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Old 11-05-2005, 05:05 PM   #201
Himilsillion
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White Tree

This track is my second favorite track of the entire score. I really like the varitions Shore put into the Rohan theme. You can here some large percussion playing after Eowyn's theme to the end. I think that adds some very nice touch to the harmony and the little details. The way the middle part (flute solo and Eowyn's theme) flows is very nice. I like how the transitions from the militaristic style and the soft emotional middle part.
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Old 11-06-2005, 03:02 PM   #202
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We Made it To Page 6!!!!!!
I also really like this track. The Rohan theme goes well into war mode.( the Lothlorien theme isn't as good at it) I like how this track begins fast, then has a slow middle and a fast ending. Merry's moment is so nice, I always thought it sounded like a variant of the Shire theme.
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:19 PM   #203
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Shield

I agree with you on that the Lothlorien theme dosn't go into "war mode" as well as the Rohan theme does. The Harmony lines in Rohirrim are just better than the The Lothlorien March. Plus there is better balance in Rohirrim in my opinion.
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Old 11-12-2005, 03:03 PM   #204
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Track 8: Twilight and Shadow

Okay, let's go with "Enca shall now update this thread either Friday or Saturday of every week, depending on what her schedule allows." And this week, it happens to be Saturday.

Quote:
Ngl cennin eriel vi
Menel aduial,
Glingant sui vr
Sliel mae.

Ngl cennin firiel vi
Menel aduial,
Dr, dr i fuin
Naenol mae.

I saw a star rise high in the
Evening sky,
It hung like a jewel,
Softly shining.

I saw a star fade in the
Evening sky,
The dark was too deep and so light died,
Softly pining.
So this is the part with Arwen and her vision. It's a nice scene, with lovely music, but the best part is, of course, Elrond in his little corsety robe. We can tell she is returning to Rivendell by the arpeggios of the Rivendell theme in the string section. A small oboe solo connects this section with a darker rendition of the same theme as the reforging of the sword is discussed. We then hear this:

Quote:
An i nathant
An i naun ului
A chuil, anann cuiannen
A meleth, pernen

For what might have been,
For what never was.
For a life, long lived
For a love half given
The soloist soars high as it is made clear that Arwen's decision is made.

So: do you like? Not like? Let's talk -- I want responses, especially seeing as you all were so distraught when I didn't update for a while.
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Old 11-12-2005, 05:16 PM   #205
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Thumbs up

I love the Arpeggios!!! The balance is good and the vocals are very pretty. I didn't really like the Oboe solo at 2:05 because it was to short and should have been more prominent in the transition. The transistion might have been better if you added some lower voices to harmonize with the Oboe. Personally I am not a big fan of oboe solos.
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Old 11-18-2005, 10:32 PM   #206
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I really like this track. Sometimes I try and sing along to see how far I can make it. Especially with those high notes at the end! I always end with a squeek so I stopped singing those two last notes. They are just too high for me.
I also love arpeggios and I sometimes call them bridges. That's what they look like on the page and I think they sound like it too.
Isn't Renee Flemming from Canada (I thought I heard that somewhere) I really like her voice. Plus this song goes so well with the scene but it doesn't sound too much like the stereotypical movie music that goes with emotional scenes. In general I think that Howard Shore is good at avoiding the stereotypical sound of movie music. E.G composers who try to write a movie theme that represents the style of the Dragonheart theme.
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Old 11-19-2005, 02:43 PM   #207
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Track 9: Cirith Ungol

Even though the tracks which correspond with our heroes in Mordor are generally not favorites of mine, this one is plain awesome in all its creepy glory. The first thirty seconds or so feature a solo -- a variant of the Ring theme -- on English horn. Strings move tentatively underneath; their erratic motion takes away the sensation of a metered piece and makes everything seem very free of form. The English horn then moves into a melody that seems related to the Shire theme... and ta-da! We then have the French horn on that same theme. This is the part when Frodo turns Sam away (cue book fans: "Huh?"), and the music is quite sad to match. The strings join the English horn on melody a la Shire music, rather than doing a tremolo underneath as they often do for Mordor, and indeed as they do at the end of this track. At 1:20, the string part initially reminded me of the music when the Fellowship is on Caradhras. But instead, we hear another rendition of the Ring theme on brass.

