Why the name Sharkey? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Airehiriel · 01-29-2003, 08:26 AM

It has been a while since I read RotK, but I have a question that has been in the back of my mind since. Why on earth did Tolkien give Saruman the name Sharkey? After all the ME names and places, and adventures that we went on through the book, Sharkey just sticks out so much. It seems to me, out of place.

Does anyone know how the name Sharkey came about or what Tolkien's reasoning was? As I said, to me, it seemed to be out of the flow of the rest of the book.

Thanks

Rimbaud · 01-29-2003, 08:30 AM

Sharkey is a derivation of Sharkû, meaning 'Old Man' in Orkish. Other inferences are unclear. It may also be a reference to the Old Man who was the leader of the Assassins in Mandeville's Travels but this has always struck me as tenuous at best.

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Rimbaud ]

Jurion · 01-29-2003, 08:33 AM

Sharkey means 'Old Man' in Orcish as Rimbaud said and that was what some Orcs called Saruman.

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-29-2003, 08:35 AM

I though 'Sharku' was Orcish for old man.

Rimbaud · 01-29-2003, 09:02 AM

Indeed, Sharkey is thereof a derivation.

Airehiriel · 01-29-2003, 10:08 AM

Thanks, guys! Now it makes a lot of sense. Every time I read that name, instead of getting the idea of Saruman, an evil wizard, I was getting the mental image of some young 50's street punk in a leather jacket, whose nickname was Sharkey! It amused me greatly, but didn't seem to make sense to me. Now the word takes on a whole new connotation.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 01-29-2003, 11:09 AM

I've a feeling that Tolkien intended for people to think of second-rate criminals when they heard the name. For me Saruman's new nickname encapsulates his fall from chief Istar to cheap hood rather well.

Lyra Greenleaf · 01-29-2003, 01:43 PM

Yeah, I love that, the fact that "SARUMAN THE WHITE" all big and important, has become this 2-bit crook, 'sharkey'. I can imagine himrunning a protection racket or something! its hardly a respectful nickname is it?

and instead of all ME all he can hold dominion over are this little hobbits!

it shows the levels of his spite well that he actually does this, cos you'd think his pride would stop him really.

Aredhelaran · 01-30-2003, 04:46 PM

SHarku is Orkish for Old man. IN Isengeard they called Saruman either Sharku or Sharkey. Saruman seems to have brought some of his Orc0like men north with him, which is probably why he was called Sharkey

Rosseiliantiel · 01-30-2003, 07:47 PM

The name Sharkey...just makes me laugh. Sharku, yes. Sharkey...just doesn't fit to well. But it's funny!

the guy who be short · 01-31-2003, 05:41 AM

i knew sharkey was derived from sharku, old man, but i never thought about how this affects him as a character, going from saruman the white to sharkey
thank you to evrybody! you are all very clever!

01-29-2003, 08:26 AM	#1
Airehiriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 470	Why the name Sharkey? It has been a while since I read RotK, but I have a question that has been in the back of my mind since. Why on earth did Tolkien give Saruman the name Sharkey? After all the ME names and places, and adventures that we went on through the book, Sharkey just sticks out so much. It seems to me, out of place. Does anyone know how the name Sharkey came about or what Tolkien's reasoning was? As I said, to me, it seemed to be out of the flow of the rest of the book. Thanks __________________ Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty? Job 11:7

01-29-2003, 08:30 AM	#2
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,096	Sharkey is a derivation of Sharkû, meaning 'Old Man' in Orkish. Other inferences are unclear. It may also be a reference to the Old Man who was the leader of the Assassins in Mandeville's Travels but this has always struck me as tenuous at best. [ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Rimbaud ] __________________ And all the rest is literature

01-29-2003, 08:35 AM	#4
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	I though 'Sharku' was Orcish for old man. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

01-29-2003, 09:02 AM	#5
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,096	Indeed, Sharkey is thereof a derivation. __________________ And all the rest is literature

01-29-2003, 10:08 AM	#6
Airehiriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 470	Thanks, guys! Now it makes a lot of sense. Every time I read that name, instead of getting the idea of Saruman, an evil wizard, I was getting the mental image of some young 50's street punk in a leather jacket, whose nickname was Sharkey! It amused me greatly, but didn't seem to make sense to me. Now the word takes on a whole new connotation. __________________ Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty? Job 11:7

01-29-2003, 08:33 AM	#3
Jurion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 85	Sharkey means 'Old Man' in Orcish as Rimbaud said and that was what some Orcs called Saruman.

01-29-2003, 11:09 AM	#7
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,206	I've a feeling that Tolkien intended for people to think of second-rate criminals when they heard the name. For me Saruman's new nickname encapsulates his fall from chief Istar to cheap hood rather well. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

01-29-2003, 01:43 PM	#8
Lyra Greenleaf The Diaphanous Dryad Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: R toL: 531, past the wild path Posts: 1,180	Yeah, I love that, the fact that "SARUMAN THE WHITE" all big and important, has become this 2-bit crook, 'sharkey'. I can imagine himrunning a protection racket or something! its hardly a respectful nickname is it? and instead of all ME all he can hold dominion over are this little hobbits! it shows the levels of his spite well that he actually does this, cos you'd think his pride would stop him really. __________________ “Sylphs of the forest,” I whispered. “Spirits of oak, beech and ash. Dryads of Rowan and hazel, hear us. You who have guided and guarded our every footstep, you who have sheltered our growth, we honour you." the Forbidden Link

01-30-2003, 04:46 PM	#9
Aredhelaran Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31	SHarku is Orkish for Old man. IN Isengeard they called Saruman either Sharku or Sharkey. Saruman seems to have brought some of his Orc0like men north with him, which is probably why he was called Sharkey

01-30-2003, 07:47 PM	#10
Rosseiliantiel Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hopelessly lost Posts: 178	The name Sharkey...just makes me laugh. Sharku, yes. Sharkey...just doesn't fit to well. But it's funny! __________________ Whatever floats your oyster.

01-31-2003, 05:41 AM	#11
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,496	i knew sharkey was derived from sharku, old man, but i never thought about how this affects him as a character, going from saruman the white to sharkey thank you to evrybody! you are all very clever!