Shadows of the Future

[Susan Delgado]

I was chatting earlier and Silme started a discussion on foreshadowing in LotR. She's not a forum wight, so I got her permission to bring it here for further discussion, since it was interesting but fizzled rather quickly there.

We came up with a few examples, the most obvious being when the Hobbits in the Green Dragon are talking about seeing trees walking in the Old Forest and later we find that there are, in fact, walking trees.

Not far from the road-meeting they came on the huge hulk of a tree: it was still alive and had leaves on the small branches that it had put out round the broken stumps of its long-fallen limbs; but it was hollow, and could be entered through a great crack on the side away from the road. The hobbits crept inside, and sat there upon a floor of old leaves and decayed wood.

This tree could be a foreshadowing of either Old Man Willow or the Cracks of Doom.

When the Hobbits awake the morning following their meeting with Gildor Inglorian and company their meal from the night before seems to still be with them, though they've slept since they ate. We thought this could mean lembas.

At one point, someone (we thought it was Pippin, but weren't sure) comes "shrieking in" to the scene, which could be foreshadowing of the screams of the Nazgul.

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: Susan Delgado ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

What about Frodo's dreams as a clear foreshadowing of his departure to the Blessed lands, especially the one when he is at Tom Bombadil's house at the beginning of the quest?

That night they heard no noises. But either in his dreams or out of them, he could not tell which, Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind that seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain -curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise.

And another foreshadowing of the same that occurred in Rivendell after the Ring had been destroyed, when Sam was speaking with Frodo:

'Well, Mr. Frodo, we've been far and seen a deal, and yet I don't think we've found a better place than this [i.e. Rivendell]. There's something of everything here....'

'Yes, something of everything, Sam, except the Sea,' Frodo had answered; and he repeated it now to himself; 'Except the Sea.'

Also, the phial of Galadriel can be seen as a foreshadowing of what Frodo himself will become by the end of the book. You can see this possibility when Gandalf speculates earlier in Rivendell what might become of Frodo:

He is not half through yet, and to what end he will come not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can.

Other references to light occur throughout the book in relation to Frodo which reinforce this foreshadowing, specifically the descriptions of him having the light of an Elf-friend in his eyes.

sharon

[Arwen Imladris]

There are also the times when they say things like "Frodo never did see that place again" (talking about Lothlorien) and things like that. There is forshadowing all through the book. Also the "golumm still has a part to play before the end"

[the mortal elf]

They did the same thing with Aragorn in Lothlorien, saying that he stood there never again as a living man, or something to that point.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

Still, I wonder if we shall ever be put into songs or tales. We're in one, of course; but I mean: put into words, you know, told by the fireside, or read out of a great big book with red and black letters, years and years afterwards. And people will say': "Let's hear about Frodo and the Ring!"...

Well, it's kind of ironic that indeed Sam tells his children these tales. Also, we are reading of this tale in a great big book (I originally heard that Tolkien wanted it to be printed in red and black letters too!).
It's almost as if Tolkien was foreshadowing the success of his own book.
I guess Samwise got his wish!

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: Tigerlily Gamgee ]

[Birdland]

And let's not forget that most prophetic line: "Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom."

[doug*platypus]

I'm glad to see that there is a thread on foreshadowing. Tolkien used this device often (even ad nauseum you might say). After a few reads of LOTR it becomes so apparent, that I thought it wasn't worth bringing up! Of course it is though, especially since now it comes down to it I can't think of all the examples I have seen!

As well as Gollum's destiny, Éowyn's destiny is also referred to by Aragorn (or have I just been movieised?), and Sam refers to the part he feels he still has to play before the end (interestingly, it is almost like there is an outside force specifically telling him this).

Galadriel's Mirror should probably have been called the Foreshadower 2000! I don't know if clairvoyance is the same as foreshadowing, but Sam sees Frodo lying unconscious in Cirith Ungol, and also the woes of his Gaffer, although this may have been present or future. Frodo's vision of Gandalf making his way back down a long road, to Middle-Earth, may also be present or future.

The appearance of an Oliphaunt in Ithilien foreshadows the later appearance of a whole bunch on the Pelennor - most noticeable in the movie (accompanied by the exclamation, "Goody!").

[Naldoriathil]

I've got another forshadowing for ya. When Galadriel gives Frodo the Phial Of Galadriel and says "may this be a light to you when all other lights go out." I like that one. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Thor]

This one seems to foreshadow the appearance of Shelob:

"Gandalf the Grey caught like a fly in a spider's treacherous web! Yet even the most subtle spiders may leave a weak thread." - Gandalf speaking about his escape from Orthanc at the Council of Elrond.

[Kalimac]

When Elrond is trying to convince Gandalf that it would be best to send Merry and Pippin back to the Shire, he says "The Shire, I forebode, is not free now from peril; and these two I had thought to send back there as messengers, to do what they could, according to the fashion of the country, to warn the people of their danger." Of course, Merry and Pippin are so fervently opposed to this that Elrond is convinced to let them go, and one forgets his words until about 900 pages later when they come back to the Shire and...well...you know.

Elrond also mentions that his "heart is against [Pippin's] going." Granted, Pippin in the end proved more than worth the trouble (saving Faramir etc) but he certainly let them in for some dreadful dangers along the way, as we all know, and almost did get killed by the troll in the end. Maybe Elrond foresaw that Pippin might be a bit of a liability, at least at first?

[Balin999]

Also, there is Frodo who is dreaming of the sea, although he has never seen it in real life. He at least heard the sound of it, I don't remember if he had seen it in his dreams.
And, remember the quote of Galadriel (to Legolas): If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore, thy soul shall then rest in the forest no more.
I think it is not quite clear if that has become true. Legolas surely thought that this meant that if he heard the sea-gulls, his death would be near. But has he ever returned to Mirkwood? I guess so... so Galadriels prediction has not fulfilled.

[Naldoriathil]

Actually Balin, I don't think Legolas ever did return to Mirkwood. In ROTK he says :"And I Shall walk in the woods of this fair land (Gondor or thereabouts). But Anduin is near, and Anduin leads to the Sea, The Sea!" From this, I think Legolas does go down to the sea....o well just a thought or two for you all there. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Naldoriathil]

Hello again. I just read in Appendix B at the back of ROTK, that Legolas in 1541 built a grey ship and Sailed down the Anduin and into the sea and so did Gimli. Won't post here again! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[Iarwain]

Here's one:

"They are coming."

Short but sweet.

[Purple Monkey]

Not that it holds much relevance, but I think it's safe to assume that Legolas did return to Mirkwood. Remember? He said;

"In days to come, if my elven lord allows, some of our folk shall remove hither; and when we come it shall be blessed, for a while. For a while: a month, a life, a hundred years of Men. But Anduin is near, and Anduin leads down to the Sea. To the Sea!"

I'd expect he had to return to Mirkwood to see about renting a little shack by the river. Also, he ventures up through Fangorn and the north, with Gimli, as is stated in the chapter "Many Partings". And it was Ithilien Legolas settled in. I loved that chapter! (Field of Cormallen) My favourite in the book save "The Golden Hall".

[burrahobbit]

"They are coming."

I don't think that counts as foreshadowing.

[alaklondewen]

I think it is interesting how Gollum is describe in 'spider-like' terms. One, for instance, is right before they enter Shelob's lair. This is obvious foreshadowing of what is to come.