So, as my 8th grade history teacher used to say: "Questions? Comments? Short stories?"
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:02 PM   #208
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I'm not a fan of the mordor themes either but I do like this one. It is very creepy indeed. Especially when I first heard this track and the movie;it creeped me out.
The beginning of the track really gives me a sense of a barren landscape and the strings in the background make me think of the wind that is howling through the pass.
At the end we once again have the theme that we were first introduced to in FOTR while the fellowship climbed Caradhras, but it isn't as complete this time around since the theme ends in its Mordor alternative. Overall the listener knows that the hobbits have strayed into an environment that is far from hospitable.
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:49 PM   #209
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I missed number eight, and I'm really sorry I did, because that's one of my favorites.

Nine. . .This track I've always seen as cold and hard, as is really great because that's what it's supposed to be. It sounds hopeless to me, and that's really sad.

Not much else to say on this one.

-- Folwren
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Old 11-20-2005, 02:38 PM   #210
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I love the solos the solos are what make this piece. I like the solos a lot.
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Old 11-20-2005, 05:50 PM   #211
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Post 1700!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folwren
I missed number eight, and I'm really sorry I did, because that's one of my favorites.
This goes for everyone: if you miss a track and would like to comment on it anyway (as long as it's a relatively recent one), please feel free to do so! This thread is far from rigidly managed.
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Old 11-21-2005, 01:43 PM   #212
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Quote:
This goes for everyone: if you miss a track and would like to comment on it anyway (as long as it's a relatively recent one), please feel free to do so!
I'm quite glad to hear that, as I've been missing in action for quite a while...I'm sure you know how it is when life gets busy...

But I am indeed here now.


With tracks 3-5 I'll restrict my comments to saying that these three serve as a magnificent suite that shows off several facets of the Gondor theme; with Minas Tirith it's the more martial renditions during the battles; in The White Tree it's the triumphiant version as the city's hope is rekindled; and in The Steward Of Gondor it's the tragedy and nobility of their long defeat (to quote) that can be heard.

It's interesting to note that Gonor's culture is represented by the brass, much the same way Rohan is by the strings, and the Shire by the pipes and flutes...


I really like Minas Morgul, the bombast of screaming violins made this one of my favorite scenes to watch when ROTK was in theaters, but, yes...it's a rather odd choice to follow so closely after the quieter tracks before it.


Riders Of Rohan...Shore does something interesting here...at the begining of the track various sections the Rohan theme are being passed about by the orchestra, reflecting the rapid gathering of the troops...by the end, the whole orchestra plays the theme, Rohan is ready for war!


Quote:
At 0:52, there is a solo on a wooden flute... I am not sure if it's a theme we've heard before, but it's the part when Theoden tells Merry that he cannot come with the Riders. It sounds like it could be tied into the Shire theme, but at a much more sorrowful extreme.
I believe it is a variation of sorts on the Shire theme, or at least connected to it...it's also heard in The Black Gate Opens, when Frodo is struggling up Mount Doom.

The music after it, and before Eowyn's theme, is related to the beautiful motif from ROTK:EE heard when Eomer is telling Eowyn that Merry (and her) have no place in the war, and during the Merry's Simple Courage scene.

I love Eowyn's theme, bit of a pity it's only on the CDs three times....


Twilight And Shadow is just lovely.....


Most of the first statement of The Ring theme in Cirith Ungol is unused in the film, the horn is taken out of the sound-mix, but the strings remain.

I abhor Frodo sending Sam away, but I'll readily admit that the music is appropriately emotional, and that I'm quite fine with it once removed from the context of the film. Quite fine.

That is the "Cadahras theme" worked in there, it's also in track six, but in both cases the music was dropped from the film.
*********************
And as a final note, the FOTR box-set was moved back to December 13th, as no doubt you know if you've pre-ordered it from Amazon or etc....

ttbk
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Old 11-22-2005, 10:27 PM   #213
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Thanks TTTK
I would really like to hear more of the FOTR score and then we can discuss it on the Barrowdowns!!!! It could be the next thread after this one is done. We would be busy for a long time.
Once again, I'm coming back to your post TTTK. I had never really realized that the Ride of the Rohirrim has the Rohan theme passed around through the orchestra. But now that you mention it...I really like playing those kind of pieces where each section has its little moment to shine and pass the theme along.
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Old 11-25-2005, 08:09 PM   #214
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Track 10: Andril

The track opens with the Rivendell theme in the brass. It is then furthered and developed for much of the track with the whole orchestra and choir joining in.

Quote:
Elo! Andril; [choir: 0.28]
Lach en Annn [choir: 0.36]
I chatho asgannen, [choir: 0.43]
Ad echannen! [choir: 1.02]

Behold! Andril;
Flame of the West
The blade [that was] broken,
[has been] remade!
At 1:15, we return briefly to brass and lower strings in a melody that reminds me of a mix of Rivendell's music and "Into the West". At 1:43, the upper strings enter. At 1:56, there is growing tension; 2:17 to the end gives us that lovely softness in which Elrond and Aragorn say, "I give my hope to Men," "I keep none for myself".

