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Old 10-11-2001, 07:38 PM   #1
lindil
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After Aiwendil's and Jallanite's extensive work on ther Fall of Gondolin paused somewhat by the balrog question [forget wether they have wings or not!!!], and possibly by my less than encouragoing comment [for which i seriously apologize, if they have had any negating effect], and of course by the removal of the downs to new e-space, I hope now is a good time to begin rallying forces, hopefully all members of the team will feel free to sound off:
What would you like to see happen?
What would you like to contribute?
Can we finish discussion and a vote on the principles nod the work?

I think it would be good to have work progress on 1 or more smaller projects in addition to larger and exceedingly complex projects such as the fall of Gondolin.

I have been a rather absent wight these lastr few months but I would like to gather the edits already made on the FoG and see what we have and possibly fill in the gap between Tuor's arrival and the Battle that remains unedited.


lindil

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]
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Old 10-12-2001, 01:16 PM   #2
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H-I is still here, unable, alas to produce something of himself (for now at least) but ready to [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] read and criticise all the stuff appearing by and by

still, remaining respectfully yours
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Old 10-14-2001, 10:13 AM   #3
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Well I'm still here as well, though alas unable to contribute very much in the past couple of weeks. As for how to proceed now, we still have a few issues to resolve with regard to the Fall of Gondolin:

1. A couple of name questions, most importantly the seven names of Gondolin;
2. Some questions of canon, such as: 'was the Way of Escape permanently closed before the battle?';
3. The mechanical dragon question;
4. Most problematically, the Balrog question.

Perhaps we can have some discussion of these simultaneously with the more technical textual discussions? That would allow, I think, for some members without the time or desire to engage in the more technical work to nevertheless contribute.

A question for jallanite: are you currently working on the section between Tuor's arrival and the battle? If not, I would be happy to take that section, though the free time in which I might be able to do it will be a little more limited than in the past.

Lindil: I like the idea of reviving the old 'Principles' thread for a vote.
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Old 12-02-2001, 04:02 AM   #4
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Well I have been suitably chastised for my lack of follow through by having my all important member rating dropped a notch [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

OK I will try and review the FoG as it stands now and fill in the missing gaps. Prayers/observation/comments/alternate versions are most happily accepted.

I think a good first course of action will be to put up what has been done so far in order .

hopefully something worth posting will be up w/in a week.

- the unworthy
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Old 12-28-2001, 10:20 PM   #5
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Aiwendil listed the following as the main items of the fall of gondolin in need of resolution:


1. A couple of name questions, most importantly the seven names of Gondolin;
A couple of options seem attractive:

A> post the query to Elfling purely as an historical question with NO reference to any larger revision project other than updating the BoLT names.
B>Ask Cian and any others perhaps Helge F. and factor in there answers and then have an in house vote, for thos ewilling to have an opinion on arcane linguistic matters.
C> leave it up to jallanite and Aiwendil and any others who feel competent to vote on it and skip any out side opinions.


2. Some questions of canon, such as: 'was the Way of Escape permanently
closed before the battle?';
a simple poll in the TftE forum asking people to review the evidence [post it in the poll at the head]
3. The mechanical dragon question;
def. a poll
4. Most problematically, the Balrog question.
deal w/ the dragons first and then revisit. A non-binding downs wide poll would be interesting, and then perhaps a TftE/members only poll.

I am willing to email all members, Cian, and such and let them know that decisions are in the works.
Perhaps a 2 week period for the poll to expire is enough once if this course is agreed upon.

lindil
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Old 12-29-2001, 11:50 AM   #6
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On the several points we're considering:

1. I'm not sure sending the whole list of name changes to Elfling is a great idea; I don't know if anyone here is on the list, but I am, and it's been a bit busy of late, with a lot of new members apparently attracted by the glimpses of Elvish in the movie. We might get some worthwhile comments, though. I'm all for sending it privately to whomever might be knowledgeable enough to help. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I'm certainly no expert; it might be unwise to rely on our judgement alone.

But the question of the names of Gondolin is not one easily answered, with or without a good understanding of Elvish etymology. The problem is essentially this: we have about nine names, each equally valid, for a city that must have seven names. Which do we drop? I'd be interested to see other people's comments on this discussion, as (I think) it has so far only been touched by Jallanite and me. Perhaps I'll start another thread devoted to it.

2. A poll is a good idea. I'd suggest that we clearly lay out all the evidence for both sides, though, along with the poll. And perhaps whichever option wins should then need a written justification according to our principles - this is all to prevent personal preference and aesthetics from playing a larger role than it should.

3. Agreed.

4. Agreed once again.
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Old 12-30-2001, 10:46 AM   #7
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aiwendil- I did not mean to suggest burdening Elfling w/ the complete list of FoG name changes, but the 7 names of Gondolin and perhaps rog and Legolas, and to explain that these were part of a larger project [ but not tipping our hand to revising the the whole story or indeed the Silmarillion]. Perhaps since I recall in an intro to the Elfling forum that they more experienced like to see that theose asking for help have tried to figure out what they are asking what you andJallanite did on the 7 names and the legolas / rog posts.

So in all :
  • Intro to an account of our 'project' revising the names in the Fall of Gondoilin from BoLT2 asking for help w/ the
  • 7 /9 names of gondolin ---work to date
  • Rog and legolas work and comments to date
  • the 'questionable elvish' and uncertain [?] changes for FoG

So if this is agreeable if you wish to compose/submit it, since you are already a member [I was for a bit I got way more email than i had time for ], great , otherwise I can rejoin and post something.

I will post notices to all folks on the roster that polls are soon to be unveiled in the TftE forum and that this forum/project is stirring from slumber.But it will take me a couple of days.

[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: lindil ]

[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: lindil ]
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Old 01-01-2002, 11:06 AM   #8
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I'd be happy to send the names and the ideas we've had to Elfling. I'll post the feedback as soon as I've got it.
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Old 01-01-2002, 01:13 PM   #9
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For Aiwendil-Go for it.

For everyone else, I am slowly sending out emails togive everyone the heads up folks get as involved as they wish. we need to parse the previous posts regarding the Way of escape and transfer that which is relevant to the TftE forum in a poll format. I hope to get it this evening, the same needs to be done w/ the dragons [ and later the Balrog qurestion] if anyone can start on that one.
We can await results from elfling and co. re: the 7 names of Gondolin.

lindil
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Old 01-03-2002, 08:41 PM   #10
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I'll start gathering the information on mechanical dragons as soon as I can. Perhaps we should have some clarification on the format of the poll first; I assume we'll post a summary of the relevant information, with all the main points in favor of each side. Should we then formulate just two choices for the poll (i.e. 'yes mech. dragons' or 'no mech. dragons')? Or should there be more choices, like: keep them completely, eliminate them completely, change them to real dragons but keep the distinctions between the various types, etc.?

Regarding elfling: I've sent our list of possible name changes twice, but I've had no responses. It's been overlooked, I imagine, in the torrent of newbies in the wake of the movie. Lindil, if you know some people knowledgeable in Elvish linguistics, perhaps you should send it to them. I'll wait until things have died down a bit on elfling and resubmit it, but who knows how long that'll be. . .
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Old 01-06-2002, 01:35 PM   #11
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hi this my first time doing this so I don't know what to do here! someone email me directions. my email address is sunnyskys3200@yahoo.com [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]
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