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Old 11-09-2008, 11:50 AM   #1
Feanor of the Peredhil
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Werewolf LIII: The Republic

A rider swept into the village one night carrying a package: he was directed to the home of the village scholar. He stayed only briefly, and then wasn’t seen again. The scholar spent the following days in seclusion, pouring over the parchments given to him, studying the plague of werewolves upon the world.

One day, about a week later, the scholar stepped forth from his home and called a town meeting.

“I know why people keep misdiagnosing lupine symptoms!” he cried to the people.

“Why?” they asked.

“It’s because the uneducated rabble are allowed a popular vote and we all know that they oughtn’t to be allowed to make such significant decisions when they’re merely uninformed blockheads!” he responded at full volume.

The people were rather offended. “Why shouldn’t we kill you for what you’ve just said?” they asked.

“Because I have a solution!” he cried.

“And that is?” asked a villager, eyebrow raised.

“Everybody will still get a vote,” he assured, to people’s relief, “but they will vote for the best and the brightest to represent their interests.”

His statement was met with blank stares.

He tried again. “The next time we have a problem with werewolves, witches, demons, vampires, or other unsavory sorts, rather than each villager picking who he wants to kill, each villager should choose somebody they believe to represent their best interests, and then the representatives chosen will put their smarter-than-average heads together and get us out of the mess.”

The villagers began to nod, some sooner than others, comprehending. One villager spoke up. “So instead of voting on issues, we vote on people to solve our issues for us?”

“Exactly! You delegate responsibility! It will simplify everything!” cried the scholar.

The village was dubious, but he was a scholar, and everybody knows that scholars are always right. Thusly the democratic village evolved into a wee bit of a republic overnight.

---

Players Amongst the Living:

Aganzir
Boromir88
Brinniel
Diamond18
Eönwë
Gil-Galad
Greenie
Gwathagor
Ilya
Legate
Lommy
Kath
McCaber
mormegil
Nerwen
Nogrod
Rune
Sally
Shasta
The Ka
the phantom


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Old 11-10-2008, 09:56 PM   #2
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Starting the Festivities

With great communities based on semi-democratic decision making comes great responsibility and with great responsibility comes much paperwork describing every single way you take advantage of your position of power up to and including the number of sheets of paper you crumple in frustration while trying to compose a decent set of laws, arguments, or even simply empty statements.

I, President Fea, have crumpled two sheets thus far, and emptied two quills of ink.

You, the village, are angry. I understand this.

I do not write this to anger you more. I write this in order to withhold a transparent honest government.

My people, we as a village have a problem. Well, several, in fact.

One is that I’ve secretly been practicing a bit of insider trading with the likes of Mithalwen and Rikae which is why they are rather more well off than you filthy lot-

-But more importantly! We have wolves in our midst!

Wolves? Yes, wolves. Werewolves, and they mean us great harm.

What do I mean insider trading?

Trade of information, nothing more, I assure you it has nothing to do with you, really, nothing at all.

No, it did not relate to the taxes I’ve recently imposed upon you even though-

Dear heavens above, what honest village reporter discovered these facts?

Well, I suppose it is indeed best to be clear about-

PUT DOWN THAT PITCHFORK!

No, the werewolf situation and the corrupt government have nothing at all in common I assure you!

Rikae, look out behind you, it’s a villager. I know you can’t hear him, he speaks softly, but he carries a big stick and-

YOU UNEDUCATED RABBLE KILLED MY BUSINESS ASSOCIATE (and by ‘business associate’ of course I mean ‘fellow politician whose relationship with me and the village treasury is completely above board’)—

Mith, darling, careful, that’s a noose-

What ever happened to a fair trial by a jury of my peers?

What exactly, might I ask do you intend to do with your elected Representatives assassinated by the likes of yourselves, hm?

YOU NEED ME!

Do not step any closer or you will regret it, young man!

You intend to elect new Representatives every day as a means to avoid the stagnation of society as it occurs when one has been in power for far too long? Outlandish!

Step away from me and put down that knife!

I said back, rabble!

No!