The coolest part about this track is how the Rivendell theme is used in different ways. As TTBK pointed out in his last post, Shore seems to be using that technique a fair amount in this score.
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Old 11-26-2005, 07:45 PM   #215
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I thought there was a mix of the rivendell theme and the Minas Tirith(Gondor) theme. But the Into the west theme seems to be closely related to Minas Tirith theme and Howard Shore always seems to put them together.
I like this track but it is not my fabourite. Sometimes I am not in the mood for it either.
I really like how the strings join the brass, and how they together reach the climax.
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:28 AM   #216
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Tolkien

I think this track shows the suffering Gondor has been through and still will continue to go through at the hands of Suaron if he is not stopped. It also shows how much faith the men have put into Aragorn and, the hope that he puts in the men. Just like they said in the movie. I really like how Howard Shore blends the themes together. The blending of Rivendell's theme with Into the West shows the support of the elves for the victory over sauron.
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Old 12-03-2005, 01:27 PM   #217
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Sting Track 11: Shelob's Lair

The music in this track is super-creepy -- I think we can all agree on that! Like much of the music in Mordor, it's not necessarily the kind of thing you'd listen to for pleasure, but it definitely fits what's going on in the movie.

We begin with the lower voices, which are then joined by the upper strings in a very tentative style. Around 0:36, the pace picks up slightly, increasing the feeling of nervousness. (That little slidey noise at about 0:48 is very funky -- I envision the violinists just sliding a finger right up the E-string. Brief silence is followed by a re-entry of the lower instruments; the notes sound like slow, creeping footsteps. The upper strings enter frantically as Frodo runs. At 1:47 there's that cool tremolo and glissando that's been alerting us for much of the soundtrack that something particularly nasty is happening. And the track continues in a like manner. I won't bore you by listing every single entrance. The next important part comes at 3:30, where the horns play a more prominent part as the tension melts away -- Shelob has been driven off. Go Sam!
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Old 12-03-2005, 02:42 PM   #218
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This track really creeps me out! I actually don't listen to this one often because of it.
It has such an insect feel to it. All those violins playing a chaos of runs, arpeggios, and trills.Although it is not my favourite track it works so well with the scene. I think this is Howard Shore at its best. This horror genre is lukily not cheesy, no typical horror cords like the IH,IH,IH. I hope you know what I mean. Those discordant chords usually played when someone is stabbed several times or somthing like it.
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Old 12-03-2005, 03:08 PM   #219
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This track has always struck me as deviating somewhat from the style of the rest of Shore's score. Some moments in it remind me very strongly of the Star Wars scores- for instance, the lower voices 'creeping about' at the beginning, or the rising march-like figure in the brass at 3:10. And the quintessentially 'spidery' music at about 1:27 and continuing calls to mind Herrmann's Psycho score. On the other hand, other moments do relate strongly to the rest of the LotR score - for instance, the tremolo/glissando that Encaitare notes at 1:47. Overall, a very effective track.

Encaitare said something interesting:
Quote:
Like much of the music in Mordor, it's not necessarily the kind of thing you'd listen to for pleasure, but it definitely fits what's going on in the movie.
I wonder about this - to what extent do dark and depressing scenes warrant dark and depressing music that one wouldn't listen to for pleasure? I only bring it up because in my opinion there's a fallacy here, into which a fair number of directors, producers, and composers seem to be falling these days. The fallacy is that the best way to use music to accentuate unpleasantness is to make the music in some sense unpleasant. But it seems to me that music can suggest all these dark things while remaining thoroughly good, pleasurable music in its own right. I can think, for instance, of bits of Beethoven that could characterize Mordor quite well - and I think few would argue that Beethoven is not pleasurable.

John Williams said something about this in one of the Revenge of the Sith DVD special features - he noted (and I'm paraphrasing) that while the movie was certainly the darkest of the six, the score was probably not any darker than the other scores, because darkness need not be scored darkly.
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Old 12-04-2005, 08:46 PM   #220
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One comment on track 10:
Quote:
At 1:15, we return briefly to brass and lower strings in a melody that reminds me of a mix of Rivendell's music and "Into the West".
That's the "Silver Trumpet theme". The name comes from the scene where it's first heard; Boromir and Aragorn in Lothlorien, talking about Minas Tirith and "silver trumpets calling you home...".

