A Touching Thought... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

VanimaEdhel · 12-29-2002, 06:10 PM

I seem to remember someone saying that in "The Red Book of Westmarch" it is mentioned somewhere that Legolas left Rivendell in love with Arwen and mourning that he could not have her.Well, I remembered that after the first time I saw "The Two Towers" and it actually puts a new spin on Legolas's return of the Evenstar to Aragorn. It is kind of like, when he is giving it back, he is accepting Aragorn as Arwen's lover and accepting that he had to move on. There was something in Orlando Bloom's eyes in that scene that actually, in my eyes, portrayed that, even though they didn't openly state, "Ai, dan im aníron Undomiel!" (Translated, means, Ah, but I desire Evenstar).Did anyone else know about this beforehand? Because it really gave the scene a whole new, touching meaning to me. Or am I just completely reading into this too much?

the mortal elf · 12-29-2002, 06:34 PM

*looks skeptical* I'm no Tolkien expert, but I'm sure I've never heard anything like that about the red book. Are you sure it wasn't in a fanfic? Because actually to me, it's not a nice thought. I mean, if it had actually happened, it would've been sweet of Legolas, but we all no there was never any question about who Arwen loved

Durelin · 12-29-2002, 06:42 PM

Never heard about that either. Ugh, Legolas and Arwen? I don't know about that! I think it was just a look of care for Aragorn (don't think gay!) I mean he was a good friend of Aragorns and I thought it looked more like a look of understanding and support to Aragorn because at this point Aragorn believes Arwen has left ME and that is the gift given to him by her, like the memory of their love, it should be emotional like to give that back to Aragorn and for Aragorn to receive it back.

doug*platypus · 12-30-2002, 01:04 AM

Whaaaat the?!Maybe Orlando's fanclub got a copy of the Red Book. I'd have to say, don't believe everything that "someone" tells you. I think the OrlyClub has got to them. The fiends! They will stop at nothing!

12-30-2002, 10:59 AM

I noticed it, but at the time didn't know anything about Legolas and Arwen. It was a very touching scene and makes a little more sense now. I assumed that they'd cut something out cause it felt like I was missing something.

VanimaEdhel · 12-30-2002, 06:11 PM

No, I remember that I learned it back when we had "The Books 1" and "The Books 2". It was in "The Books 2" I remember...Lossen: you remember it too? Then I'm not completely daft? Good, at least I'm not losing my sanity...

The Silver-shod Muse · 12-31-2002, 04:17 PM

Do you have a quote? I would like to see if Legolas really was interested in Arwen. After all, Elrond would probably have been more willing to give up Arwen to an elf prince than to a human king.[ December 31, 2002: Message edited by: The Silver-shod Muse ]

VanimaEdhel · 12-31-2002, 04:21 PM

No, like I said, I just remembered it kind of freaking me out when I read it, so that's the only reason I remember it...probably was cleaned out in that big Forum clean-up they had too...I wish I had printed that out now...

01-01-2003, 12:53 PM

I remember reading something about it. Just can't remember where. But it does explain the atmosphere in that scene. Did you see their faces, there was some emotion in there that wasn't explained in the film, they just looked really sad, or defeated. Anyway Vanima, thanks for the reminder, it was confusing me.

05-07-2003, 01:16 PM

I thought of another way that scene could be interperated. Eowyn says to Aragorn something like 'what lady gave you that jewel?' and then Aragorn has all his Arwen flashbacks and doesn't answer. When Legolas is giving Aragorn the Evenstar Eowyn looks like she thinks that Legolas is the 'fair maiden' who gave him the jewel. Thinking of it in that way makes me crack up.

Meela · 05-07-2003, 02:24 PM

Oh, that's absolutely beautiful... I can see that, although it never crossed my mind before.

Tinuviel87 · 05-07-2003, 03:15 PM

I'm confused by this thread...i'ts an interesting concept, and it makes sense in terms of the movie, but not really the books. Is it maybe just a rumor started by someone who saw the movie and has some vague knowledge of the books? I'd like to see direct evidence, because otherwise it just sounds kind of like an Orlifan idea however, if it is true, then we clearly underestimated Tolkien inner romantic... ~Lomiel

babsies · 05-07-2003, 05:54 PM

quoting here "When Legolas is giving Aragorn the Evenstar Eowyn looks like she thinks that Legolas is the 'fair maiden' who gave him the jewel."i can understand if eowyn thought that way. i mean legolas does have long hair. and the whole looks that were exchanged

mollecon · 05-09-2003, 12:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Legolas left Rivendell in love with Arwen and mourning that he could not have her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Huh? I'm not familiar with ALL of Tolkiens writing, but I doubt this very much! It's certainly not mentioned in LotR books (including appendices) anywhere. Sounds like a rumour to me.

