Other possible movies based on Tolkien's work

[CSteefel]

I was interested to see the discussion of a possible version of the Hobbit, perhaps by Peter Jackson. I don't see this book as having sufficient drama and even plot to make a really good movie, although I must admit I found more to admire there upon a recent re-reading than I had remembered. Still, this was mostly Tolkien's richly textured descriptive prose showing up here and there, but the story still comes across as a bit too much of a simple adventure story in my mind (the story is not completely woven into the historical fabric of Middle Earth the way Lord of the Rings is).

Anyway, what other works, stories, or passages from Tolkien might make a good movie with the right additional material? I will probably change my view next month, but a few that come to mind:

1. Turin and Tuor
   I have seen discussion of a possible book to be released by Christopher Tolkien. These stories, particularly if used as a sort of counterpoint, might make a good movie.
2. North Kingdom of Arnor
   Although not all that much in the way of stories have come out of this period in the 3rd age, I have always been fascinated for some reason by the North Kingdom and the battles with the Witch King. I thought I was the only one, but I guess if somebody is naming this Board "The Barrow Downs", there must be some others. Perhaps the end of the kingdom and the death of Arvedui, followed by the battle between Earnur and the Witch King. Obviously what would need to be added here, however, would be a more human story to counterbalance the historical setting.
3. Story of Thror and Thrain
   Much would have to be added here.
4. Earlier Days of Gandalf
   Perhaps the first (2063) or second visit (2850) of Gandalf to Dol Goldur. I think this would be more interesting than the actual attack on Dol Goldur that takes place during The Hobbit.

Just some thoughts...

[mormegil]

The only viable option I can see is The Hobbit. Yes the story is more simple, yet that is one of the major reasons why it would make a good movie. The movie could stay fairly true to the books.

The other movies you suggest, while extremely interesting to me, probably wouldn't be that interesting to many of the LOTR movie fans. The crowd would be too much of a niche crowd for a major motion pciture. The Hobbit, however, is something that would draw most all fans of the movies and books and would likely be less violent than the trilogy movies and therefore be viewed even by a younger crowd. Likely it would be a great box office success.

[Macalaure]

There are many tales from The Silmarillion that would make a good movie: The Rebellion of the Noldor, Beren and Lúthien, The Children of Húrin (with Túrin), The Fall of Gondolin (with Tuor) (perhaps together with the Ruin of Doriath and the Voyage of Eärendil). These four could make a nice quadrilogy as they're the main ingredients of the Silmarillion proper. The Drowning of Númenor and the Last Alliance would make a good one film, too.
The problem is, that the rights to the Silmarillion are with Christopher Tolkien. Talking him into selling them might prove to be not so easy a feat, mildly speaking.

There's a whole forum working on a Silmarillion movie fan project (Link) You will even find some resident Downers there.

Here's a site that has a lot ideas on a Númenor movie. (Link) Made by the same person who runs Ardalambion.

There was a film script for the Children of Húrin somewhere on the net once, too, but I can't find the link right now. I will maybe edit this later.

[Anguirel]

Macalaure, you are my conscience! I haven't visited the Silm Film project for a long time and I think it's time for me to pop back there occasionally...

I've written a Leithian script there and there's also an exciting Fall of the Noldor script by the other relatively active member, Huinesoron...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Turin and Tuor
I have seen discussion of a possible book to be released by Christopher Tolkien. These stories, particularly if used as a sort of counterpoint, might make a good movie.

It's unfortunate that (at least so far) CT hasn't found/edited a
more comprehensive account of Tuor (like that provided for
Turin). Together as a film , intercut somewhat like Peter Jackson's
LOTR, they would make an interesting movie, with the more
upbeat Tuor tale contrasting with Turin. Of course, it would
probably be a higher movie rating, unless the unwitting incest
is finessed.

[Aiwendil]

I've said it before - the Turin saga would make a cinematic masterpiece. Or rather, it could make a cinematic masterpiece; if done in Hollywood in this day and age I don't expect it would nearly live up to its potential. I can see it as a dark "cult classic", not well received or known in the mainstream but revered by a certain breed of film connoisseur. I can see it as a Bergman-esque film, for instance.

There are other stories in the Silmarillion that could make good movies as well. "Beren and Luthien" has all the trappings of a great hit. "The Fall of Gondolin" could perhaps be done. "The Ruin of Doriath" might work.

But I suspect that if any of these were done today as big budget, high profile films, they would not be done right. And I do not just mean that changes would be made to the stories.

Here's an idea I haven't seen before: what about Roverandom as a sort of children's movie? Perhaps a cartoon? Though I would worry that the style would be "Disneyfied" to use Tolkien's (disparaging) word.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Aiwendil, I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding CoH. It's such an incredibly dark story with a tragic, almost quasi-Shakespearian ending (yes, I know Tolkien hated Shakespeare, but still). I think it would make a PHENOMENAL movie, if done right, but I don't trust even PJ to do that one right.