Why you ungrateful little b—

---

Hello Mith. How are you, Rikae? I’d have sworn I just saw you die at the hands of the angry people—

Oh.



---


The Dead:

Fea
Mith
Rikae

The Living:

Aganzir
Boromir88
Brinniel
Diamond18
Eönwë
Gil-Galad
Greenie
Gwathagor
Ilya
Legate
Lommy
Kath
McCaber
mormegil
Nerwen
Nogrod
Rune
Sally
Shasta
The Ka
the phantom
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:02 PM   #3
Shastanis Althreduin
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Look, proof there's an afterlife! For dirty politicians and their "business associates", anyway. Freedom!
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:04 PM   #4
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So if I'm reading that correctly, we killed our leaders.

Hmm... I'd say we're hardly "innocent" villagers at this point. It seems almost unfair to try and lynch Werewolves now. I mean... thus far we're the only ones who've done any killing.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:07 PM   #5
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Ah, Shasta! I hope you've kept intact your ability to be right most of the time. It could be quite handy in the next few days.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:10 PM   #6
Shastanis Althreduin
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Just call me Cassandra. Though that's changing thanks to Brinniel.

...And phantom takes an early post count lead. Surprise!
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:15 PM   #7
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As far as the filibuster goes, I would say that for now it would be a good idea to leave our options open.

In other words, don't filibuster now just for laughs, because you may wish later that you had saved it for a worthy cause.

And I'm certainly not going to vote against having a filibuster, for the more options Werewolves have available to them the more chances we'll have of spotting them. And then there's the argument for drama and entertainment- it would be quite fun to see a WW attempt to save another with a lengthy filibuster. It would be quite memorable.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Just call me Cassandra.
Seriously?
Quote:
...And phantom takes an early post count lead.
Har har. But I'm sure I'll be passed during the morning hours (sleep plus work).
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:22 PM   #9
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Eye

I bet if we made a list of suspects right now, before anyone has even started talking, we'd be just as accurate as we would be at sundown.

Encouraging thought, yes?

But I'm extremely excited about the whole vote-for-reps thing. There are so many possibilities! Even upon death (if I am so unfortunate) I will be following the village closely from beyond.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
And I'm certainly not going to vote against having a filibuster, for the more options Werewolves have available to them the more chances we'll have of spotting them.
And the easier time they'll have of eating the village. I don't see the reason behind this at all, Phantom.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:24 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Phantom
I bet if we made a list of suspects right now, before anyone has even started talking, we'd be just as accurate as we would be at sundown.

Encouraging thought, yes?
More like pessimistic thought, but sadly you're probably correct.
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:29 PM   #12
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Anyone have theories on the WW rep-voting behavior?

Give their power to one Wolf? Possible, but not the best option.

Ideally they'd each want to be a rep. But it is likely that they would wish to refrain from outright campaigning for voting power, as it might arouse suspicion. It would be safer to appear sane and reasonable and hope to garner at least one single vote from an innocent. Then if another WW tacks on his vote- presto! Instant rep!

So if each WW gets one rep-vote, they could circle vote for each other and hold eight votes in their paws. This would certainly be enough power to control the lynch.

But naturally there are less straighforward ways to operate...
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
And the easier time they'll have of eating the village. I don't see the reason behind this at all, Phantom.
What I mean is, we leave the option open and then dare them to try it.

I agree that the filibuster is more likely to work to their advantage seeing as they are the only villagers with concrete knowledge at this point. Besides the Seer, but I doubt the Seer would risk a filibuster so early. Because the use of a filibuster would indicate a stronger than average read on guilt/innocence.

I would be unlikely to use a filibuster to trade one life for another because frankly I don't feel strongly enough about anyone. Why would you use a filibuster unless you know something? Which points to WWs and the Seer of course.

Though later in the game perhaps an Ordo will get a strong read on someone. But there will always be the nagging doubt, which might perhaps be strong enough to discourage someone from taking such strong action, and spending so much time on it.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:44 PM   #14
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Here's a question- who gets lynched if there are no reps to vote on the lynching?

