Would There Ever Be a Possibility...?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Thanks for the link, and most of all, for letting us hear the results of your live reading! It was very enjoyable, what with the accents, wolves, and all. I'm reminded of the live chat readings we did several years ago - one of the highlights of my Downs experience! Two posh Brit accents doing the two wizards and a wonderful Gollum - great stuff! Participants from several countries on two continents were united by the magic of the internet.

Right now, I don't have time for anything else than my current Tolkien project, so I can't join in. But I look forward to hearing more as your project proceeds...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So if you Matthew and Gwath could still look around for possibilites of fex. lending a mike from school / friend / friend's friend or something? Others I think have no problem.

I'll work on it.

[Nogrod]

If and when this is going to take some time we should also start to think about the sound effects and possible music stuff as well?

I do not think we will be such wizards that we could get any chapter fully composed but we might go for some interludes - or if the narration in the storyline calls for music then why not try to add some background music then? Someone said s/he would be happy to do some. After we decide on the chapter let's hear from you (McCaber that was?). I could also do some if needed. And anyone having ideas do then come forwards!


Making of sound effects has been something I have loved from very early on. I remember we made a kind of "Radio dramas" with my little sister back in the late seventies / early eighties (when I was ten+!) and I was already then most interested in trying to find the way to make the sounds even if the equipment at that time were quite primitive (we had a Tandberg reel-to-reel and a C-cassette radiorecorder back then and we recorded the effects on one, then played it and acted on it recording on the other one).

But if we'll really decide to go on with this project I'd have one more reason to invest some money to a decent digital audio recorder with which I could start experimenting with different sound effects (I've dreamt about it for a long time! Now I might have a reason to invest in it!). During the summer we could go to our summer cottage where the noises of the city would not interfere and we might record stuff like basic walking of a group in ME envirovenments, the howl of the wind, shooting of arrows, any watery noises (our cottage is by a lake) or whatever we need. And surely that would make us try the limits of our creativity at home! I mean the opening of the doors of Moria were not bad in our latest...

If we can avoid using the sfx cd's the better. The more we do ourselves the better. The more people are involved the better.

So thoughts on the chapter we should go for?

So thoughts on who sholud then play whom?

So thoughts on if we need music there and who should try making it?

So thoughts in possible sound effects we'd need in that chapter?


And if someone's thinking it: this is no closed society! Everyone is welcome whatever s/he can bring to this effort! Remember this is not dead serious! But surely we do our best...

[MatthewM]

How about The Ring Goes South or A Journey in the Dark, like you have recorded? Or maybe Farewell to Lorien?

Great job Downers on A Journey in the Dark! Really awesome to see this coming together!

[Gwathagor]

My vote goes to "The Ring Goes South." There is a great deal of dialogue in that particular chapter.

[Thinlómien]

Has anybody counted how many actors we have? That might affect the choice...

And as no one seems to be willing to guess, I'm going to reveal the cast of our audio clip before it's totally forgotten.

Nogrod is Gandalf.

Brinn is the narrator and Sam.

Aganzir is Frodo.

Volo is Gimli and Pippin.

A Little Green is Legolas and Merry.

I'm Boromir and Bill the Pony.

And by the way, you can't understand the brilliance of Greenie's performance unless you've heard Swedish.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Has anybody counted how many actors we have? That might affect the choice...

Well there's me, Nogrod, you, Gwath, Legate, Rikae (I think), Mac (I think), Brinn, Aganzir, Volo, A Little Green, and the KA(I think)? Am I missing anybody? If so I apologize.

With a cast this large, we could easily have each actor play one character. In "Farewell to Lorien" (I have to read through it again) but I think the whole Fellowship has lines along with Celeborn, Galadriel, and Haldir. But I am not completely sure if that's correct. I would like "The Ring Goes South", but let's see how many definite actors we have first, so we can include everybody.

As far as the casting goes, I would like to Boromir, as has been said. Does anybody else have a preference for who they play?

[Macalaure]

So... who wants to play what role. Who thinks who has a fitting voice for which role?

Matthew: Boromir
Nogrod: I would prefer him to play Gimli over Gandalf, because I missed some of Gandalf's grouchiness.
Legate: I rather liked his Aragorn.