The theme is associated with Gondor's line of kings, and it's rebirth with the return of the King.( ) It's heard once in FOTR, not at all in TTT, and in ROTK it's heard in Minas Tirith (as Gandalf and Pippin arrive at the city), the begining of The White Tree (as they pass by the white tree), and then here. There are also several statements not on the album, most notably when Anduril is reforged, and then quite beautifully during "The Decline Of Gondor".


Shelob's Lair actually is the kind of thing I sometimes listen to for pleasure. As Aiwendil noted, I can hear Hermann in this...sounds a lot like parts of Cape Fear.

This is Shore going back to his roots, with The Fly, and other horror scores...creepy indeed!


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Old 12-10-2005, 04:38 PM   #221
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Track 12:Ash and Smoke

Encaitare is away so I will just introduce track 12.

It begins with low brass and violins. It really has an urgent tone to it. I think the eeriest part of this track is when the choir joins in at 1:10. There is a reall build up to it with the trumpets. I don't really like that part because the trumpets are muffled (you kow when they put the muffler in their bells.) It has such a harsh sound bu it does fit Mordor.
However, I do like the track overall because of the choir and the overall creepy mood that is maintained throughout the track.
So what do you think?
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Old 12-17-2005, 12:43 PM   #222
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Track 13: the Fields of the Pelennor

Before I put up the next track, I shall give a few brief thoughts on Track 12.

I love how the horns in LotR (both in the soundtrack and the ones the Rohirrim use) all sound in a perfect fifth. I don't know if that's how medieval horns were; I've been trying to find out, unsuccessfully. Anyhow, since the open fifth is such a pure interval, I think it does succeed in making that sound meant to inspire warriors in battle.

The choir is lovely and eerie. I did a bit of searching and found this for the lyrics:

Quote:
Coll am
na waewath goeyl

Tellin i Neder
Gurth renia

Meditha han phan
Meditha ar dhon

[Source]

Borne aloft
By fell winds.

The Nine have come
Death has taken wing.

He will eat it all
Eat all the world.
This sounds right to me, although the lyrics only make sense in the EE DVD, when Gandalf and the Witch-King face off.

Now for the next track! There is a low playing of the Rohan theme at the very beginning. Then there are these astonishing chords at 0:50, which I think is one of the most beautiful progressions in the whole score, and I admire its simplicity. I listened to it several times and figured out the chords to that little section (0:50-1:07). I think it's right, although maybe I messed up an inversion. The key is A minor:

i VI6 i v6 i VI6 iii6 VII6/4 VI

By the end of the phrase, it's moved into F major and arpeggiates in a little fanfare. Then it moves quickly into music akin to that of Mordor. At 1:47 the choir comes back in. Here, the two sites I've been using conflict. A Magpie's Nest says that the Ringwraith words that I quoted above are what the choir is saying; Gwaith-i-Phethdain says it's this:

Quote:
Dollost - dr cuiol
u-'ar nin degi!

Le echelithar aen
Athar fuin ban
Rhaw ln mannen
Ind tham ln
Lanc na chen be-thobas.

Anant i vaethor -ritha
Hn Rohan
Fim sui anghathel
Bain a goeol.

Na vedui istant
Na vedui cenn
Dr -naun hon...
Vess e tiriant.


You fool - no living man
Can kill me!

You will be borne away
Beyond all darkness;
Your flesh devoured;
Your shriveled mind
Left naked to the lidless eye.

But still the soldier did not move,
Child of Rohan,
Slender as a steel-blade,
Fair yet terrible.

Too late he knew,
Too late saw,
This was no man...
He looked upon a woman.
I'm inclined to go with the first one because it seems to fit better. The track closes on another triumphant fanfare.
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Old 12-17-2005, 06:27 PM   #223
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Hello all. Magpie here. I found this thread by following information in my site statistics and was intrigued by the discussion so I've been following along for a few weeks now.

I know this is primarily a music discussion, not lyric, but I thought I could provide some information on the discrepancy in lyrics between my site and Ryszard's (G-i-P).

The poem Angmar can be found in an article about David Salo in a magazine issue devoted to the LOTR soundtracks. It says, "Witch King Attacks Eowyn". The poem The Nazgul can be found in the same issue in an article about ROTK. It says, "The Nazgul attack Minas Tirith".

You will notice that G-i-P lists both poems as being contained in The Fields of the Pelennor. For Angmar. it gives a time stamp. For The Nazgul, it provides phonetic syllables which match the words in that poem.

Since the phonetic lyrics come from the LOTR Symphony, we know they were sung there. Also, I know someone who had a score from the symphony and she confirmed they were sung to The Ringwraith Theme. (That section of track 13 is considered a Ringwraith variant.)

