The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Movies
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-09-2016, 01:45 PM   #1
Aaron
Haunting Spirit
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: England
Posts: 96
Aaron has just left Hobbiton.
If you could change ONE thing in The Hobbit triology

What would it be? Because, let's face it, the movies are an appalling mess, raised above mediocrity solely by the practiced hand of its amazing cast.

So, what would you change?
Me myself, I would cut out Azog entirely and focus instead on Bolg. Thorin is not an honorable hero, he loses his virtue as soon as he tastes power. It's a big theme in the story, the moral ambiguity, and Bolg is an important part of that - an Orc avenging his father, and Orcs in general wanting to avenge the Great Goblin. There was so much they could have done with the idea. But instead they played the story as Good vs. Evil, rather than the more complex moral tale Tolkien was telling.
__________________
Remember, stranger, passing by: As you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare thyself to follow me.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 01:49 PM   #2
Marwhini
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 144
Marwhini has just left Hobbiton.
The one thing I would change about The Hobbit movies?

That They were Green-lit to be produced by anyone involved with the original Jackson effort (which I also thought messed up). At least The Lord of the Rings was nearly tolerable.

MB
Marwhini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 07:39 PM   #3
Nerwen
Wisest of the Noldor
 
Nerwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,701
Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Send a message via Skype™ to Nerwen
I would have cut the mountain chase/factory sequence. Really doesn't make Smaug look like an effectual villain and muddles his perfectly good reasons for attacking Lake-town.

No, what am I saying? It would be like cutting out the Warbats!

By which I mean: these are weird films, and changing a single aspect won't fix that. I think they might as well be as over-the-top as they can be.

Re: Azog. Indeed, why not have his son in that role? What does Azog "have" over Bolg? Well, he "died" (or, originally, just died, without the quotes), and I guess it's the rule now that everyone has to think the bad guys are dead, so they can be shocked on learning otherwise. Drama, you know.
__________________
"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.
Nerwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 09:36 PM   #4
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,294
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Change one thing in the Hobbit trillogy? Easy. Don't make it a trilogy.

But seriously - I'm with Nerwen. I don't think one aspect would make much difference in a sea of nonsense.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 10:04 PM   #5
Zigûr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigûr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Perhaps if a single change of "appropriate amount of focus on Bilbo" was made, that might have a ripple effect of bringing a lot of other things into line. If the films concentrated on Bilbo as the protagonist there'd be less opportunity for a lot of the extraneous nonsense that I think formed the most objectionable content of the trilogy.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigûr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 11:59 PM   #6
Marwhini
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 144
Marwhini has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Change one thing in the Hobbit trillogy? Easy. Don't make it....

But seriously - I'm with Nerwen. I don't think one aspect would make much difference in a sea of nonsense.
Here... I fixed it.

But The Hobbit could very easily have been a Trilogy.

The Hobbit has nineteen chapters.

For a six hour Trilogy, that is an average of 20 minutes a chapter.

And that is without adding a single thing to the story.


MB
Marwhini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 02:16 AM   #7
Nerwen
Wisest of the Noldor
 
Nerwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,701
Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Send a message via Skype™ to Nerwen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marwhini View Post
Here... I fixed it.

But The Hobbit could very easily have been a Trilogy.

The Hobbit has nineteen chapters.

For a six hour Trilogy, that is an average of 20 minutes a chapter.

And that is without adding a single thing to the story.


MB
Hmmn. I don't see how this could be done without drawing out each section interminably. And wouldn't that require adding things anyway? "The Hobbit" (the book, I mean) generally goes into much less detail than "The Lord of the Rings"- compare the first part of "Fellowship", where Frodo et al are essentially retracing Bilbo's journey from the Shire to the Misty Mountains. This is partly due to the books being written for different audiences, and partly because more *happens* to Frodo's party over the same period.
__________________
"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.
Nerwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 08:02 AM   #8
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,294
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marwhini View Post
here... I fixed it.
:d

[seriously, what's wrong with this smiley? Why doesn't the picture show up? I keep typing in : D, and it just reverts to lowercase. ]
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2016, 05:09 AM   #9
Aaron
Haunting Spirit
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: England
Posts: 96
Aaron has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerwen View Post
I would have cut the mountain chase/factory sequence. Really doesn't make Smaug look like an effectual villain and muddles his perfectly good reasons for attacking Lake-town.

