Riddles in the Downs

[Rumil]

Cool!

Nice riddle Urwen!

I'll get my thinking cap on for the next one

[Rumil]

Evening all,

A quick one for the next riddle, shouldn't be over-taxing!

Who am I and what is my name?
A chap had the same,
long long ago.

Who am I and what is my name?
I played the great game,
and did I win? No!

Who am I and what is my name?
Despite my great fame,
The first you can't know.

[The Might]

I'll go with a more exotic answer, mayber it will pay off, my answer is Fastred, a rider of Rohan.

Who am I and what is my name? - Fastred
A chap had the same, - there had been another Fastred
long long ago. - three hundred years

Who am I and what is my name?
I played the great game, - guess the great game is supposed to be life?!
and did I win? No! - was killed at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields

Who am I and what is my name?
Despite my great fame, - his name was remembered in song as said in LotR
The first you can't know. - since the first Fastred died in battle in Gondor

[Rumil]

Hi Miggy,

Interesting one! Fairly close, but not the one I was thinking of

The 'first' refers to the question 'who am I?'

Guess On!

[The Might]

Ah, the first refers to the person asking... ok in that case let me see what I can find.

Ok, let's see... maybe Óin

Who am I and what is my name? - Óin
A chap had the same, - Óin, King of Durin's Folk
long long ago. - 500 years

Who am I and what is my name?
I played the great game, - one could see the "game" as the Dwarves' constant attempt to recapture Moria
and did I win? No! - killed by the Watcher in the Water

Who am I and what is my name?
Despite my great fame, - he was after all part of Thorin's company
The first you can't know. - because all information had been lost and his story was only recorded in the Book of Mazarbul

[Nerwen]

I'm going to guess it's... not Óin.

The thing is, Rumil, taken really broadly this riddle could refer to just about anyone in Middle-earth. (Can you truly know who someone is? etc.)

A hint would be nice.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey, I think it's not that unspecific. Or at least with the "the first you can't know" - that makes me think of, for example, Tom Bombadil. Although this one would not make sense for different reasons (like who would be the other Tom "long ago", of course you have e.g. Tom the Troll, but he was not "long ago" unless you think of Bombadil as the Bombadil in LotR, at that particular moment, in that case Bilbo's journey could be perceived as "long ago", but in the context...). I think this one actually need not be that unspecific, one just needs to think... It will be Tom, Ungoliant, something like that

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I think this one actually need not be that unspecific, one just needs to think... It will be Tom, Ungoliant, something like that

Ah yes, as we all know Ungoliant was named after her remote ancestor, Ungoliant the First.

Seriously, I expect you're right.

[Rumil]

Hi All,

so, lets see, who do we have..

Miggy - Oin - nope, close, but no cigar (that doesn't mean its a dwarf by the way, just that the method was [almost] valid).

Nerwen, indeed, 'Who am I, alone and nameless?' I know what you mean but when you figure this one out you'll see why the question 'who am I?' is especially tricky.

Legate, Nerwen, er... no, defintely not Ungoliant ;-) , nor Tom,

I really thought this one would be cracked within a couple of posts,

Guess On!

[Pitchwife]

Hmmm... A lot of people had recycled names (kings and stewards of Gondor, heirs of Isildur, kings of Númenor...), but here's my guess:
Glorfindel (of Rivendell)
a chap had the same [scil. name] = Glorfindel of Gondolin, First age
I played the great game = Balrog-wrestling?
and did I win? No! - Well, in a way he did, but he died in the process, so maybe not exactly a win...
despite my great fame - Glorfindel of G. was a legend, of course, and Glorfindel of R. made the WitchKing take to his heels twice, which has to count for something
the first [scil. Who am I?] you can't know - maybe referring to the uncertainty whether the two were canonically the same person?
Doesn't seem to fit too well, all in all, but it's worth a try.

[The Might]

Okay, the only thing I can think of is Gollum/Smeagol:

Who am I and what is my name? - problems with the split personality and thus also the name
A chap had the same, - thinking back to the time he was Smeagol, thinking of this as another person
long long ago. - had been quite some time

Who am I and what is my name?
I played the great game, - this fits nicely here with the riddle-game played against Bilbo, it is described as ancient and powerful or something similar
and did I win? No! - he didn't

Who am I and what is my name?
Despite my great fame, - he would become quite famous through the stories about the War of the Ring and had been known to many before
The first you can't know. - few knew his initial identity as a hobbit

Well, I can't think of anything else right now, so hopefully I'm right this time.

[Rumil]

Hi Pitchwife,

Close, but no!

Might- nice twist, but nope!

Carry On....

[Nerwen]

Okay... what about Gildor Inglorion, then?

Who am I and what is my name?
A chap had the same,
long long ago. –There was a Gildor in the First Age, one of Barahir's men.