I can't explain why G-i-P has lists Angmar as being sung there, but the phonetic lyrics are what convince me that the lyrics are from The Nazgul and my ears confirm this.

I'm not trying to defend my position... I just never expect anyone to take anything on faith. Usually when I disagree with someone, like in this track, I try to explain my opinion. For some reason, I didn't do that - probably because I was rushing a lot to get those last cue by cues up. It is my intention to some day email Ryszard with my corrections. I haven't taken the time to yet, but he hasn't updated his movie work in awhile either. I suspect we're both just busy.

I'm happy that my work has been a support for this lovely discussion. I'll keep following along, if you don't mind. And watch the What's New section of A Magpie's Nest for updates in the next few weeks.

edit:
ahem... interesting label I have there, "newly deceased". I can assure you I feel quite healthy... except for this cough.
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Old 12-17-2005, 11:32 PM   #224
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Shield

This is going to be a quick post and hopefully I can say something a little bit longer later, but the beginning of this song always reminds me of Mars: The Bringer of War. It's just that opening beat that is so soft I have to turn my speakers up all the way to hear it.
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Old 12-18-2005, 12:06 AM   #225
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Welcome to the Downs, Magpie! It's great to see you here, especially since your site has provided such excellent references and information to help in our discussions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie
I can't explain why G-i-P has lists Angmar as being sung there, but the phonetic lyrics are what convince me that the lyrics are from The Nazgul and my ears confirm this.
I agree; I was going crazy trying to follow the Angmar lyrics along with the music and it just wouldn't work... finally I tried it with The Nazgul, and lo and behold, it fit.

Enjoy reading the thread, and feel free to put your two cents in at anytime!
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Old 12-19-2005, 06:40 PM   #226
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I really like the beginning of this track. Every time I hear it I picture the Rohirrim gathering at the edge of the Pellenor Fields. For the rest I don't have much to say about this track.
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Old 12-24-2005, 01:41 PM   #227
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Silmaril

I think we'll take a brief hiatus during the holiday season, since everyone will surely be so busy (myself very much included!). Have a lovely Christmas/Hanukkah/Yule/any other winter holiday or lack thereof, my dears!
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Old 12-31-2005, 12:57 PM   #228
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Track 14: Hope Fails

I hope you all had a fantabulous holiday! Now we may return triumphantly to our musical fun.

This track begins with the low brass in a very deconstructed version of the Mordor theme. Not too exciting, but at 0:19 there's this little sound that's pretty cool. I've no idea what it is; some kind of percussion, I guess. Upper strings come in at 0:24, and at 0:41 they move into what immediately reminded me of Eowyn's theme. But according to Magpie's site, this section is when the Mouth of Sauron brings out Frodo's mithril coat, so that wouldn't make sense. Whatever it is, it moves into a horn solo, and at 1:43, the rest of the brass section comes in with a discordant fanfare. The music drops and then grows, concluding the track.

Any thoughts about what that middle section might be?

Happy New Year!
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Old 01-01-2006, 11:43 AM   #229
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An article in my local paper today about the new 4 disc Fellowship soundtrack: Chord of the 'Rings'

Newsday loves horrible puns.
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Old 01-01-2006, 10:25 PM   #230
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Here's a section from the magazine "Music from the Movies", issue 42 - devoted (almost) to the LOTR soundtrack.
'Hope Fails' has a dark opening with low celli that evolves into a dark and ominous brass part. What does this music lead us to?
This track on the CD begins with the celli playing the music for 'The Army of the Dead' and there are certain motifs that I use for this. The choral music is performed with all-male singers; they are singing a part of the poem called 'The Dimholt Road' in Sindarin. (magpie: there are no voices on this track that I can discern... perhaps the interview preceded the final mix of the track or HS is speaking of that section of the movie... not just the CD.) The structure of the piece, the composition and the orchestration is unique to 'The Army of the Dead'. It's how I arrived at the counterpoint by using long and very fast moving lines. I used Tibetan hanging gongs; the lower extremes of the piano, contrabassoon, bassoons, and the bass clarinet were all used in very specific ways. The writing is modern and using clusters of sound within the voices. 'The Army of the Dead' is based more in the twentieth century than other parts of the score.

