The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Fun and Games > Quiz Room
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2001, 05:41 AM   #81
Maglor68
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 112
Maglor68 has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 19
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Valar/Maiar

Not bad Telchar. You only forgot one that I can think of. I also probably should have specified a time period (to resolve the Sauron serves Aule or Melkor problem, for example).

If we look at the Maiar at the time they descended into Arda, than we have

Manwe Eonwe
Ulmo Osse, Uinen, Salmar
Aule Sauron, Saruman
Orome Alatar, Pallamdo, Tilion
Lorien Melian
Varda Ilmare
Yavanna Radagast
Nienna Olorin

Also, even though she was not corrupted by him, I assume that as a fire spirit Arien was part of Melkor's retinue before he went bad.

Melkor Arien, Gothmog

It is unknown to whom Tom Bombadil and Goldberry belonged.

I guess it's you, Telchar.

By the way - who is Salmar?

- Maglor

</p>
Maglor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2001, 05:47 AM   #82
Grond
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 302
Grond has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 284
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> The Silmarillion's quiz

I'd like to sayonly a couple of things:

&quot;Then there were the two who became the sun and the moon but i have forgotten who they were...&quot; -&gt; Arien and Tilion.

Saruman and Radagast were known as Curumo and Aiwendil. Saruman and Radagast are not properly maiar, but istari (since they were invested in human bodies they were tied to the world and things like this...)



</p>
Grond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2001, 06:46 AM   #83
Telchar
Stonehearted Dwarf Smith
 
Telchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 2,247
Telchar has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 316
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Valar/Maiar

A couple of things ...

Arien was not fire spirit or not connected in any way to Melkor - So DAMN YOU - I had to go and look it up! <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)"> <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)"> <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)"> - Originally she tended the golden flowers in gardens of the Valie Vana! So we can add a Ninth Vala to the list!

Manwe = Eonwe
Ulmo = Osse, Uinen, Salmar
Aule = Sauron, Saruman
Orome = Alatar, Pallamdo, Tilion (nice finding)
Lorien/Irmo = Olorin
Varda = Ilmare
Yavanna = Radagast and Melian
Vana / Arien
Melkor = Gothmog

Regarding Gothmog - well JRRT changed his opinion on the origin of Balrogs - In earlier Myth there were thousands - in Later Myth he cut the number of Balrogs down to only seven ... Still I think we can put Gothmog on the list <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> - In very early Myth Gothmog was actually the son of Melkor - And Enwe (though he then had another name that I have forgotten) was the son of Manw <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

Im not sure we can count Bombadil and Goldberry among the Maiar - The subject is very unclear - at least to me!

Salmar was he who wrought the umlari (if thats the correct spelling) - the umlari was the horns of Ulmo

<img src=smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> Telchar





Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>
__________________
Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.
Telchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2001, 07:05 AM   #84
Telchar
Stonehearted Dwarf Smith
 
Telchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 2,247
Telchar has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 317
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The Silmarillion's quiz

I have a comment to Grond who said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Saruman and Radagast were known as Curumo and Aiwendil. Saruman and Radagast are not properly maiar, but istari (since they were invested in human bodies they were tied to the world and things like this...)<hr></blockquote>


I totally disagree! Although you're right that they (the Istari) were tied to the world and could be slain - they still remained maiar spirits - if slain they would like Gandalf return to Aman to be rehoused or as in Saurons case create a new body/house for themselves - what you're saying is that when Saurons body were slain in the downfall of Numenor he would die because he was a man? Here I assume that he took the the shape of a man when he was taken captive by the Numenoreans.
Gandalf spirit returned to Aman when his body was slain. Saruman was slain and his spirit rouse from his body:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> From RoTK
For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bend away, and with a sigh dissolved into<hr></blockquote>

Sarumans return was refused by the Valar or maybe even Iluvatar - so he could not return - wether or not he with time could be able to create a new house for his spirit I do not know...

It's like having a cup of tea - if you break the cup you no longer have a cup, but you still have tea - now its just on the floor <img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

<img src=smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> Telchar



Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000018>Telchar</A> at: 6/1/01 9:13:00 am
__________________
Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.
Telchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2001, 07:46 AM   #85
Grond
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 302
Grond has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 285
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Istari

I hope this is the last reply concerning istari and their nature here. But somebody could open a new topic in the books forum...

I do not agree with you Telchar. Sauron took an appearance, but did not invest himself in the body of a man. Annatar, for example, did not grow older, as the istari did. Istari could be killed (mening the dead or their bodies), despite their spirits could return. When Gandalf died, Olorin returned in a new body (he was no longer Gandalf the Grey but the White); when sauron was defeated (not killed), he took another appearance. In my opinion, their cases are completely different.

Remember that Tokien did never said that Sauron was invested in a human's body when he took an appearance. And that is quite significant.

To sum up, I simply differenciate Gandalf from Olorin. They are not the same.