If each person were to grant their voting power to the person above them on the list, no one would gain two votes. Thus there would be no voters for the second half. What would happen then? Random lynch? Nothing?
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:45 PM   #15
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Can somebody, *looks at the phantom* fill me in on exactly what the purpose of the fillibuster is? I'm not sure I understand the concept fully. I mean I get it in RL but I'm trying to make sense of it in our arena.

Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps we should try to come to some consensus on how many representatives we would like to have. Would it be best to spread it around...I think the maximum would be 10 at this stage. Or would we like to keep it a little bit smaller around 4 or 5. I think 2 or 3 would be rather foolish at this stage and would limit some of the information we could gather later on when things become a bit clearer.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:47 PM   #16
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Here's a question- who gets lynched if there are no reps to vote on the lynching?

If each person were to grant their voting power to the person above them on the list, no one would gain two votes. Thus there would be no voters for the second half. What would happen then? Random lynch? Nothing?
My guess is we would have no representatives and therefore no votes on who would be lynched, ergo no lynch. I don't see that there would be any usefulness in that so why would you bring it up? It only seems to benefit the wolves.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morm
Can somebody, *looks at the phantom* fill me in on exactly what the purpose of the fillibuster is?
All right.

Let's say that I strongly suspect you are the Seer, and that Shasta is a WW.

Shasta has just pulled ahead in the voting with one hour left, but two reps still have to vote, and one of them is leaning towards voting for you.

And so in order to save you and ensure Shasta's demise, I leap in and declare a filibuster, and proceed to post every two minutes on a specific topic until the deadline arrives.

By doing this I block that other rep from voting for you and Shasta is lynched instead.

Sound good?
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom
If each person were to grant their voting power to the person above them on the list, no one would gain two votes. Thus there would be no voters for the second half. What would happen then? Random lynch? Nothing?
Interesting question. I would have to guess nothing would happen, much like in a state senate.

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Old 11-10-2008, 10:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morm
My guess is we would have no representatives and therefore no votes on who would be lynched, ergo no lynch. I don't see that there would be any usefulness in that so why would you bring it up?
I'm just curious. We've never had this sort of village before, so I would just like to know the possibilities, no matter if they're useless or unlikely to occur.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morm
Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps we should try to come to some consensus on how many representatives we would like to have. Would it be best to spread it around...I think the maximum would be 10 at this stage. Or would we like to keep it a little bit smaller around 4 or 5. I think 2 or 3 would be rather foolish at this stage and would limit some of the information we could gather later on when things become a bit clearer.
I think it's reasonable to have the number of reps proportional to the number of players. 1/3 of us would be 7 reps. Or 1/4 would be 5 or 6 reps. I don't think we should have any more or any less than that. Especially less...with less reps I think there is more room for error, particularly if one of those reps turned out to be a wolf. We should be careful not to spread the votes out too much. I know in previous Days half the village has received votes before. Of course those were votes to lynch, so the voting patterns here might turn out differently.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morm
Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps we should try to come to some consensus on how many representatives we would like to have.
Seriously? Must we have a plan?

I figured we would simply let the chips fall where they may. Perhaps we'll end up with seven reps with two votes each, or maybe three reps with five votes each. Whatever. Why not just wing it?
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:02 PM   #22
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It all depends on how much weight we want the reps to have. A rep with 4 votes behind him/her apparently has more power than a rep with only two. So it's the Virginia plan versus the New Jersey plan all over again. If we decide consciously we want to have a smaller number of reps, we also better make sure we give them the same amount of weight, but then I'm a NJ girl from way back. Or, you know, wing it. That too.

As to the filibuster, it seems like it would either be the seer's province, or someone suspected trying to save themselves during the final voting phase. Of course, it suits the wolves best so it seems like it would be a rare thing.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Why not just wing it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya
Or, you know, wing it.
I like you already, Ilya.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:09 PM   #24
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The more I think about it, the more I think we should not have any set target for number of reps. I mean, is that really the sort of government we want to set up here? Regulations, rules, must do this, must do that.... How about a little freedom?