Who am I and what is my name?
I played the great game,
and did I win? No! –Not sure what this would mean. Lost his friendly verbal fencing-match with Frodo and ended up giving him a straight answer? Played no real role in winning the war?

Who am I and what is my name?
Despite my great fame,
The first you can't know. –Literally, as his origin remains a mystery.

[Loslote]

Boromir?

Who am I and what is my name?
A chap had the same,
long long ago. - There was a Boromir before.

Who am I and what is my name?
I played the great game,
and did I win? No! - He vied for control of the One Ring.

Who am I and what is my name?
Despite my great fame, - He was famous in Gondor as the Steward's Son as well as for his own deeds
The first you can't know. - Boromir is a very confusing character, what with the whole "going crazy and demanding the Ring" episode.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh crap, no! Now it occured to me! Is it Gothmog?

Who am I and what is my name?
A chap had the same, - Gothmog the Balrog
long long ago. - First Age

Who am I and what is my name?
I played the great game, - the War of the Ring or the Battle at Pelennor Fields
and did I win? No! - of course not

Who am I and what is my name?
Despite my great fame,
The first you can't know. - Gothmog is Gothmog, nobody knows what exactly he is, whether Man, Orc, Troll, Nazgul or something completely different.

[Rumil]

And we have a winner!!

Unlucky Nerwen and Loslote,

Well done Legate!!!

Hope I've not been too cheeky with this one, everyone came up with great ideas. I guess if I'd asked 'What am I' it would have been far too easy .

Oh, and the 'great fame' was slightly tongue-in-cheek,

All Yours Legate

[The Might]

Nice riddle, now it all makes sense.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh my, now I have to come up with one! Okay, give me a minute

...let's see. I don't feel exactly at the peak of my creativity right now, but hope you will at least enjoy riddling Here it goes:

Before the Black King made his move
after the White Queen's done her due
our Rook is threatened, gone our Knight
and it is White against the White
Now it's my turn, with no delay
I will just move, then I will say,
me, lonely Pawn, the tale of loss.
So many of the other Pawns
have taken our Knight en passant
I thought our figures are all gone...

But I see King, now moves a Knight -
will it be White against the White?

Well, good riddling...

[Mnemosyne]

So this is just an extension of a comparison that's already been done in canon, but let me see...

Before the Black King made his move pre-Siege of Gondor
after the White Queen's done her due Um? Possibly Galadriel's awesome advice-giving?
our Rook is threatened, gone our Knight Minas Tirith (the castle) is about to go under siege, but Faramir is out.
and it is White against the White Gandalf and Denethor giving each other the staredown
Now it's my turn, with no delay
I will just move, then I will say,
me, lonely Pawn, the tale of loss. *huggles a helpless-feeling Pippin*
So many of the other Pawns
have taken our Knight en passant
I thought our figures are all gone... Faramir brought news of Frodo and Sam, whom Pippin hadn't heard of in forever.

But I see King, now moves a Knight -
will it be White against the White? Post-siege? Pippin does call the arrival of Aragorn instead of those pesky corsairs. At any rate "white against white" could refer to the possible internal power struggle that the King's arrival would necessitate.

Not perfect, but not bad for a first guess.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Definitely not bad for first guess, that's for sure! However, as you said, not perfect The correct answer is somewhat more "coherent", so to speak, things fitting much more smoothly (if you get the right answer, you'd be able to verify it by very easily identifying every single figure/event in the riddle).

But clearly, in any case, opposite to the obvious in-book parallel, the "Pawn" here is not Pippin.

[Mnemosyne]

I figured. Your riddles are rarely that easy.

[The Might]

I'm somewhat jealous that I can't come up with this kind of stuff.
I didn't even know what en passant means before this. Thanks, Wikipedia!

Before the Black King made his move - I agree this is Sauron attacking Gondor
after the White Queen's done her due - Galadriel and the Fellowship
our Rook is threatened, gone our Knight - the Rook is the Hornburg, the Knight is Eomer
and it is White against the White - Gandalf and Saruman the White
Now it's my turn, with no delay - Theoden speaking in my opinion
I will just move, then I will say, - move to the Hornburg
me, lonely Pawn, the tale of loss. - felt like a pawn after being used by Saruman, tale of loss for losing Theodred
So many of the other Pawns - pawns like Grima or Edoras guards obeying orders blindly
have taken our Knight en passant - forced Eomer to leave with his eored
I thought our figures are all gone... - little hope indeed

But I see King, now moves a Knight - Aragorn and Eomer returning
will it be White against the White? - thinking about the duel to come between Gandalf and Saruman after the battle before riding to Isengard

Sounds ok I guess...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nay, nay, sorry. Sounds nice, but calling Théoden a pawn? And there are still some unclarities, for example especially the part around the "tale of loss" would not really fit very smoothly, would it?

But good attempts, very nice attempts, I like them But still waiting for the correct answer - it really fits perfectly once you get it (with correct and clear chronology of the account provided by the "Pawn" and all. Also a hint - figures removed the board do not return, so we have two different Knights in the beginning and in the end).