Nogrod told me I would fit Legolas.

What do we do with our actresses? I love A Little Green's Gollum and Brinn's Sam. I wonder why nobody yet gave a sample of Galadriel or Éowyn.

(Matt, you missed Odd- and Nerwen )

Which chapter to do.... I would be for The Ring goes South or A Journey in the Dark - exciting chapters, lot's of dialogue. The Council of Elrond would be nice, but would probably require too many different voices for now. Lothlórien would also be interesting. If we had a really good Frodo, we could pick The Breaking of the Fellowship: His dialogue with Boromir is, in my opinion, one of the best dialogues of the whole LotR.

I'd also like to add my name on the list of people to applaud Nogrod and his crew for their amazing sound effects.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Matthew: Boromir
Nogrod: I would prefer him to play Gimli over Gandalf, because I missed some of Gandalf's grouchiness.
Legate: I rather liked his Aragorn.

Nogrod told me I would fit Legolas.

Sounds great to me! I too really, really like Nogrod's Gimli, but whoever he wants to play is fine with me.

What do we do with our actresses? I love A Little Green's Gollum and Brinn's Sam.

Yeah, the female voices sounded good with hobbits, and I'm sure they could do great Elves too. Also the narrator could be female, like in the clip Brinn does.

Oh, and I sincerely apologize for leaving anybody out in my list of participants!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Nogrod told me I would fit Legolas.

Then again the roles of the elves should probably go for the ladies in the end if we look at the gender-ratio here. As goes to the roles of the hobbits as well (even if you made just a wonderful Frodo!)

If we'd have a chapter with baddies Mac should definitively be one. His Grima is just a celebration of acting!

I've sent the clips of Gwath and Mac to my xanga-account. Check them here.

[Thinlómien]

Mac is a convincing baddie indeed: I love his Gríma! Gwath has a nice voice which could serve almost any role.

Originally Posted by Mac

I wonder why nobody yet gave a sample of Galadriel or Éowyn.

We are too modest (or then we just don't have fitting voices).

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Then again the roles of the elves should probably go for the ladies in the end if we look at the gender-ratio here. As goes to the roles of the hobbits as well (even if you made just a wonderful Frodo!)

I agree, but I also hope it won't make the hobbits appear too young and the elves too feminine.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If we'd have a chapter with baddies Mac should definitively be one. His Grima is just a celebration of acting!

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Mac is a convincing baddie indeed: I love his Gríma!

Thanks a lot!

[Gwathagor]

Nogrod: Gimli (and/or Gandalf?)
Macalaure: ...somebody BAD...
MatthewM: Boromir
I'll need to listen to the Journey in the Dark clip again to decide regarding the others.

[Gwathagor]

Macalaure would be a good Legolas.

I think it might be wise to make the narrator a female voice, given the ratio of female actors to female parts.

[McCaber]

So, The Ring Goes South or A Journey in the Dark to start out with? Sounds good to me.

I'll start trying to hammer out some music. Is Rikae going to help with this, or should I do it by myself?

[MatthewM]

Nice clips from Gwath and Mac! I do agree that we need to give the females some Elf parts and hobbit parts, but I think at least Frodo should be played by a male, separating him as older than the other three hobbits. I like Mac's Grisknak, and I like Gwath's Aragorn.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nice. I actually quite like Gwath's Aragorn. And I also think Macgolas may be nice (if we choose not to leave the Elves for the female part of actors). Only, is it possible to get a better quality of the recording? Such thing would be probably good.

Concerning the chapter, I already said before that The Ring Goes South or Journey in the Dark would be a good choice in my opinion (especially now after I just re-read Ring Goes South, I find it a quite good chapter to pick - only there are large narrator-bits, but what can we do. These are everywhere). And concerning my role, I don't care much, as I said, I picked Aragorn to show the "middle" position of my voice acting, I can eventually go into extremes (no, not meaning just these hobbits you heard). So whatever you think would suit me and/or mainly what role would be needed to fill.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I wonder why nobody yet gave a sample of Galadriel or Éowyn.

You know my microphone hasn't been working lately.

I just wanted to add my vote for, at the very least, the following:
MatthewM as Boromir
Nogrod as Gimli
Macalaure as Legolas
Also, somebody did a great Gollum, but I can't remember at the moment who it was (and I'm away from my own computer, so I can't find out right now.)

