**RotK - Gandalf (Ian McKellan)** - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 12-16-2003, 01:09 PM

Did you enjoy Gandalf's scenes in this movie, and what did you think of McKellan's acting?

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-17-2003, 01:48 PM

Gandalf was fantastic apart from two parts. Where he hit Denethor (shouldn't have happened) and his annoyance at Pippin for offering his service to Gondor (why would Gandalf humiliate Pippin like that?).Other than that, he was very good. Disposed of some Orcs rather impressively!

Sleeping Beauty · 12-17-2003, 03:26 PM

Though I haven't seen the movie yet *sigh*, I have this suggestion on the Pippin part. I think the reason Gandalf was frustrated because if Pippin would have had the ring, in a sense he would have been offering it up to Gondor. Offering an pledge like that from a ringbearer probably would have been disaster, especially since we just survived a near scrape like that in the two towers. And for some reason I do believe that Gandalf is trying to make it look like Pippin is the ringbearer as to buy Frodo sometime. I mean, a hobbit in the care of a wizard.....Wouldn't that seem a little suspicious? Thoughts are welcome, as I haven't seen the luscious last movie and someone might be able to give a better explanation....

Arathiriel · 12-17-2003, 05:34 PM

Oh I LOVED Gandalf in this!Ian McKellen - man can he send volumes with a simple facial expression!And sorry for another Denethor fans but I was nearly going "WOOO HOO!!!!" when he hit Denethor - believe me if he hadn't I surely would have had to jump into the movie and do it myself after he said that horrid thing to Faramir!

Diamond18 · 12-18-2003, 12:28 AM

Yes, actually, I almost cheered when Gandalf smacked Denethor. I'm sorry, but really, I couldn't help thinking "Yeah! Finally! Sheesh." I never liked Denethor in the book and I liked him less in the movie.I loved the part where Gandalf's telling Pippin what not to say, then just decides (to paraphrase) "Perhaps it would be best for you to not say anything at all." Awwww.I missed him actually talking to the Witch-King, though....

12-18-2003, 09:12 AM

I thought Gandalf was great in this. the only thing it seemed like he didnt use his powers too much. I mean he rode out and met the Gondorian troops fleeing Osgiliath and stopped the Wraiths from pursuing but after that he just seemed to use his sword. But he did kick *** with that.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-18-2003, 12:00 PM

The scene with Pippin in front of Denethor was marred by this point. In the book Gandalf was respectful of Pippin's choice to swear fealty to Gondor.In the movie I had tears in my eyes when Pippin, remembering the death of Boromir, emotionally offered his services to Denethor, only for Gandalf to ruin the moment with a needless quip. Out of character.

Failivrin · 12-18-2003, 03:13 PM

i loved McKellen. he is atleast one of my favourite 3 actors in the movie, if not my favourite.when he hit Denethor, i thought that was pretty stupid because i was very much enjoying John Noble's performance (apart from the walking fireball bit ).i thought the bit where he rode out to save Faramir was very good, but they didn't make enough of it.i loved how they all called him Mithrandir!

doug*platypus · 12-18-2003, 05:46 PM

Not only was Ian McKellen's acting absolutely perfect in all three movies, but I believe he set the standard for all the others to achieve. We really owe a lot to him, and to whoever did the exceptional job of casting him. It's easy to take Gandalf for granted in these films, but a lesser actor could easily have made a huge impact. I thought that the White Rider going to rescue the out-companies retreating from Osgiliath was phenomenal. Truly great scene, but I think that showing Pippin riding with him kind of lessened the sense of danger. Poor Ian did have a couple of very questionable lines to utter, like: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> So passes Denethor, blah blah blah. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No kidding! You think we didn't notice the guy wearing the flaming suit jump off the cliff?! Also: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Guard of the Citadel, indeed! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sure, it was nice to have Pippin saving the life of a demi-god but I don't appreciate PJs Lucas-like way of interrupting the flow of battle to insert cheesy dialogue. Yes, in FOTR Mister Baggins was full of surprises, but that didn't change the fact that every Orc in the place was about to deck the halls with blood of Gimli! How about keeping the emotion consistent for five minutes!It was very satisfying to see Gandalf taking command of the defence of the city, and for once I actually loved movieShadowfax, when he sprang up the stairs to the battlement. However, his usefulness as the single most powerful being on the side of Gondor was really poorly shown. It was not made clear enough why Gandalf had to be drawn away from the battle to save Faramir, and I thought that a brief confrontation with the Witch King was a necessity (especially after Witchy's words about dealing with the wizard). I also thought that the character of Gandalf lost out through the deletion of a couple of lines. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The time, Faramir! The time! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>was noticeably missing, as well as the look of horror and tiredness on hearing about Frodo's destination, and his near loss of composure at the Black Gate. The scene with Aragorn at Edoras didn't even come close to making up for these, and I'm a bit dubious about Gandalf's ability to sense that Frodo is still alive and bearing the Ring.