Next thing you know we'll be ordering Gwath to give up his guns.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:15 PM   #25
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Thank you tp for explaining that, it makes a lot of sense now. As far as having a plan, no we don't need one, but some of us like one. I would like some structure to our procedings.

I think, at least on Day 1, I am going to select somebody I have a history with and generally trust. There are sufficient candidates here that would meet my criteria of being somebody I trust and somebody who I think is accurate and critical. Boro, Diamond, Nog and tp would probably top that list. I fear that when I wake up int he morning I will be so innundated with posts I will have some difficulty catching up in this large of a village.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morm
Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps we should try to come to some consensus on how many representatives we would like to have.
Must you use that word? I recall the words of a famous politician-

"Consensus is the absence of leadership".

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Old 11-10-2008, 11:16 PM   #27
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The more I think about it, the more I think we should not have any set target for number of reps. I mean, is that really the sort of government we want to set up here? Regulations, rules, must do this, must do that.... How about a little freedom?

Next thing you know we'll be ordering Gwath to give up his guns.
How about freedom within defined limits?
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:18 PM   #28
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I fear that when I wake up int he morning I will be so innundated with posts I will have some difficulty catching up in this large of a village.
Indeed. Only when I wake up I won't really have time to post much, so my catching up will need to be done more around noon. So I'll be reading 11 hours or so worth of gabbing. It'll take me all afternoon.

Not that I can complain. I'm hardly making things easy on others. But hey- I didn't join this village to cover my mouth and look around.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:20 PM   #29
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Must you use that word? I recall the words of a famous politician-

"Consensus is the absence of leadership".

Says the loudmouth with over HALF the posts on the thread so far.



Just stopping by to check in. (Had a lovely nap, in case you're interested.) I think I'll probably vote for a rep today that I've played with a lot and that I trust to make a fairly good Day One lynch vote guess. (Good gravy, I think I just parroted Morm and didn't realize it. Random.) Today I think all heck is going to break loose, but after the first couple days I think we should pick out maybe six or eight players (though not necessarily the same number each day....don't want to be too rigid in our proceedings, after all) and each person can, say, put up a list of who they suspect and who they'd like to see as a rep, and we can go from there?


EDIT: x'd with Morm and even more Phantom-y goodness.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:21 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by morm
How about freedom within defined limits?
That sounds fine for the rest of you. But I would like complete freedom. Does that sound fair? We'll make rules and enforce them unevenly.

Like the speed limit. Does it really make sense that an individual with poor eyesight, poor coordination, poor reaction time, and poor judgement is allowed to go the same maximum speed as me?

Let's not make the same mistakes in this village that have been made elsewhere.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:25 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by McCaber
How awesome is that? Very awesome.
Grrr... I was going to answer that question, but then you go and answer it before giving me the chance. You're really killing this conversation.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:29 PM   #32
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I've got to say morm, I feel rather threatened by your avatar. Is it really appropriate to have a gun-toting monkey at a polling place? It might, how should I say this... influence people to see your side of things.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:31 PM   #33
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Next thing you know we'll be ordering Gwath to give up his guns.
Gwath has guns? We can have weapons? I like this game so much better now.

Honestly I'm fine with letting this round happen as free-flowing democracy. None of us have any bearings right now. As the game goes on, though, it would be a good idea to have a method to empowering reps, which would mitigate a charismatic wolf from ruling the representatives.

Phantom, as long as you're in the room, the conversation will never die.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:31 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by the phantom
Grrr... I was going to answer that question, but then you go and answer it before giving me the chance. You're really killing this conversation.
Not killing, per se, but merely trying to reign it in. Someone's got to think of the Europeans here, you know.

I'm actually in favor of having around seven reps as a target number. As of right now, I have no idea who I will choose to represent me, though. I feel that's a choice I need to make without any hostile influences.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:32 PM   #35
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I've got to say morm, I feel rather threatened by your avatar. Is it really appropriate to have a gun-toting monkey at a polling place? It might, how should I say this... influence people to see your side of things.
What do you care, you're a ghost? If anything the gun-toting monkey should be afraid of you.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally
and each person can, say, put up a list of who they suspect and who they'd like to see as a rep, and we can go from there?
Now I can certainly agree with this. Lists of suspicion and trust are always good, as it keeps people from sliding by and going where the wind blows.