About one minute into this CD track there's a part I love which will be on the DVD, but it's not in the film. It's really what 'Hope Fails' was all about; it's a piece I wrote for a scene at 'The Black Gate'. It's a scene when Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, Pippin, and Gandalf approach the black gate, Sauron sends out one of his emissaries to meet the. He comes out and at one point of their discussion he takes out the mithril vest Frodo was wearing, and he implies that Frodo suffered greatly and he's dead.
My comments:
I've just checked my friend, Michael's, analysis of the ROTK TE and he says this about the Paths of the Dead scene (first part):
Released material: ROTK, 14, 0:01-0:41. Mostly unreleased, with some unreleased choral work as the Army of the Dead gathers around.
so the singing is in the movie but not on the CD.

I don't think the sound Encaitare is hearing at 0:19 is the gong. I wonder if it's the monochord although perhaps not. You might also try listening to the sarangi. Both instruments were used for Lothlorien/Elven music and I don't know that he would use it for such a dark purpose as well.

For a really, odd sound... listen to the sound made when that first Orc falls at Helm's Deep.

oh... and here's a link the article Chord of the Rings ... which I just got, btw (the pun - not the link)... had to think hard there a moment.

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Old 01-03-2006, 04:10 PM   #231
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I like "Hope Fails" because of that strange sound. Now that choral work has been mentioned I can't wait for the complete score of ROTK because it is so difficult to hear all the music when there is dialogue over top.

I was really happy this christmas because I got the complete FOTR score and its awesome!!!Now I still have some LOTR things to look forward to at christmas time.
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Old 01-03-2006, 06:04 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie

I don't think the sound Encaitare is hearing at 0:19 is the gong. I wonder if it's the monochord although perhaps not. You might also try listening to the sarangi. Both instruments were used for Lothlorien/Elven music and I don't know that he would use it for such a dark purpose as well.
I don't think it's the monochord. That sounds more like a really low sitar. This sound seems to be more like tympani to me.

As for that mystery theme in the middle of the track, I've always associated it with Gondor.
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Old 01-04-2006, 09:42 AM   #233
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Quote:
Any thoughts about what that middle section might be?
I might just being hearing things (well, obviously , but you know what I mean...), but I think that might be the "Merry's Simple Courage" theme; heard at 1:36:58, and 1:50:00 on disc one of ROTKEE, 10:35 of the second disc, and at 1:12 of The Ride Of The Rohirrim.



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Old 01-08-2006, 01:04 AM   #234
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Track 15: the Black Gate Opens

The track opens with a pounding, steady rhythm. This then moves into a cool medley that moves between themes: Rohan, Gondor, and finally the Fellowship theme at 0:31. Men of the West indeed!

At 0:50, it quiets down, and at 1:00 we hear the most excellent Sir James Galway on tin whistle, playing a sadder variation of the Shire theme.

At 1:40, the rest of the orchestra enters, soon after joined by the choir. They sing an excerpt of this:

Quote:
Caedo, losto. -erin davo.
Amman harthach? Anim nad.
Le tg nach. O hon -wannathon.
-moe le anno nad. nen a hon beth nn.
Gurth han ristatha. Ta han narcho Gurth.
Gar vethed e-chnen, go hon bedithon na meth.


Lie down, sleep. / I cannot yield.
Why do you still hope? / I have nothing else.
You are a fool. / I will not leave him.
You owe him nothing / I gave him my word.
Death will break it. / Then let death break it.
He has the last of my heart. / I will go with him to the end.
Meanwhile, the tin whistle continues with a similar melody to before, and finally culminates in the "Into the West" theme with full orchestra. *loves Sir James Galway to little bits*
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:22 PM   #235
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I LOVE James Galway( the way he plays the flute) If I ever could play like that,well...
He manages to get such a smooth sound out of his flute and I know how hard it is because my flute is always sharp. (My flute has tuning issues)
The first time I heard that track I was so touched and it is one of my favourites. Not only does it go so well with the movie, it goes very well on its own too.
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Old 01-09-2006, 12:03 PM   #236
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It's been too long...

I quote here Music from the Movies magazine (#42), should you be interested in what Howard Shore has to say about this track.

"There are two parts to 'The Black Gate Opens', the battle at the gate and Sam with Frodo on Mount Doom. How did you combine these two parts on your CD track and what are the main thematic elements here?"

"'The Black Gate Opens' is the final act of The Fellowship to create a diversion that will allow Frodo and Sam to carry The Ring up to the top of Mount Doom. The CD track 'The Black Gate Opens' begins with Aragorn's speech and then ends with Sam and Frodo on Mount Doom. Sauron opens the gates and tens of thousands of Orcs march out to destroy them. That final moment at The Black Gate is a test of will. The piece starts with Aragorn trying to raise the courage of the troops because they know it's a suicide mission. They are completely overwhelmed, there's no way to survive what's coming and Aragorn tries to raise their moral and lead them on. He gives an inspiring speech, that's the first part of 'The Black Gate Opens'. The piece is a combination of The Fellowship at The Black Gate that's inner-cut with the events unfolding on Mount Doom with Frodo and Sam.