No, what am I saying? It would be like cutting out the Warbats!

By which I mean: these are weird films, and changing a single aspect won't fix that. I think they might as well be as over-the-top as they can be.

Re: Azog. Indeed, why not have his son in that role? What does Azog "have" over Bolg? Well, he "died" (or, originally, just died, without the quotes), and I guess it's the rule now that everyone has to think the bad guys are dead, so they can be shocked on learning otherwise. Drama, you know.
You are right about the chase segment. For whilst it was an entertaining visual spectacle, it rendered poor Smaug rather impotent.
Same with the Goblins, and their apparent inability to defend themselves as they are hewn down in their hundreds.

Had we seen the Dwarves slowly accumulate more and more wounds - some losing limbs, some being horribly scorched by Smaug, some just being jittery and terrified of having to fight again - it would have presented things in a different light.
But instead, we have absurd scenes where, if memory serves, Thorin and another Dwarf all but point and laugh at the prospect of taking on about a hundred Orcs singlehanded.

The heroes in the LOTR trilogy either had to connect themselves to a massive army, or else hide and hope to Hell someone didn't gut them like a fish. But for some reason, the movies turned into a video game.
Go to Point A, defeat 500 Orcs, Go to Point B, repeat.
__________________
Remember, stranger, passing by: As you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare thyself to follow me.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2016, 06:45 AM   #10
Nerwen
Wisest of the Noldor
 
Nerwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,701
Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Send a message via Skype™ to Nerwen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
You are right about the chase segment. For whilst it was an entertaining visual spectacle, it rendered poor Smaug rather impotent.
Same with the Goblins, and their apparent inability to defend themselves as they are hewn down in their hundreds.

Had we seen the Dwarves slowly accumulate more and more wounds - some losing limbs, some being horribly scorched by Smaug, some just being jittery and terrified of having to fight again - it would have presented things in a different light.
But instead, we have absurd scenes where, if memory serves, Thorin and another Dwarf all but point and laugh at the prospect of taking on about a hundred Orcs singlehanded.

The heroes in the LOTR trilogy either had to connect themselves to a massive army, or else hide and hope to Hell someone didn't gut them like a fish. But for some reason, the movies turned into a video game.
Go to Point A, defeat 500 Orcs, Go to Point B, repeat.
Losing credibility is always a potential problem with recurring villains or ones who get a lot of screentime, but as you say there are ways around it.

I do think the length of the films to be once again part of the problem- I guess they felt if they restricted Smaug to just his appearances in the book, it would be- relative to the running time- almost a blink-and-you-miss-him situation.
__________________
"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.
Nerwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2016, 08:08 AM   #11
Aaron
Haunting Spirit
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: England
Posts: 96
Aaron has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerwen View Post
Losing credibility is always a potential problem with recurring villains or ones who get a lot of screentime, but as you say there are ways around it.

I do think the length of the films to be once again part of the problem- I guess they felt if they restricted Smaug to just his appearances in the book, it would be- relative to the running time- almost a blink-and-you-miss-him situation.
The problem with Smaug in the book is that his death does not serve the narrative - but the symbolism Tolkien wanted to convey.
Had he been trying to write a simple adventure story, then yes, the heroic Dwarves would kill him in fair battle, or perhaps even Bilbo would find his courage and strike the killing blow himself?
But who defeats him? The very people he was gloating about destroying. With the help of a thrush. The Dragon, a destroyer of both man and nature, is undone by his own sins coming back to haunt him.

Just as Thorin's party is, when the Orcs arrive to avenge the Great Goblin, and, in Bolg's case, Azog.

A book can take these kinds of huge risks, and trust the audience to perceive the moral message in it all. But films, especially big blockbusters, often seem to be designed as disposable, forgettable cash-grabs.
In that regard, the films were very, very successful.
__________________
Remember, stranger, passing by: As you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare thyself to follow me.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:30 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.