</p>
Grond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2001, 08:16 AM   #86
Maglor68
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 112
Maglor68 has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 20
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Istari

Grond man - you are REALLY reaching. Okay: If you want to differentiate between the Maiar as they existed in Valinor and their incarnations as Istari in Middle Earth, I can see your point only from the strictest of technical definitions.

The bottom line, however, is that Saruman (for example) did exist in Valinor AS a Maia (I forget what his name in Valinor was) who served Aule. He DID take form as an Istari in Middle Earth who, though his powers were limited, was still unquestionably the same identity. I challenge you to find even one other person on this board who agrees with you on this point.

In any event, this question refers to Maia at the time of their entrance into Arda. So if you need to nit pick and say it was Olorin and not Gandalf, that's your business. But Telchar totally got it right.

- Maglor

</p>
Maglor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2001, 08:28 AM   #87
Maglor68
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 112
Maglor68 has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 21
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Arien

By the way Telchar, are you sure about Olorin and Melian? I have to go back and check the books, but I could have sworn according to the Sil they served Nienna and Lorien respectively, not Lorien and Yavanna.

As far as Arien is concerned, that was just a guess. In LOTR mythology, I've always associated the four greatest male Valar with the elements:

Melkor - Fire
Manwe - Air
Ulmo - Water
Aule - Earth

Although this is never specified for Melkor, my assumption comes from 1) his obsession with the Flame Imperishable, and 2) the constant references to him as being a lord of fire (and frost). As Arien IS a fire spirit, I always just assumed that originally she was part of his clan. Later, when he became evil, she was only fire spirit not to join in his rebellion. Perhaps she attached herself to Vana after she left Melkor in the same way that Sauron attached himself to Melkor after he left Aule.

Just a theory.

- Maglor

</p>
Maglor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2001, 10:24 AM   #88
Maglor68
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 112
Maglor68 has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
Posts: 28
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Where are you Telchar?

Telchar, you're up dude!

- Maglor

</p>
Maglor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2001, 10:50 PM   #89
Telchar
Stonehearted Dwarf Smith
 
Telchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 2,247
Telchar has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 322
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Where are you Telchar?

What was the name of the tree that Luthien was held captive in?

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>
__________________
Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.
Telchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2001, 05:31 AM   #90
Maglor68
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 112
Maglor68 has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
Posts: 34
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Tree

Was it Bob? Bob the Tree?

- Maglor

</p>
Maglor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2001, 05:37 AM   #91
Telchar
Stonehearted Dwarf Smith
 
Telchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 2,247
Telchar has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 328
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The silmarillion's quiz

No - Im sure it could have been <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)">

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>
__________________
Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.
Telchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2001, 08:24 AM   #92
Grond
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 302
Grond has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 286
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> The silmarillion's quiz

Hirilorn?

</p>
Grond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2001, 11:24 PM   #93
Telchar
Stonehearted Dwarf Smith
 
Telchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 2,247
Telchar has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 332
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The silmarillion's quiz

Hirilorn is good - go on Grond! <img src=cool.gif ALT="8)">

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>
__________________
Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.
Telchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2001, 04:48 AM   #94
Maglor68
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 112
Maglor68 has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
Posts: 40
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Next question

Grond - you out there, man?

</p>
Maglor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2001, 07:57 AM   #95
Grond
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 302
Grond has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 289
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> The silmarillion's quiz

Sorry for the delay, I'm having exams nowadays.

I'll make an easy one: what was Ringil?



</p>
Grond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2001, 12:10 PM   #96
HerenIstarion
Deadnight Chanter
 
HerenIstarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,301
HerenIstarion is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to HerenIstarion
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 1230
</TD><TD><img src=http://www.webdeveloper.com/animations/bnifiles/firewrk3.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> just like this icon

Fingolfin's sword

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/Heren.html>GeorgeLashkhi</a> </p>
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal

- Would you believe in the love at first sight?
- Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!
HerenIstarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2001, 06:35 AM   #97
Grond
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 302
Grond has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 290
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: just like this icon

Correct of course.

</p>
Grond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2001, 11:24 AM   #98
HerenIstarion
Deadnight Chanter
 
HerenIstarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,301
HerenIstarion is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to HerenIstarion
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 1237
</TD><TD><img src=http://www.webdeveloper.com/animations/bnifiles/firewrk3.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: just like this icon

What was the deed for which Isildur was renowned?

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/Heren.html>GeorgeLashkhi</a> </p>
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal

- Would you believe in the love at first sight?
- Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!
HerenIstarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2001, 05:23 AM   #99
Odysseus819
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 699
Odysseus819 has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 420
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Isildur

Rescuing a fruit of Nimloth.

</p>
Odysseus819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2001, 06:18 AM   #100
Maglor68
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 112
Maglor68 has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
Posts: 43
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Isildur

Cutting off Sauron's finger which bore the one ring?

- Maglor

</p>
Maglor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2001, 09:47 PM   #101
The Watcher in the Water
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 159
The Watcher in the Water has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 17
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: The silmarillion's quiz

Didnt he cut off the whole hand of Sauron?

</p>
The Watcher in the Water is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:28 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.