I'll have to listen to the clips again before giving more opinions, but those are the ones that definately stuck out in my mind so far.

McCaber - sounds great! You go ahead (I just wanted music, I don't really have the equipment on hand to create it.)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by McCaber

I'll start trying to hammer out some music. Is Rikae going to help with this, or should I do it by myself?

If you wish to have a partner in this I could try to help you out if I have time. So if you wish to have some live basslines or guitars (acoustic or electric) - or possibly choirs - I could give you a hand. Or if you need help arranging some of the stuff I'd be happy to help as that is a thing I love myself (I'm no composer but I may have some talent in arranging music).

I'll continue this is an PM so as not to burden this thread with technicalities.

[MatthewM]

Any more updates here?

[Nogrod]

Okey-dokey.

I've made the first experiment with the music as a kind of an idea of a basic chord-procession for the journey from Rivendell through Eregion came to my mind.

The clip starts with the narration when the fellowship leaves Rivendell. It is said there "there was no laughter, no song or music..." But after the depiction goes a little forwards the music creeps in.

The main idea in the music is to bring together a bit sorrowful chord-procession by an acoustic guitar (the empty land that once was great but still is not devoid of beauty) and a darker synthetizer line (bringing forwards the unknown threat).

I have a couple of ideas how to bring in some variations to the main theme while the scene continues. I also have some ideas how to add some voices to sing an aaaa-aaaa -thing or a distortion electric guitar wailing quietly at the background at some other places.

There are two things in the clip:
1. The narration fitted with music (about 1.45)
2. The music by itself so that you could get a better picture what it is goinbg on there in the background. (a bit shorter)

You will find it from here.

Comments, further ideas?

What I did realise was that making the music to a whole chapter will not be a small feat indeed!

So don't be afraid McCaber, I'm not wishing to rob this part of the project from you. This idea just came to my mind and I wished to give it a try - and I kind of like it enough to wish to share it. If we will actually get a full chapter done there will be more than enough stuff to compose... And if you have better ideas for this part (if we're going to record this part in the first place) just let me know. No problem. It was fun doing this anyway.

PS. If you have earphones use them! The slowly growing music will sound much better with phones...

[Rikae]

Wow, that music really gives just the right mood, I think. Nice work!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

At least for myself - quite nice, Nog! I am not going to meddle into this music arrangement and other stuff, but I won't have any objections if this were to play there. Other comments? From the beginning, it sounds like Pink Floyd's Sorrow (of course, because there's the synthetiser and nothing else ), or overall it sounds like the music from Diablo Or am I to offer responsible criticism? Maybe I would expect... "softer" thing. This is way too... dark? ... "raw"... but as I said, I'd accept that there, and overall I don't care whether there's going to be music or not (Hm... so why am I writing this. Maybe so that you have at least some feedback ).

[Nogrod]

Thank's for the feedback Legate!

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Maybe I would expect... "softer" thing. This is way too... dark? ... "raw"...

So just check this.

This is another version of the same music (and music only) where I have taken all those dark echoes and high-pitched reverbs away so that the acoustic guitar sounds more "normal" and bright. There is quite a difference there.

I guess the whole mood is a bit different. There still is the suspense or the dark flavour but it sounds more bright or crisp.

Would that sound better to you?

[Gwathagor]

I like the music a lot, both variations of it.

However, they both are a little depressing and lack an adventurous, hopeful, heroic quality. While listening to it, I don't get the sense that we are on a quest which, at least early on, would doubtless seem exciting to the Fellowship.

Anyway, I realize that we're all going to have differing personal opinions, so I'll be content with whatever we settle on.

Thanks for doing that, Nogrod!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

overall it sounds like the music from Diablo

Ha! That's true!

[McCaber]

Thanks Nogrod. That gives me a nice place to start/lead up to, and it makes my job easier.

If anyone else wants to help with the music, I'm not stopping them. Just send me or Nogrod a PM.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

This is another version of the same music (and music only) where I have taken all those dark echoes and high-pitched reverbs away so that the acoustic guitar sounds more "normal" and bright. There is quite a difference there.