Lily Bracegirdle · 12-18-2003, 08:33 PM

Ian McKellan is a god. Maia. Whatever. The look on Gandalf's face when he realizes Frodo has succeeded is a revelation. That man can do more with his eyes and a couple of fake eyebrows than many actors can do with their whole bodies. Every scene with Sir Ian in it is a good one, especially when Gandalf is dealing with the hobbits. The love he feels for them (sometimes mixed with annoyance, true) shines so clearly it's breathtaking. The Gandy/Pip scenes were awesome.I didn't like PJs choice to have Gandalf deck Denethor, but I was also relieved we didn't have to see more Denethor in that scene. -Lily

Finwe · 12-19-2003, 12:35 PM

I'll never be able to look at Ian McKellen again without thinking that he is Gandalf. He just puts so much of himself into the character that often, it's impossible to distinguish where one leaves off and the other starts. Ian is just brilliant!

Jjudvven · 12-19-2003, 12:37 PM

Ian played Gandalf brilliantly. He was, in my opinion, one of the best characters in the entire film. He was Gandalf exactly as I had always imagined him. I don't care for the actor himself, but I can't deny that he was perfect for the role.

Sapphire_Flame · 12-19-2003, 04:00 PM

Gandalf was too mean to Pip, as usual. Some of the scenes with these two were quite good, but Gandy's reaction to Pippin swearing fealty to Gondor was really horrid. Poor Pippin! Other than that, I thought McKellen did quite a good job. The way he can convey so much emotion with one facial expression is incredible.Abedithon le,~*~Aranel~*~

Lyta_Underhill · 01-02-2004, 12:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Gandalf was too mean to Pip, as usual. Some of the scenes with these two were quite good, but Gandy's reaction to Pippin swearing fealty to Gondor was really horrid. Poor Pippin! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm still trying to decide what to make of the exchange between the two here. I think, somehow, the change in Gandalf's treatment of Pippin at this point ties into the very different demeanor of Denethor at their first meeting. In the book, Denethor has not yet succumbed to the madness that seems to be more apparent in Movie-Denethor. Therefore, I think to myself that Gandalf must have a very different reaction to Pippin's pledging fealty to such an unstable leader. I do agree that the emotional impact that Pippin's pledge could have had is lost in this reworking of the scene. I do not fault Ian McKellen for it, though. Somehow, he never loses the overal concern and care for Pippin, although the circumstances seem to dictate that he be more harsh with Pippin's choice.I must say I have thought of Ian as Gandalf since the first movie. He embodies the spirit as well as the body of Mithrandir, above and beyond his mere presence and speech; there is an indescribable warmth to him that bids me forgive him for his harsh speech to Pippin, because I can tell he really cares for him. (After all, Pippin is his project! )As for his smackdowns of Denethor, that crazy Steward needed it! What would YOU do if the head of state suddenly screamed at you to run for your life and abandon your post? And again at the Rath Dinen, Denethor was a clear and present danger to Pippin! I do regret the weird realization shot of Denethor and the suggestion that he might realize Faramir is alive, because this, in itself, muddies the situation and throws Gandalf's actions into question. But did he see it? Cheers, Lyta

12-16-2003, 01:09 PM	#1
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,499	RotK - Gandalf (Ian McKellan) Did you enjoy Gandalf's scenes in this movie, and what did you think of McKellan's acting? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