The best possibility I can see (after The Hobbit) is Beren and Luthien. It would probably have to be longer than ROTK, and again, I don't know that I'd trust PJ with it, but talk about an incredible story. Romance, adventure, treachery, heroism, and Carcharoth -- it's got it all.

But of course, there will be no Silmarillion-based movies in CJRT's lifetime. And who knows whether his heirs will be any more willing to sell film rights than he was.

[Gothmog]

Hmmm, CSteefe, you seem to be more succesful than this pathetic attempt I would love to see a movie/movies based upon Silmarillion! I've always dreamed of that, but as others have said, it's close to impossible right now. But if, IF, it could be done, someone decide that money could be made and Ct gave his approval, then Turin's story would indeed make a great movie. If done the correct way.

You'll have to capture that dark feeling of ever present doom and the tragic of it all. I'm not sure the ordinary audience will be drawn to that kind of movie, not if they expect an other LotR. The fans (and there are a few of those) will of course be thrilled, but that might not be good enough for greedy film companies.

It's an advanced project, but I hope it can, and will, be done!

[Macalaure]

I'm not sure the ordinary audience will be drawn to that kind of movie, not if they expect an other LotR.

Unfortunately, exactly that is the dilemma. A CoH or any Silmarillion-based movie is doomed to be about as expensive to produce as one of the LotR films. So, if you don't want to lose money, you have to get the ordinary audience into the cinema.

I think one could do a Númenor-movie, which is more closely related to the LotR, at least in topic, not in atmosphere. The closer link will get enough people into the cinemas to be a success. And if it ends up to be a real success, making a Silmarillion proper quadrilogy (or so) is not such a risk anymore.


What do you think about the idea to make an animated Silmarillion TV-series? It's not only cheaper, but it also doesn't have to keep itself to the restrictions of a movie. Side stories (The Coming of Men into the West, for example) that wouldn't find a place in movies would find their places on the screen this way.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

What do you think about the idea to make an animated Silmarillion TV-series? It's not only cheaper, but it also doesn't have to keep itself to the restrictions of a movie.

I would have to say a definite no on animation. The only animation I really like these days is 3D, and that only works with children's films. The Silmarillion is much too serious for any sort of animation.

As for putting the Silmarillion on TV, it could work but it's highly unlikely. TV shows are difficult to put on the air, and very few survive a season without being cancelled. A project like the Silmarillion would be risky and the audience would have to be drawn into the show within the first episode (43 minutes). Though, perhaps you are thinking of a mini-series? Something like that would be less risky and like you said, cheaper. The only thing I'd be afraid of is that the word "cheaper" would show in the work. I admit I haven't seen many mini-series, but the ones I have seen tend to be slightly low-quality and the visual effects are just plain awful.

I'd prefer to see parts of the Silmarillion on the big screen. If it were to be made a film, I'm sure the filmmakers and cast would be excellent and the budget would be huge. As much as we'd like to see all the stories on screen, the reality is that a general audience would probably only take to a few of the stories anyways.

Personally, I always desired to see Turin's story on the big screen. I know it would be successful for reasons that have already been stated.

As for the tale of Beren and Luthien, it could make a great movie, but as much as I hate to say this, I have a feeling that non-readers would think the story as another Romeo and Juliet rip-off....

[piosenniel]

I would love to see an anime, miniseries version of the Silmarillion done by Production I.G. - the people who did Blood: The Last Vampire, Ghost in the Shell, and Jin-Roh: the Wolf Brigade.

I think it could be well done . . . given enough financial resources, of course.

[CSteefel]

I think the basic problem with a film based on The Silmarillion is that the text as it reads is largely historical--the human drama shows up here and there, but is not fleshed out the way it is in the Lord of the Rings. The exception is the Turin story, and to some extent the Tuor story. I am afraid that the film would be like the beginning of LOtR, with narration used to convey the history that needs to be presented.

So the problem would be to draw a human story out of the whole thing, using the Silmarillion as the historical backdrop.

Well, I still like the idea of a film about Arnor. Guess I will start work on the script...

[mormegil]

While the story of Turin may work it would be fairly difficult to actually make it a PG-13 which, I assume, would be a requirement as it was for the LotR. The story is more graphic and more disturbing, what with the incest and all .

But the Sil as a whole or in part is not likely to ever be a 'successful' film, as I've spoken before because of the simple fact that it cannot possibly draw in the same fan base as did LotR. CSt spoke on the historical aspect which is very true and thusly it's not nearly as cohesive a story as the LotR and most segments. you pick are either too long or too short. Also while most, if not all of us, enjoy both he LotR and the Silm there are a lot of LotR fans that have never even read or intend to read the Silm I think this would carry over into the movie. There simply wouldn't be enough interest to make it profitable.

But if I'm ever independently wealthy I will buy the rights and make the movie myself, not for a profit, but for the enjoyment of it all