There's also a part of the score not on the CD where Aragorn is at The Black Gate getting his troops ready for battle. The battle doesn't ensue until Frodo has The Ring at the Crack of Doom. When he decides not to throw it in, the battle starts to take place down below in front of The Black Gate. Aragorn says, "For Frodo," and rushes into battle. This is the start of the final battle at The Black Gate. I'm using a development of 'The Fellowship Theme' here, a choral version of it, because it was The Fellowship who joined against Sauronas they charge into battle against the Orcs. There's a battle between Gollum and Sam, that's when the Eagles attack the Nazgl and Gandalf sees the moth, you hear a bit of that 'Nature Moth Theme' from The Fellowship. It's sung by the boy soprano, Ben del Maestro. The correct name of it is 'The Nature Theme', but it's triggered by the sight of the moth. When Gandalf sees the Eagles appear and the battle starts shifting, the music is very thematic; it has to do with 'The Fellowship Theme', 'The Nature Theme'. Then it's the scenes with Frodo and Sam on Mount Doom that highlight the score to the second part of 'The Black Gate Opens'. The film is cutting back and forth, you have Frodo and Sam on the slopes of Mount Doom and you hear that piece as they remember The Shire and when they hope to return home. That's part of a piece I wrote for Sir James Galway. This is just before Sam picks Frodo up in his arms and you hear 'The Grey Havens Theme'. This music evokes the courage of these two little Hobbits, putting both of their lives at stake for the greater good of Middle-earth. The music has an uplifting quality to it; it builds around the strength of these characters.

Music in films is about perspective and there are many different types of perspectives in a scene. What you're seeing on the screen often doesn't need to be reinforced. This piece also takes on a certain perspective about the characters and it's enriching, it is subtext. The perspective is drawing you to the idea that this person is heroic even though he's undergoing the worst possible struggle of his life. As Sam carries Frodo up Mount Doom we hear a choir part sung in Sindarin. The track ends when Sam offers to carry The Ring for Frodo. Frodo would never let Sam carry The Ring; it was the same with Bilbo. Bilbo never wanted to relinquish The Ring, but Gandalf convinced him to leave it to his nephew Frodo. The Ring has great physical weight to it. Sam says to Frodo at one point where he's near collapsing, "I can't carry The Ring, but I can carry you", and he picks him up with all the last bit of strength that he has. It's a great act of courage and is the ending of the track 'The Black Gate Opens'."

"Peter said that you wrote a completely new theme for Frodo and Sam when they were on Mount Doom. Explain your approach to this theme?"

"I think he's referring the part played by Sir James. It's a new piece I wrote that underscores Sam and Frodo's struggle. It's a choral-based, written to work with Sir James' Tin Whistle. It's a brand new theme of courage. There are different pieces relating to Frodo, mostly Shire music, elements of The Shire, and it's the same with Sam, that's really where their music comes from. This scene is similar to that in its use of harmonies and even the use of the Tin Whistle is part of The Shire. The whistle is The Shire. If we used particular sounds for characters we wanted to carry them the storyline for clarity." ~Howard Shore

***


I like this track very much. The tin whistle is unbelievably beautiful and it will represent The Shire to me probably always. Funny that although this track is a combination of so many themes and it's jumping from the Black Gate to Mount Doom and back, it sounds so- well, whole. As Lathriel said, this is a wonderful composition whether you listen to it as a part of the film or just as a piece of music.

When I first read the title 'The Black Gate Opens' from the back cover of the RotK CD, I was expecting something similar to 'The Black Gate is Closed' in TTT, but after I watched the movie and listened to the soundtrack, I was pleasantly surprised. The battle at the Black Gate and Frodo and Sam struggling up Mount Doom are one of my favourite parts in the whole trilogy and I couldn't have wished a better score for it. Wonderful!
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:41 PM   #237
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I like how this track kind of "summarizes" all the themes from the Shire theme all the way to the Into the West theme. The hobbit theme solo is awesome I really like it. Great song for the climax of the trilogy.
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Old 01-16-2006, 01:14 AM   #238
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Track 16: the End of All Things

Sorry for the delay! A research paper has been owning my soul.

