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Old 12-16-2001, 02:44 AM   #1
Elrian
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Tolkien Elfish?

I'd like to know who the whiz is that started that term going. It sounds silly. I mean was it too much trouble to say Elven? It kills the beauty of the language by calling it that.
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Old 12-16-2001, 04:25 AM   #2
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I agree! Elven it is!<BR>Thoe, iv might have said elfish once.<BR>Sorry, Elrian.<BR>But why did people start to say elfish?
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Old 12-16-2001, 06:15 AM   #3
Lostgaeriel
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Because, the words "elfish" and "elfin" are in most dictionaries, but "elven" is not.<P>I think "Elven" is a much better-sounding word. And it distinguishes Tolkien's Elves from those miniature brownie/fairy/faerie/leprechaun/elves.<p>[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ]
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Old 12-16-2001, 12:07 PM   #4
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Hmmm.... when i saw the post the reason i came in was to tell you it isnt elfish...that annoys me a WHOLE lot.. It makes me think of fish and i dont want to think of fish when i think of elves...
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Old 12-16-2001, 12:08 PM   #5
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It's Elven, that's what the post was about.
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Old 12-16-2001, 05:47 PM   #6
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I recently read a biography on Proffesor Tolkien, and the correct pernunciation is actually elfish believe it or not. (Dwarfish also) Although I and all other Tolkien fans around the world believe elven and dwarven sound much more beautiful. Tolkien himself says so, and kept his own word, elvish. Just keep saying elvish. Pay no attention to the dictionary.
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Old 12-16-2001, 11:53 PM   #7
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It doesn't bother me that much. Many people use those terms.<P>The problem is a Dwarve is different from a Dwarf. Dwarves are actually Dwarrows while Dwarfs are still Dwarfs. The distinctions are made clear by Tolkien because in his mind they are not the same, just as Dwarin Thunderhammer stated in the thread 'Goblins?' in the Books II Forum. Elves of ME are not Elves from popular myth and legend and are not faeries either. They are Eldar and the term 'Elf' Tolkien disliked altogether. So if you are saying that Elfish is wrong, then I would think that Elven would be too, from a certain perspective anyway.
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Old 12-17-2001, 01:21 AM   #8
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So Eldarin would be correct and Elven, Elfish, and Elvish would be more proper for a Keebler Elf. I like that, your right. But Elven still does ound better than the other 2 if it must be so.
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Old 12-17-2001, 02:29 PM   #9
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Well, just from a quick glance at the Fellowship (handy, near the PC) Tolkien seems to use 'elvish' for the language and script (ie as a noun) and 'elven' for other references, (ie as an adjective). For example, the writing on the ring: "the letters are Elvish", Bilbo saying "I thought you knew enough Elvish at least to know Dúnedan". Gandalf speaks "many single words of Elvish speech" while trying to open the Doors at Moria. There are many other references too. <BR>But at the doors to Moria, Gandalf mentions the "elven-way from Hollin" and the decorations being in the "elven-tongue". There are also uses of elven in other places like "Here's a pretty hobbit skin to wrap an elven-princeling in", "Gil-galad was an elven-king" and so on.<P>It seems to me that Tolkien made a clear distinction between 'elvish' as a noun and 'elven' as an adjective. (Though I found 'elvin' as well, I think it may be a misprint - "an elvin maid there was of old, a shining star by day..." sang in the Lothlorien chapter.)<p>[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Elanor ]
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Old 12-17-2001, 02:41 PM   #10
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Hmmm, im swedish so it dosent really matter to me. But something that really bugs me is that many people in sweden thinks that elf means pixie since the swedish word for pixie sounds much more like the english elf than the swedsih elf does. <P>English Swedish<P>Elf = Alv (Alv)<BR>Pixie = Elva (Älva)<P>Now you might think that the swedish word for elf is an ugly word not worthy such a beatiful being. But it sounds better in swedsih trust me.
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Old 12-17-2001, 09:36 PM   #11
Elrian
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Alv doesn't sound bad. Now if it were Urp or something like that it would.<P>I did check my books and the Complete guide to Middle Earth and it is Elvish. Elven does sound better but it's there in black and white. But Elfish is nowhere in there thank goodness. Gee as many times as I've them, goes to show you can't remember everything.
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Old 12-18-2001, 01:47 AM   #12
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I've seen some silly things come out of the Complete Guide. Not to say it's wrong in this instance, though. <BR>I once saw a guy argue until he was blue in the face that the Witch-King's real name was Morgul -- based on the Complete Guide. At least I think it was the Complete Guide to Middle-earth. Could've been another with a similar name. <BR>I've got spicy crab dip!
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