Not that we can have very good lists at this point on Day 1.

Oh well. I'll make one anyway.

Aganzir- She's a Werewolf, but I plan to help her win anyway.
Boromir88- An extremely terrifying Ordo.
Brinniel- Not a Werewolf. At least according to the odds.
Diamond18- Whatever I say she is, she'll be the opposite. You watch.
Eönwë- The herald of Manwe couldn't be a Werewolf. At least that's what he wants us to think.
Gil-Galad- Totally an Ordo. At least that's what my coin-flip said.
Greenie- I'd trust her as far as I can throw her. And she's pretty petite, so that's awfully far.
Gwathagor- The Seer! No, wait- that was another game.
Ilya- Has a very vowlish name. Is that suspicious?
Legate- He's going to kill us all.
Lommy- Harmless little penguin.
Kath- Big mean penguin! But still- a penguin.
McCaber- He's the Cobbler!
mormegil- Werewolf! But I like him anyway.
Nerwen- Has me totally confused. First she says she likes me, then she won't call...
Nogrod- He will soon clear things up for us. He's a smart one.
Rune- Very furry.
Sally- Will hunt the Wolves till her final breath!
Shasta- Will continue being right about Werewolves. This time because he is one, naturally.
The Ka- Not to be confused with A Ka. He is the one, and only.
the phantom- The secret Cobbler-Seer.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:45 PM   #37
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All right.

Let's say that I strongly suspect you are the Seer, and that Shasta is a WW.

Shasta has just pulled ahead in the voting with one hour left, but two reps still have to vote, and one of them is leaning towards voting for you.

And so in order to save you and ensure Shasta's demise, I leap in and declare a filibuster, and proceed to post every two minutes on a specific topic until the deadline arrives.

By doing this I block that other rep from voting for you and Shasta is lynched instead.

Sound good?
Pfft. I can see already where this village is heading, phantom.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya
which would mitigate a charismatic wolf from ruling the representatives.
Rats! That was my whole plan!
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCaber
I have no idea who I will choose to represent me, though. I feel that's a choice I need to make without any hostile influences.
Pick me, or you die!
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCaber
What do you care, you're a ghost? If anything the gun-toting monkey should be afraid of you.
Ah, I forgot! How silly of me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta
Pfft. I can see already where this village is heading, phantom.
I only used you as an example, Shasta, I promise!

Frankly I feel that I owe you at least a day worth of protection after seeing you being so right and no one believing you. You deserve some payback.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:51 PM   #39
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Aganzir- A scary Ordo.
Boromir88- Obviously a wolf.
Brinniel- Innocent as innocent could be!
Diamond18- see Brinniel.
Eönwë- A confused Ordo.
Gil-Galad- A zombie!....Ordo.
Greenie- A quiet Ordo.
Gwathagor- The Ranger!... oh no wait, that was another game.
Ilya- A newbie Wolf!
Legate- Voted "Second Most Likely To Filibuster". What that means is anyone's guess.
Lommy- See Brinniel.
Kath- See Brinniel.
McCaber- showed up! Obviously a Wolf.
mormegil- A misguided Ordo.
Nerwen- The Seer, obviously.
Nogrod- Voted "Third Most Likely To Filibuster."
Rune- The Cobbler, obviously. *grin*
Sally- See Brinniel.
Shasta- The Seer/Ranger/Hunter/Ghost/Governor/Gambler. Obviously.
The Ka- A sneaky Ordo.
the phantom- You have to ask?

++Phantom

(^ does not count; is not highlighted, nor is it time to vote for lynching. I hate having to explain jokes to make sure they're not taken seriously, it takes all the fun out.)
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
Pick me, or you die!
Ahem! *taps foot* Who's the resident psychic around here?
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV
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