This track is just chock-full of choral goodies! From the very beginning, the choir, brass, and pounding timpani deliver a harsh, loud sound that perfectly captures the conflict in Sammath Naur. Philippa Boyens' poem "The Destruction of the Ring" goes like this:

Quote:
Mi naurath Orodruin
Boe hedi i Vin.
Han i vangad i moe ben bango.
Sin eriol natha tr n garnen
Sin eriol m beleg gannen
cilith 'war
men 'war
Boe vin mebi
Boe vin bango

Into the fires of Orodruin
The One must be cast.
This [is] the price that must be paid.
Only thus its power will be undone,
Only thus a great evil unmade.
There is no other choice,
There is no other way.
One of you must take it,
One of you must pay.
However, in the track the order is different:

Quote:
Sin eriol natha tr n garnen
Mi naurath Orodruin
Boe hedi i Vin
Han i vangad i moe ben
tr n garnen
Sin eriol
cilith 'war
Boe vin mebi
Boe vin bango

Translated, this would be:

Only thus its power will be undone
Into the fires of Orodruin
The One must be cast.
This [is] the price that must be [paid]
Power will be undone
Only thus
No other choice
One of you must take it,
One of you must pay.
I suppose these changes of order were done so the words would better fit the music.

At 1:08, Renee Fleming has a lovely solo:

Quote:
Sin eriol m beleg gannen
cilith 'war
Boe vin mebi
Boe vin bango
All stuff we've heard before; you can figure out what it means if it's that important to you. The choir uses some of the same text one last time:

Quote:
Boe hedi i Vn.
Sin eriol m beleg gannen
Then the choir grows softer, less harsh, and we get some new lyrics! This is the whole of "The Mountain of Fire" poem:

Quote:
Nu dalav
rui tuiannen na ruith
Leithia Orodruin oe in phan.
Ristannen i geven,
Danna eliad morn.
Si, na vethed
Meth i naid bain
I wilith ria
I ardhon ban lacha!

Beneath the ground
Swollen hot with anger
Orodruin releases all its ruin.
Earth rips asunder
Black rain falls.
Here at the end;
The end of all things.
The air is aflame,
All the world is on fire!
What is sung:

Quote:
Si, na vethed
The air is aflame,
All the world is on fire!

Here at the end
The air is aflame
All the world is on fire
As this is sung, we can hear the Ring's seduction theme/motif played in the lowest instruments (3:07).

According to the sheet music as cited on GiP, it continues as follows:

Quote:
Nu da naid bain e
rin le regi erin le na
thi eri o nin gwanno
No proper translation is given, though, so from searching through the texts of the songs in this track I think it means roughly this:

Quote:
...all things
I cannot reach you
I cannot let you leave me
With this final line, we hear both a bit of the Fellowship theme and a turn for the better.

Next is another Renee Fleming solo:

Quote:
Orthannen im vi l
Coll e d
Or hiriath naur
Na rovail mae sui 'waew
Man prestant i ardhon?
Cerithar aen illiad dim thenin?

In a dream I was lifted up.
Borne from the darkness
Above the rivers of fire.
On wings doft as the wind.
What's happened to the world?
Is everything sad going to come untrue?
So beautiful! I just thought of this... I like how Quenya was used at the very beginning, in the first track of Fellowship to show the antiquity and history, but the rest is Sindarin, the more modern of the two tongues, even if the Elves are fading.

Any thoughts? Which part is your favorite?
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Old 01-18-2006, 05:40 PM   #239
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I don't really like the beginning of this track. However, as soon as Renee Fleming joins the mix of choral lines throughout the track I like it better. She just has such a beautiful voice!! It is so dramatic and this track certainly gives a climax feeling.
The choir sounds very urgent and because they are mainly chanting at the beginning of the track I get this feeling of pressure. It has now come to the final scene and there is a huge pressure on Frodo since he has to throw in the ring but he can't do it and I think that the chanting certainly adds to that pressure the scene already has.
When Renee Fleming interupts the chant I see it as the ring seducing Frodo one last time. Then the choir continues and again adds pressure.
When Renee sings again it gives me chills and the melody tells us it is over,it is done.
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Old 01-19-2006, 09:45 AM   #240
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Some don't like it, but I think it's brilliant in this track when it goes into the Renee Fleming solo as Gollum holds up the Ring. It's like all of a sudden, everything stops as Gollum has his moment.

This is a great track. Don't have anything to add about it musically, but it has that "this is it, the real true climax" epic feel. And of course, the second Fleming solo, done while the Eagles carry Frodo and Sam from Mt. Doom, also fits brilliantly.

This is possibly the best choral track in the entire LOTR soundtracks (although Foundations of Stone would have to fit in there somewhere too).
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