they both shoot off a couple of great wisecracks. (Pippin says: Oh yes, it's a quality establishment. I hear the staff are very good. (Referring to Isengard)) Pippin then says that he's starving, and randomly finds a floating apple in the water. He looks up at the sky for a while (an allusion to the apple-throwing scene in FotR with Aragorn and Pippin) and then both Hobbits realize that there is food floating in the water. They go back to the source, and find Saruman's storeroom. They find two barrels of Longbottom Leaf, and start smoking. Unfortunately, there is no Theoden involved. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

11-23-2003, 02:32 PM	#3
Carlas Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lost in the Fog of the Downs Posts: 359	It's a great part in the movie, even if it is a little strange! I was waiting for it since the fellowship, and I can't watch it without bursting out into hysterical laughter! Hope when you see it you like it just as much! __________________ 七転八起...

11-23-2003, 04:18 PM	#4
Elennar Starfire Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nowhere...now here Posts: 952	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> They find two barrels of Longbottom Leaf, and start smoking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There is always smoke rising from Isengard!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I can't watch it without bursting out into hysterical laughter! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I might have been able to if my friend's mom hadn't said what I wrote above! (In a Treebeard voice!) I shall laugh every time I see it now! The scene is funny enough anyway, but that was priceless! __________________ Don't let me die!

11-23-2003, 09:36 PM	#5
balrogman Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: that place with the stuff Posts: 102	i think its rad when merry pulls out his pipe, he does it with style, also its hilarious when they are making fun of saruman __________________ should i stay or should i go?

11-24-2003, 08:41 AM	#7
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	The additional Merry and Pippin scenes at Isengard in the TTT EE were nice. But the point is that the TTT EE did not have Theoden, Aragorn and co arriving at Isengard. So, are we to assume that there will be such a scene in RotK?<P>Clearly the scene would be there if the confrontation with Saruman was to be included. But, since Saruman and Wormtongue have (most unfortunately) been expunged from the theatrical release, I do wonder what the point would be of having Gandalf and co turn up at Isengard and not confront him. But if they do not go to Isengard, how will they be reunited with Merry and Pippin? And how will the Palantir come into their possession? Surely they won't simply have Pippin find it amongst the debris and give it to Gandalf later. That would be weak in the extreme (if nothing else, it turns an act of folly by Pippin into a very helpful one).<P>It looks more and more to me like Saruman's omission from the final film is going to cause more problems than it solves. But I suppose that we will soon know for sure ... __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

11-24-2003, 11:20 AM	#8
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Yes, and this is where spoilers can sometimes come in handy. I know there will be no saruman nor scouring in the film. I am ready for this. I need to know how they are going to rectify finding the palantir, so I can be ready for any changes. I remember how dissapointed I was on first viewing of TT because I stayed away from ANY news of TT for weeks before. This is why I'm not doing that on this occasion......

11-24-2003, 12:49 PM	#9
peonydeepdelver Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alas, I hail from Massachusetts Posts: 256	Hopefully this won't turn into another thread about Saruman being cut from ROTK. <P>But they'll definitely have Aragorn and them come to Isengard at some point. Otherwise there's no way Pippin can get to Minas Tirith, and the story is just screwed up. __________________ "Nazgul, Nazgul! You speak of what is deep beyond the reach of your muddy dreams, Ugluk! Nazgul! Ah! All that they make out! One day you'll wish that you had not said that. Ape! You ought to know that they're the apple of the Great Eye." ~Grishnakh

11-24-2003, 03:37 PM	#10
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Thanks to those who filled me in on the EE...it makes me feel more hopeful about some kind of reunion scene at Isengard in RotK. <BR>A<BR>But as Saucepan Man points out, once they have started messing about with the plot, it has a knock-on effect on a whole lot of other things. <BR>And, even worse, when they change people's characters, it also has a serious knock-on effect on the motivation of others. I just can't see how Merry would get so fond of the Theoden that PJ has created, so what exactly will drive him to the Fields of Pelennor? __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

11-24-2003, 07:50 PM	#11
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Hopefully this won't turn into another thread about Saruman being cut from ROTK. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Agreed that this should not turn into another list of complaints about him being cut. But Saruman's absence does seem to me to be inextricably linked to the question that Lalith has raised. If they do not confront Saruman, what's the point in them going to Isengard? If they don't go to Isengard, how will the Palantir come into the story? And if they only go there to pick up Merry and Pippin, and just happen to find the Palantir while there, isn't this even more likely to prompt audiences to wonder what happened to Saruman?<P>I am sure that Jackson will find some way to get round this. The question for me is whether it will "work". And remeber, it must be done in a way which allows them to add back in the confrontation with Saruman in the Extended Edition. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

12-05-2003, 07:29 PM	#12
Lindir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Void Posts: 98	I don't get that scene, though. Especially when Pippin taps on his nose or something and says "Oh, I get it, don't be hasty." Is he like making fun at Treebeard or something? __________________ Come not between the Nazgul and his prey!Or he will not slay thee in thy turn.He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye.

12-06-2003, 01:50 PM	#13
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I don't get that scene, though. Especially when Pippin taps on his nose or something and says "Oh, I get it, don't be hasty." Is he like making fun at Treebeard or something?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It almost seemed to make fun of Treebeard. Especially Merry's attempt at Tb's rumblings. The scene wasn't to bad, but some of the parts weren't done that well.