12-17-2003, 01:48 PM	#2
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Gandalf was fantastic apart from two parts. Where he hit Denethor (shouldn't have happened) and his annoyance at Pippin for offering his service to Gondor (why would Gandalf humiliate Pippin like that?).<P>Other than that, he was very good. Disposed of some Orcs rather impressively! __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-17-2003, 03:26 PM	#3
Sleeping Beauty Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Somewhere between the back of the chair and the monitor Posts: 115	Though I haven't seen the movie yet sigh, I have this suggestion on the Pippin part. I think the reason Gandalf was frustrated because if Pippin would have had the ring, in a sense he would have been offering it up to Gondor. Offering an pledge like that from a ringbearer probably would have been disaster, especially since we just survived a near scrape like that in the two towers. And for some reason I do believe that Gandalf is trying to make it look like Pippin is the ringbearer as to buy Frodo sometime. I mean, a hobbit in the care of a wizard.....Wouldn't that seem a little suspicious? Thoughts are welcome, as I haven't seen the luscious last movie and someone might be able to give a better explanation.... __________________ "If I knew all of the answers, I'd run for God." ~ Klinger: MAS*H

12-17-2003, 05:34 PM	#4
Arathiriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Blessed Realm Posts: 284	Oh I <B>LOVED</B> Gandalf in this!<P>Ian McKellen - man can he send volumes with a simple facial expression!<P>And sorry for another Denethor fans but I was nearly going <B>"WOOO HOO!!!!"</B> when he hit Denethor - believe me if he hadn't I surely would have had to jump into the movie and do it myself after he said that <I>horrid</I> thing to Faramir! __________________ 'I love him. He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, somehow. But I love him, whether or no.' - Samwise Gamgee

12-18-2003, 12:28 AM	#5
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Yes, actually, I almost cheered when Gandalf smacked Denethor. I'm sorry, but really, I couldn't help thinking "Yeah! Finally! Sheesh." I never liked Denethor in the book and I liked him less in the movie.<P>I loved the part where Gandalf's telling Pippin what not to say, then just decides (to paraphrase) "Perhaps it would be best for you to not say anything at all." Awwww.<P>I missed him actually <I>talking</I> to the Witch-King, though.... __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

12-18-2003, 09:12 AM	#6
rider of rohirrim Guest Posts: n/a	I thought Gandalf was great in this. the only thing it seemed like he didnt use his powers too much. I mean he rode out and met the Gondorian troops fleeing Osgiliath and stopped the Wraiths from pursuing but after that he just seemed to use his sword. But he did kick *** with that.

12-18-2003, 12:00 PM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	The scene with Pippin in front of Denethor was marred by this point. In the book Gandalf was respectful of Pippin's choice to swear fealty to Gondor.<P>In the movie I had tears in my eyes when Pippin, remembering the death of Boromir, emotionally offered his services to Denethor, only for Gandalf to ruin the moment with a needless quip. Out of character. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-18-2003, 03:13 PM	#8
Failivrin Wight Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: England Posts: 201	i loved McKellen. he is atleast one of my favourite 3 actors in the movie, if not my favourite.<P>when he hit Denethor, i thought that was pretty stupid because i was very much enjoying John Noble's performance (apart from the walking fireball bit ).<P>i thought the bit where he rode out to save Faramir was very good, but they didn't make enough of it.<P>i loved how they all called him Mithrandir! __________________ no one in particular

