How many Rangers of the North were there ?

[shadowfax]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Ah, Morth, the Toes of a King are the Toes of a Healer

On the one hand you'd imagine many hundreds or a few thousand or so Dunedain, as only a small proportion would be Rangers (say 10%??). The majority must have been farmers, hunters, gatherers etc to feed the population.

That is assuming that there was a formal deifinition for being a ranger as such. The rangers must have lived off something (Aragaorn did have coins) and I don't think it was all charity. I imagine that many of them worked their land or followed their trade much of the time but would go out into the wild as a ranger when called upon.

So on that basis, any male Dundeain who was old enough and able enough to be of any use in ranger activities was a ranger.

The idea of a professional full time army didn't really arise until the Renaissance period.

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

Originally Posted by shadowfax

That is assuming that there was a formal deifinition for being a ranger as such. The rangers must have lived off something (Aragaorn did have coins) and I don't think it was all charity. I imagine that many of them worked their land or followed their trade much of the time but would go out into the wild as a ranger when called upon.

So on that basis, any male Dundeain who was old enough and able enough to be of any use in ranger activities was a ranger.

The idea of a professional full time army didn't really arise until the Renaissance period.

*cough* The Romans had a professional full-time army.

Gondor most certainly had a professional full-time army and what's more there is a specific reference in the book to the "Rangers of Ithilien" who are clearly soldiers. Aragorn is definitely a full-time Ranger and although no doubt any able bodied Dunedain male could have taken up arms and helped out in a pinch I'd imagine that most of the Rangers were "full time". These guys were guarding places like the Shire - this couldn't really be considered a casual job.

As to how many Rangers there were in Eriador ... it's unlikely that there could have only been 30 (or 31 if you add Aragorn). Presumably there were other Rangers who were still guarding the women and the children of Aragorn's kinfolk in the North. We know that the watch over the Shire and Bree was affected due to the absence of Rangers, but it's unlikely that the Rangers' settlements would have been left unguarded. There would have been little point in overseeing a victory over Sauron and then returning home to find all the women and children had been carried off and/or slaughtered by orcs (or other dark forces).

Just at a guess I'd imagine that there were probably a minimum of 100 full-time Rangers and at least an equal number of other men. Then there must have been around 200 women, plus 100 children under the age of 18. So that's 500 already. That's not a huge number - there were probably more than 500 people living in Bree, and there must have been thousands of Hobbits living in the Shire. Halbarad's apology for only bringing 30 Rangers certainly implies that there were a lot more than just 30. Presumably that was just the number that could rounded up within a day's ride or so, and Eriador is a big place.

On the hand if there'd been 1000 Rangers then there would have been less of a problem sending a reasonable detachment off to Aragorn and still maintaining a watch over Eriador, so there can't have been that many.

[shadowfax]

Point taken for the Romans. Maybe also Gondor, being a properly organised state, modelled maybe on the Roman empire, would have had a properly enrolled and salaried army. But most other countries and states of Middle-earth probably lacked that level of sophistication.

Also, I do accept that Aragorn probably didn't have any job besides being a Ranger. He was in the fortunate position of being in Elrond's favour and would have received support from Rivendell.

Maybe some other rangers besides himself also enjoyed that priviledge, but there would have been a limit to how many of them (and their families) Elrond's purse, generosity and goodwill could have supported.

The fact that the rangers were keeping watch does not mean they were on sentry duties. It could also mean that they were keeping a watchful eye while going about other things. They may have lived in scattered homesteads and would have been aware of anything that moved in their vicinity and would have taken action as required.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

*cough* The Romans had a professional full-time army.

The idea of a full-time standing army has been around since Sumer. But the interesting thing is that soldiers were always paid by their country, whereas I can't imagine that the Rangers would have been paid, as they would be the ones who would have done the paying.

I'm sure whenever they got to a Dunedan settlement they would be given free food and a place to stay, but judging by the way Butterbur talks of them I can't imagine that anyone in Bree, or anywhere else, would do so. Which means they must have either been self-sufficient (which suggests that there were a larger number), or that they traded with other nearby peoples. But what would they be trading? I can't think of anything they'd have that anyone else would want, especially with their reputation- I'm sure if people traded with them they would have a better reputation and be more well-known. But how else would they have got resources such as metal?

[Rumil]

Hi All,

another point to throw into the mix is that the Dunedain stronghold in the Third Age was in the 'Angle', South of Rivendell, this was noted by Michael Martinez when going through the Marquette papers. So there was a Ranger 'HQ' if you like where presumably the non-combatant Dunedain lived.

Since the leaders of the Rangers were Chieftains rather than Kings, I'm more tempted to think of them as organised similarly to some Dark Age societies. A chieftain/local king/prince/whatever, would have a bodyguard of 'full time' warriors. These were variously called Hearthtroops, Huscarls, Loafeaters, or Bucellarii in Byzantium, showing that they ate their Lord's bread, ie were maintained by the power and fortune of their leader.

The bodyguard were available for military use at any time, but were only a small proportion of the available fighting men. The majority would be freemen, who were mostly farmers etc and turned out to fight only when something really serious was happening, eg Anglo-Saxon Fyrd.

Exactly how this might relate to the Dunedain is an open question!

Re Eonwe on Dunedain economics, well, JRRT wasn't exactly crystal clear on that sort of thing. In the system mentioned above, (pre-feudal I guess) the Lord and his bodyguard were supported by taxes or contribution from the general population, and often by loot acquired in campaigns against the neighbours. The Dunedain did have a 'special relationship' with Elrond & co. but that's another kettle of fish. I suppose they could trade with the Dwarves and Bree as well maybe? Just to speculate I guess it would be a great 'cover story' for a Ranger to act as a trader while patrolling and keeping the peace, and give the chance to make the odd silver penny too.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I can't think of anything they'd have that anyone else would want, especially with their reputation- I'm sure if people traded with them they would have a better reputation and be more well-known. But how else would they have got resources such as metal?

The Dúnedain of Arnor were able to save many of their posessions from the sack of Fornost by the Witch-king, such as weapons and heirlooms. I don't think it's out of the question for them to have hidden treasure and money also. At any rate, the Witch-king and his men were defeated and driven off permanently, so whatever they had gotten from looting the Dúnedain probably wouldn't have been that difficult to recover. Arnor at one time had been the great kingdom of the North, and they could have still had money left over from those days, enough to sustain a much diminished population.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I can't think of anything they'd have that anyone else would want, especially with their reputation- I'm sure if people traded with them they would have a better reputation and be more well-known. But how else would they have got resources such as metal?

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The Dúnedain of Arnor were able to save many of their posessions from the sack of Fornost by the Witch-king, such as weapons and heirlooms. I don't think it's out of the question for them to have hidden treasure and money also. At any rate, the Witch-king and his men were defeated and driven off permanently, so whatever they had gotten from looting the Dúnedain probably wouldn't have been that difficult to recover. Arnor at one time had been the great kingdom of the North, and they could have still had money left over from those days, enough to sustain a much diminished population.

The Dunedain had the aid of Elrond and Imladris. Besides heirlooms of Arnorion origin, it is more than likely the Dunedain were equipped by the friendly forges of Rivendell (in much the same way the Noldor reforged Narsil into Anduril, sheltered Dunedain chieftains, and went out on joint martial missions). Think about it, without the aid of Elrond over many centuries, the chieftains of the Dunedain would have faded into memory long before the War of the Ring.