I guess the whole mood is a bit different. There still is the suspense or the dark flavour but it sounds more bright or crisp.

Would that sound better to you?

Oh, indeed, this sounds better and I actually really like it. I would be all for putting that there

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

However, they both are a little depressing and lack an adventurous, hopeful, heroic quality. While listening to it, I don't get the sense that we are on a quest which, at least early on, would doubtless seem exciting to the Fellowship.

Hm, but I would actually oppose having any "heroic" music in there (in this moment). What I really won't like to see would be the heroic thing like we see in FotR (the Fellowship climbing the mountains and that Fellowship theme playing there) - it's nice in the film, but it's not good for us, I'd say. And look what is the text which is supposed to go with it: it is not meant to be heroic at all, and last of all hopeful - Eru forbid! This is a hopeless quest! And the Fellowship is leaving the safety of Rivendell, one dark winter night - and I strongly doubt anyone is excited. Just read the chapter! The only one who is "heroic" is Boromir who feels the need to blow his horn. But nothing else.

Oh, and one thing for you music-makers. My brother (who is actually quite a music maker) suddenly expressed his interest in the subject, so it could be that he might lend a hand or two to the music-making if you wish and if it's possible. What do you think? If that will be possible, then... hmm... how should we do this... let's say you could PM me some things about what you are planning or what you'd need or whatever with the music, and then we'll see.

[Gwathagor]

It doesn't need to resemble the movie score, Legate. In fact, that wasn't what I had in mind at all. I would just like it slightly more upbeat.

[Volo]

How about something as crazy as in Dead Man, if someone has seen it?

But the stuff Nogrod made is to be put into it, for sure.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Oh, and one thing for you music-makers. My brother (who is actually quite a music maker) suddenly expressed his interest in the subject, so it could be that he might lend a hand or two to the music-making if you wish and if it's possible. What do you think? If that will be possible, then... hmm... how should we do this... let's say you could PM me some things about what you are planning or what you'd need or whatever with the music, and then we'll see.

Good to hear that! More people in the fellowship the merrier!

The first problem though is that there is no planning going on at the moment. And it's hard to plan if we don't have a deal about which chapter we should go for in the first place. I myself might vote for the Ring goes south as it has diffent moods and quite a lot of dialogue.

And what would your brother wish to do Legate, compose, arrange, play - and if he'd play which instruments he could do? The easiest thing is when he wishes to play then we can send him the background when that is ready and he can either play the violin or oboe or electric guitar (or whatever instrument he plays) right over it the way he wishes or we could send him notes and give him the beat. If he wishes to join in with the composing then we should make some deals about who takes which part of the chapter. And even if he doesn't I should have something like a deal with McCaber anyway. I mean I can continue developing this one I've made this far if McCaber doesn't say he wishes to do exactly that part. All this counting on the possibility that we'll end up doing this chapter that is.


If we take the passage I've made now the scene will go on for something like 10 minutes and it should mainly be a background thing - like all this music should be. We can use the pauses in the narration or the changing of the settings in the book as places where we can bring forwards some musical ideas for something like ten seconds at the time but probably no more.

If the stuff I made (well, a lengthier rerecording of it including a lot of variation) would start with the departing of the fellowship from Rivendell I'd say the next place to make some real changes - not taking into account the variations - would be Sam's night-watch the earliest, probably only when they start climbing Caradhras. But even there the changes should be more smooth than abrupt. With the attack of Caradhras and the coming of the snow we should have a totally new theme to be sure - even if there could be remnants of the score before it.

And we definitively need a Rivendell theme in the beginning - spiced with some hobbit-like things as there are long sequences of the hobbits discussing before the company sets off.

If the Ring Goes South is going to be the chapter we will make...

[Gwathagor]

I vote that we do either The Ring Goes South or Journey In The Dark. Journey In The Dark might even allow Gollum a cameo appearance!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And we definitively need a Rivendell theme in the beginning - spiced with some hobbit-like things as there are long sequences of the hobbits discussing before the company sets off.