Everdawn · 05-10-2003, 02:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It is kind of like, when he is giving it back, he is accepting Aragorn as Arwen's lover and accepting that he had to move on. There was something in Orlando Bloom's eyes in that scene that actually, in my eyes, portrayed that, even though they didn't openly state, "Ai, dan im aníron Undomiel!" (Translated, means, Ah, but I desire Evenstar). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I totally agree, and watching parts of scenes on the extended DVD, there is a part (not in the movie but in the doco.) Where they are leaving Rivendell and Legolas comes to Arwen and touches her cheek and leaves... It would make more sense.. *thinking* Poor Legolas, never told anyone how he feels!

eleanor_niphredil · 05-10-2003, 10:24 AM

Funny you should mention this. i had funny ideas about this when I first read the books. however, I was only ten at the time, so I assumed later on that I had misread something. But i always thought that legolas had feelings for Arwen. Cant think what gave me that idea, though.

Scott · 05-10-2003, 07:01 PM

I've always thought that Legolas got the shaft when Tolkien was doling out romances-Gimli too. I can see where this would fit, but I too am not so sure I can believe it until I see hard evidence. But if it were true, I can now rest see why Legolas would pick Gimli as his hetero life mate (alludes to the wonderful world of View Askew and Kevin Smith ). Who could ever move on from Arwen?

Rose Cotton · 05-11-2003, 05:04 PM

Someone is going to have to read the books again and see if they find anything on it. I'll skim my copies a bit. If I find anything I'll post a page number.

12-29-2002, 06:10 PM	#1
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,473	A Touching Thought... I seem to remember someone saying that in "The Red Book of Westmarch" it is mentioned somewhere that Legolas left Rivendell in love with Arwen and mourning that he could not have her.<P>Well, I remembered that after the first time I saw "The Two Towers" and it actually puts a new spin on Legolas's return of the Evenstar to Aragorn. It is kind of like, when he is giving it back, he is accepting Aragorn as Arwen's lover and accepting that he had to move on. There was something in Orlando Bloom's eyes in that scene that actually, in my eyes, portrayed that, even though they didn't openly state, "<I>Ai, dan <B>im</B> aníron Undomiel!</I>" (Translated, means, <I>Ah, but <B>I</B> desire Evenstar</I>).<P>Did anyone else know about this beforehand? Because it really gave the scene a whole new, touching meaning to me. Or am I just completely reading into this too much? __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

12-29-2002, 06:34 PM	#2
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	looks skeptical I'm no Tolkien expert, but I'm sure I've never heard anything like that about the red book. Are you sure it wasn't in a fanfic? Because actually to me, it's not a nice thought. I mean, if it had actually happened, it would've been sweet of Legolas, but we all no there was never any question about who Arwen loved __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.

12-30-2002, 01:04 AM	#4
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 963	Whaaaat the?!<P>Maybe Orlando's fanclub got a copy of the Red Book. <P>I'd have to say, don't believe everything that "someone" tells you. I think the OrlyClub has got to them. The fiends! They will stop at nothing! __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-30-2002, 10:59 AM	#5
lossentilien Guest Posts: n/a	I noticed it, but at the time didn't know anything about Legolas and Arwen. <BR>It was a very touching scene and makes a little more sense now. I assumed that they'd cut something out cause it felt like I was missing something.

12-30-2002, 06:11 PM	#6
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,473	No, I remember that I learned it back when we had "The Books 1" and "The Books 2". It was in "The Books 2" I remember...Lossen: you remember it too? Then I'm not completely daft? Good, at least I'm not losing my sanity... __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

12-29-2002, 06:42 PM	#3
Durelin Estelo dagnir, Melo ring Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,121	Never heard about that either. Ugh, Legolas and Arwen? I don't know about that! I think it was just a look of care for Aragorn (don't think gay!) I mean he was a good friend of Aragorns and I thought it looked more like a look of understanding and support to Aragorn because at this point Aragorn believes Arwen has left ME and that is the gift given to him by her, like the memory of their love, it should be emotional like to give that back to Aragorn and for Aragorn to receive it back.