12-18-2003, 05:46 PM	#9
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Not only was Ian McKellen's acting absolutely perfect in all three movies, but I believe he set the standard for all the others to achieve. We really owe a lot to him, and to whoever did the exceptional job of casting him. It's easy to take Gandalf for granted in these films, but a lesser actor could easily have made a huge impact. <P>I thought that the White Rider going to rescue the out-companies retreating from Osgiliath was phenomenal. Truly great scene, but I think that showing Pippin riding with him kind of lessened the sense of danger. <P>Poor Ian did have a couple of very questionable lines to utter, like:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> So passes Denethor, blah blah blah. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No kidding! You think we didn't notice the guy wearing the flaming suit jump off the cliff?! Also: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Guard of the Citadel, indeed! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sure, it was nice to have Pippin saving the life of a demi-god but I don't appreciate PJs Lucas-like way of interrupting the flow of battle to insert cheesy dialogue. Yes, in FOTR Mister Baggins was full of surprises, but that didn't change the fact that every Orc in the place was about to deck the halls with blood of Gimli! How about keeping the emotion consistent for five minutes!<P>It was <B>very</B> satisfying to see Gandalf taking command of the defence of the city, and for once I actually loved movieShadowfax, when he sprang up the stairs to the battlement. However, his usefulness as the single most powerful being on the side of Gondor was really poorly shown. It was not made clear enough why Gandalf had to be drawn away from the battle to save Faramir, and I thought that a brief confrontation with the Witch King was a necessity (especially after Witchy's words about dealing with the wizard). <P>I also thought that the character of Gandalf lost out through the deletion of a couple of lines. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The time, Faramir! The time! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>was noticeably missing, as well as the look of horror and tiredness on hearing about Frodo's destination, and his near loss of composure at the Black Gate. The scene with Aragorn at Edoras didn't even come close to making up for these, and I'm a bit dubious about Gandalf's ability to sense that Frodo is still alive and bearing the Ring. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-18-2003, 08:33 PM	#10
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	Ian McKellan is a god. Maia. Whatever. The look on Gandalf's face when he realizes Frodo has succeeded is a revelation. That man can do more with his eyes and a couple of fake eyebrows than many actors can do with their whole bodies. Every scene with Sir Ian in it is a good one, especially when Gandalf is dealing with the hobbits. The love he feels for them (sometimes mixed with annoyance, true) shines so clearly it's breathtaking. The Gandy/Pip scenes were awesome.<P>I didn't like PJs choice to have Gandalf deck Denethor, but I was also relieved we didn't have to see more Denethor in that scene. <P>-Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

12-19-2003, 12:35 PM	#11
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I'll never be able to look at Ian McKellen again without thinking that he is Gandalf. He just puts so much of himself into the character that often, it's impossible to distinguish where one leaves off and the other starts. Ian is just brilliant! __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-19-2003, 12:37 PM	#12
Jjudvven Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Land to the West Posts: 154	Ian played Gandalf brilliantly. He was, in my opinion, one of the best characters in the entire film. He was Gandalf exactly as I had always imagined him. I don't care for the actor himself, but I can't deny that he was perfect for the role. __________________ "I don't know all of you as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve."

12-19-2003, 04:00 PM	#13
Sapphire_Flame Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The World That Never Was Posts: 1,232	Gandalf was too mean to Pip, as usual. Some of the scenes with these two were quite good, but Gandy's reaction to Pippin swearing fealty to Gondor was really horrid. Poor Pippin! <P>Other than that, I thought McKellen did quite a good job. The way he can convey so much emotion with one facial expression is incredible.<P>Abedithon le,<P>~~Aranel~~ __________________ The Hitchhiking Ghost

01-02-2004, 12:54 AM	#14
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Gandalf was too mean to Pip, as usual. Some of the scenes with these two were quite good, but Gandy's reaction to Pippin swearing fealty to Gondor was really horrid. Poor Pippin! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm still trying to decide what to make of the exchange between the two here. I think, somehow, the change in Gandalf's treatment of Pippin at this point ties into the very different demeanor of Denethor at their first meeting. In the book, Denethor has not yet succumbed to the madness that seems to be more apparent in Movie-Denethor. Therefore, I think to myself that Gandalf must have a very different reaction to Pippin's pledging fealty to such an unstable leader. I do agree that the emotional impact that Pippin's pledge could have had is lost in this reworking of the scene. I do not fault Ian McKellen for it, though. Somehow, he never loses the overal concern and care for Pippin, although the circumstances seem to dictate that he be more harsh with Pippin's choice.<P>I must say I have thought of Ian as Gandalf since the first movie. He embodies the spirit as well as the body of Mithrandir, above and beyond his mere presence and speech; there is an indescribable warmth to him that bids me forgive him for his harsh speech to Pippin, because I can tell he really cares for him. (After all, Pippin is his project! )<P>As for his smackdowns of Denethor, that crazy Steward needed it! What would YOU do if the head of state suddenly screamed at you to run for your life and abandon your post? And again at the Rath Dinen, Denethor was a clear and present danger to Pippin! I do regret the weird realization shot of Denethor and the suggestion that he might realize Faramir is alive, because this, in itself, muddies the situation and throws Gandalf's actions into question. But did he see it? <P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”