Wind and bells and mellow xylophones for the elves and some kind of English folk tune for the Hobbits!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First, I actually thought we have already semi-agreed on Ring Goes South; but in any case, I would be all for it. Journey in the Dark is also nice, but TRGS sounds at least as well and there's quite a lot character talk at the beginning and Nog has actually started working on something for TRGS, so...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And what would your brother wish to do Legate, compose, arrange, play - and if he'd play which instruments he could do? The easiest thing is when he wishes to play then we can send him the background when that is ready and he can either play the violin or oboe or electric guitar (or whatever instrument he plays) right over it the way he wishes or we could send him notes and give him the beat. If he wishes to join in with the composing then we should make some deals about who takes which part of the chapter.

Now, concerning this (I am almost-quoting, or paraphrasing the response):

If you have something done and you'd wish him to play something for you - he can do either accoustic guitar or bass guitar (unfortunately, we no longer have the violoncello and there's also piano but it will be probably very bad quality), you can send it to him eventually with some guidelines how you'd like it to be. Or with the beat or notes, if you sent him such (direct quote: "If they really took the effort with it..." ), then he could follow that as well.

And if it were to be the way that everyone picks some part of the chapter and makes music for it, then also no problem - you can discuss that. In that case, there are probably some passages where you'd like to have the music. So from these passages, you would probably have some passages you'd like to do, and also in that case he'd look at these passages if there isn't anything which would really interest him, and you could then agree on what is he going to do.

And last thing, he also has some of these composing-programs and he can do something with them, like putting tracks together or such, or make electronic music (or music out of recorded music samples).

[Nerwen]

Nogrod, I have sent you a clip of me saying stuff, in case you need more voice-actors.

[Nogrod]

Nice!

You Nerwen have quite a "boyish" voice which is exactly what we'd need regarding the hobbits and elves.

[Macalaure]

Soooo... I guess we're doing The Ring goes South or A Journey in the Dark? Well, since the two follow each other, why not start with the first and see how far we get?

We're not going ahead well with the casting. I've heard many samples, but who do people actually like to play now? Why doesn't everybody just say who s/he wants to play and then send in a short sample of each of these characters (if s/he doesn't have already) so that we can decide on it? Once we've decided on it, we can start experimenting with the first non-local recordings!

For the two chapters above we need:

Narrator
Frodo
Sam
Merry
Pippin
Gandalf
Aragorn
Legolas
Gimli
Boromir
Elrond
Bilbo

The characters for female voices would be the Narrator, Frodo(?), Sam, Merry, Pippin, Legolas(?), Bilbo(?).


I really like Nogrod's music. I was sceptical to too much background music before, but this was very nice to listen to.

Originally Posted by Gwath

Wind and bells and mellow xylophones for the elves

Hmm, when I think of Elvish music, I usually think more of harps and flutes, as in Blind Guardian's "Battle of Sudden Flame", for example.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Hmm, when I think of Elvish music, I usually think more of harps and flutes, as in Blind Guardian's "Battle of Sudden Flame", for example.

Naturally, it would depend upon the occasion.

[Volo]

Ok, I'm interested and I hope there's enough of my voice in A Journey in the Dark, because I don't have any microphone at the moment so it would be a big bother to find one.

[MatthewM]

The wheels are turning!

Nogrod- that's an excellent musical score you have brewing. I too would like it a little more uplifting, but I have no qualms in keeping it along the same lines that you have created. Afterall, right before the Company sets out in the dead of winter, there isn't a voice in Rivendell that is heard. All was dark, cold, and brooding. Like Legate said, the only real noise that takes place before the Company sets out is the sounding of Boromir's horn. So, the dark feel of the music definitely does go with the scene.

Once the Company leaves Rivendell, perhaps then it should be slightly more cheery? Since they've been out into the open air, Gandalf's leading...the overall mood is a tad more cheerful, although still flocked with cold and doubt.

On the chapter- I also thought we agreed on The Ring Goes South. I think it would be a great choice to start with. And, if that goes well, we could always do A Journey in the Dark. As far as casting goes, I believe that everyone agrees with me being Boromir. So, that leaves 11 more characters to be voiced.

Concerning hobbits, I will say that I think Frodo and/or Bilbo should be voiced by males, to seperate them from the younger hobbits. I would like Legolas to also be played by a male but if some females fit the part then that's fine too. I know we have a large female crowd, so let's make sure everybody can participate if they want to.

Does anybody have a character they would prefer?