[Rumil]

Hmm, hoom etc.

Not such an easy one Legate....


Maybe this is the answer, probably not! Still eliminates a possibility even so.

Before the Black King made his move --- before Siege of Gondor
after the White Queen's done her due --- Galadriel, Lothlorien
our Rook is threatened, gone our Knight --- Helm's Deep, Theodred dead
and it is White against the White --- White Hand v White Horse

Now it's my turn, with no delay --- Ceorl
I will just move, then I will say, --- a horseman riding back towards them
me, lonely Pawn, the tale of loss. --- of the Fords of the Isen
So many of the other Pawns --- Orcs, Halforcs Dunlendings and Goblin Men
have taken our Knight en passant --- what has become of Erkenbrand none seem to know
I thought our figures are all gone... --- the rest are scattered

But I see King, now moves a Knight - --- Theoden, Gandalf rides off
will it be White against the White? --- Gandalf v Saruman?

I don't think a pawn can't take a knight en passant? Indeed Erkenbrand survived to save the day. OK I'm stretching this one huh?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nah, but you are right! It's Ceorl, our Pawn who's telling the story, and just for the sake of clarity, the Knight who has been "taken en passant" is Théodred (he is referred to both in the first and the second part, where Ceorl recounts once again what has happened; the Knight in the end can be anything, from Éomer to a symbolic expression of the Rohirrim host riding to Helm's Deep). Of course the White against the White refers to Gandalf and Saruman, in the first part, you can even interpretate it just in the matter of colors yet, i.e. the divided court of Rohan. But anyway, the main point was to figure out the situation and determine that it's Ceorl who is talking here. So, your turn, Rumil!

[The Might]

Nice one, Rumil! As usual, it does make sense once the answer has been found.

[Rumil]

Ah, I'm pleasantly surprised!

Nice one Legate, was thinking Minas Tirith, Helm's Deep etc etc, even tried to get the Death of Boromir to fit somehow.

I mistakenly thought that all knights had to be different, from your earlier post, thus Erkenbrand, glad to see Theodred gets re-used, as it makes more sense that way.

Will have a go at the next one soon,

Cheers,

R

[Urwen]

My go:


My father stood tall,
but he did fall

My land and my right I tried to protect
but I did fail
with my cousin hungry for power
and enemy at our tail

I still stand tall
To death I make my way
Yet there's hope left for us
And that's what I have to say

[Mnemosyne]

Tar-Miriel?

[Urwen]

YES! It's Tar-Miriel who speaks.My favourite character! Your turn

[Mnemosyne]

Out of time, out of place,
Gold my hair and green my face.

Maiden-like I fenced me in;
He loved me and I loved him.

Though we quarreled by and by,
For my sake he left to die.

My guards left me, fair and fresh;
They arrived and fouled my flesh.

When at last we met again,
Both our selves all scarred with pain,

To my horror I could see
He no more belonged to me.

He left me under another--
Where shall I find such a lover?

[Urwen]

Yavanna?
My guards-Ents
They arrived and fouled my flesh-Morgoth and Ungoliant arrived and sucked out two Trees

[Mnemosyne]

Nope.

[Urwen]

Out of time, out of place,-Elves,children of Eru
Gold my hair and green my face.-Elves loved flowers,earth and sun

Maiden-like I fenced me in;-indeed;and her singing was beautiful
He loved me and I loved him.-it is obvious

Though we quarreled by and by,-about freedom
For my sake he left to die.-but he didn't know.One cannot possibly know he'll jump from ship

My guards left me, fair and fresh;-Lorien elves
They arrived and fouled my flesh.-as Legolas said about Orcs

When at last we met again,-Probably in Aman
Both our selves all scarred with pain,-sort of

To my horror I could see
He no more belonged to me.-they grew estranged due to long separation

He left me under another--another star
Where shall I find such a lover?-they were lovers

So is the answer....Nimrodel the elf-maid

[Mnemosyne]

Close, but no cigar. As you yourself stated, there was no way anyone could have known Amroth would have jumped ship when he and Nimrodel were separated.

Plus Nimrodel doesn't have a green face.

[Urwen]

Maybe Fimbrethil,then

[Mnemosyne]

Nor her neither.

[Urwen]

Maybe a hint?

[Mnemosyne]

Good heavens! The riddle's been up only a day, and you're the only person who's responded so far!

Give it at least a week, and let some other people think it over. This riddle is not supposed to be easy!

[satansaloser2005]

Wow. That's a good one.

I'd feel very out of place answering this, seeing as I wouldn't be able to make a very creative riddle in response, but I just have to say how happy this makes me. 'Cause it really, really does. (Mostly that I got it at all, to be honest.) Good fortune to all of you trying to figure it out!


P.S. Mnemo, you sultry minx.