12-31-2002, 04:17 PM	#7
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Do you have a quote? I would like to see if Legolas really was interested in Arwen. After all, Elrond would probably have been more willing to give up Arwen to an elf prince than to a human king.<p>[ December 31, 2002: Message edited by: The Silver-shod Muse ] __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

12-31-2002, 04:21 PM	#8
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,473	No, like I said, I just remembered it kind of freaking me out when I read it, so that's the only reason I remember it...probably was cleaned out in that big Forum clean-up they had too...I wish I had printed that out now... __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

01-01-2003, 12:53 PM	#9
lossentilien Guest Posts: n/a	I remember reading something about it. Just can't remember where. But it does explain the atmosphere in that scene. Did you see their faces, there was some emotion in there that wasn't explained in the film, they just looked really sad, or defeated.<BR>Anyway Vanima, thanks for the reminder, it was confusing me.

05-07-2003, 01:16 PM	#10
daisy brambleburr Guest Posts: n/a	I thought of another way that scene could be interperated.<BR>Eowyn says to Aragorn something like 'what lady gave you that jewel?' and then Aragorn has all his Arwen flashbacks and doesn't answer. When Legolas is giving Aragorn the Evenstar Eowyn looks like she thinks that Legolas is the 'fair maiden' who gave him the jewel. Thinking of it in that way makes me crack up.

05-07-2003, 02:24 PM	#11
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,118	Oh, that's absolutely beautiful... I can see that, although it never crossed my mind before. __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

05-07-2003, 03:15 PM	#12
Tinuviel87 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Heelllloooo Monkey...... Posts: 65	I'm confused by this thread...i'ts an interesting concept, and it makes sense in terms of the movie, but not really the books. Is it maybe just a rumor started by someone who saw the movie and has some vague knowledge of the books? I'd like to see direct evidence, because otherwise it just sounds kind of like an Orlifan idea however, if it is true, then we clearly underestimated Tolkien inner romantic... <P>~Lomiel __________________ Don't Rate Me!(Reverse Psychology?) "And the song of Luthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed..."

05-07-2003, 05:54 PM	#13
babsies Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2003 Location: the land of oz Posts: 12	quoting here<BR>"When Legolas is giving Aragorn the Evenstar Eowyn looks like she thinks that Legolas is the 'fair maiden' who gave him the jewel."<P>i can understand if eowyn thought that way. i mean legolas does have long hair. and the whole looks that were exchanged __________________ hey! I'm depraved on acount I'm deprived!- Action from West Side Story

05-09-2003, 12:03 PM	#14
mollecon Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 188	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Legolas left Rivendell in love with Arwen and mourning that he could not have her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Huh? I'm not familiar with ALL of Tolkiens writing, but I doubt this very much! It's certainly not mentioned in LotR books (including appendices) anywhere. Sounds like a rumour to me.

05-10-2003, 02:00 AM	#15
Everdawn Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the sand dunes outside of Ilium, watching it burn. Posts: 1,291	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It is kind of like, when he is giving it back, he is accepting Aragorn as Arwen's lover and accepting that he had to move on. There was something in Orlando Bloom's eyes in that scene that actually, in my eyes, portrayed that, even though they didn't openly state, "Ai, dan im aníron Undomiel!" (Translated, means, Ah, but I desire Evenstar).<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I totally agree, and watching parts of scenes on the extended DVD, there is a part (not in the movie but in the doco.) Where they are leaving Rivendell and Legolas comes to Arwen and touches her cheek and leaves...<BR>It would make more sense.. <BR>thinking Poor Legolas, never told anyone how he feels! __________________ "Athena, stepping up behind him, visible to no one but Achillies, gripped his red-gold hair. Startled he made a half turn, and he knew her upon the instant for Athena." ~The Iliad~ ~My lord, Éomer~

05-10-2003, 10:24 AM	#16
eleanor_niphredil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: england Posts: 812	Funny you should mention this. i had funny ideas about this when I first read the books. however, I was only ten at the time, so I assumed later on that I had misread something. But i always thought that legolas had feelings for Arwen. Cant think what gave me that idea, though. __________________ Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to spend my time on this forum. And by the way, for any of you turning into a penguin, stop it. ~* I am Pippin took in the Female Fellowship*~

05-10-2003, 07:01 PM	#17
Scott Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ohio/Grey Havens Posts: 183	I've always thought that Legolas got the shaft when Tolkien was doling out romances-Gimli too. I can see where this would fit, but I too am not so sure I can believe it until I see hard evidence. But if it were true, I can now rest see why Legolas would pick Gimli as his hetero life mate (alludes to the wonderful world of View Askew and Kevin Smith ). Who could ever move on from Arwen? __________________ Those who the Gods would destroy, They first make mad. ~Those Crazy Greeks

05-11-2003, 05:04 PM	#18
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Someone is going to have to read the books again and see if they find anything on it. I'll skim my copies a bit. If I find anything I'll post a page number. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)