The Barrow-Wight: Servant of Melkor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

nobody · 01-03-2004, 03:21 AM

Quote:

'Cold be hand and heart and bone,
and cold be sleep under stone:
never more to wake on stony bed,
never, till the Sun fails and the Moon is dead.
In the black wind the starts shall die,
and still on gold here let them lie,
till the dark lord lifts his hand
over dead sea and withered land.'-FoTR, Fog on the Barrow-downs

Now is it just me or does this sound awfully like the Dagor Dagorath? Melkor will return and destroy the Sun and Moon and the Barrow-wight, being evil, would probably have supported the idea of Melkor winning and 'lifting his hand over dead sea and withered land'. Does this mean that the spirit of the Barrow-wight once was a servant of Melkor? But then, how would the Witchking have enough power to control him and trap him in the body of a dead Dúnadan? Sauron himself could not have done it for he had not yet even returned to Dol Guldur and was very weak during the time the Witchking ruled in Angmar.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:59 AM January 03, 2004: Message edited by: nobody ]

Everdawn · 01-03-2004, 04:28 AM

I remember reading somewhere that the Barrow Wights were sent to the Downs by the Witch King of Angmar. Whether they answer to anyone but their master i have no idea.

nobody · 01-03-2004, 05:24 AM

Yes I know that he was sent by the Witchking but what I'm asking is did he serve Melkor once and is he still loyal to him, with the Dagor Dagorath similiarities in his incantation? And, if so, how was the witchking able to control him and trap him in the body of a dead Dúnadan?

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 01-03-2004, 09:29 AM

The [edit] barrow-wights [end edit] served the Witchking, the Witchking served Sauron, and Sauron served morgoth. So the chain of command led up to Morgoth, but the [edit] Barrow-wights [end edit] did not serve him directly.

Plurality added [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 2:03 PM January 03, 2004: Message edited by: Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar ]

Lord of Angmar · 01-03-2004, 10:01 AM

There is not only one Barrow-wight. They are spirits and wraiths of Angmar. I do not think the quote has to do with Melkor and the Dagor Dagorath, but rather with Sauron if he should gain dominion over Middle-earth. The "dark lord" it refers to is almost definitely Sauron, although I am sure that if Morgoth returned the Barrow-wights would happily follow his command.

Finwe · 01-03-2004, 12:28 PM

It sounds remarkably like a description of the Dagor Dagorath, but most probably, the Dark Lord being described is Sauron. Unless, of course, this is another famous case of foreshadowing. (I HATE it when Tolkien does that! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img])

Legolas · 01-03-2004, 03:13 PM

There were no barrow-wights until the Witch-King became what he was - he sent those wights (some of his men) to the Barrow-downs.

Olorin_TLA · 01-03-2004, 03:39 PM

Ah, but since Morgoth's return was foretold, It could very well be reffering to Morgoth, eating the stars, moon, sun, etc, until everything is destoryed.

Lord of Angmar · 01-03-2004, 05:30 PM

I think it is basically implied that it is talking about Sauron as the Dark Lord, since the Witch King of Angmar is solely the servant of the aforementioned, and in all of his wars after he became possessed by one of the Nine, his primary goal was to advance the causes of Sauron. The barrow-wights, then, would seem to have the same focus in mind, and since it was during the time of Sauron's growing power that Tom Bombadil recited this passage about the barrow-wights to the four hobbits (who were on a quest to stop the Dark Lord Sauron), it is only logical to assume that Bombadil was referring to Sauron Gorthaur.

01-03-2004, 04:28 AM	#2
Everdawn Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the sand dunes outside of Ilium, watching it burn. Posts: 1,291	I remember reading somewhere that the Barrow Wights were sent to the Downs by the Witch King of Angmar. Whether they answer to anyone but their master i have no idea. __________________ "Athena, stepping up behind him, visible to no one but Achillies, gripped his red-gold hair. Startled he made a half turn, and he knew her upon the instant for Athena." ~The Iliad~ ~My lord, Éomer~

01-03-2004, 05:24 AM	#3
nobody Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Utumno Posts: 64	Yes I know that he was sent by the Witchking but what I'm asking is did he serve Melkor once and is he still loyal to him, with the Dagor Dagorath similiarities in his incantation? And, if so, how was the witchking able to control him and trap him in the body of a dead Dúnadan? __________________ I am evil

01-03-2004, 09:29 AM	#4
Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Somewhere, wandering in middle earth... Posts: 137	The [edit] barrow-wights [end edit] served the Witchking, the Witchking served Sauron, and Sauron served morgoth. So the chain of command led up to Morgoth, but the [edit] Barrow-wights [end edit] did not serve him directly. Plurality added [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] <font size=1 color=339966>[ 2:03 PM January 03, 2004: Message edited by: Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar ] __________________ Turin Turambar, Master of Fate, by Fate Mastered. No, im not turin. Or tuor. Or anyone. I am not!

01-03-2004, 10:01 AM	#5
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	There is not only one Barrow-wight. They are spirits and wraiths of Angmar. I do not think the quote has to do with Melkor and the Dagor Dagorath, but rather with Sauron if he should gain dominion over Middle-earth. The "dark lord" it refers to is almost definitely Sauron, although I am sure that if Morgoth returned the Barrow-wights would happily follow his command. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

01-03-2004, 12:28 PM	#6
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	It sounds remarkably like a description of the Dagor Dagorath, but most probably, the Dark Lord being described is Sauron. Unless, of course, this is another famous case of foreshadowing. (I HATE it when Tolkien does that! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]) __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

01-03-2004, 03:13 PM	#7
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,850	There were no barrow-wights until the Witch-King became what he was - he sent those wights (some of his men) to the Barrow-downs. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-03-2004, 03:39 PM	#8
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Ah, but since Morgoth's return was foretold, It could very well be reffering to Morgoth, eating the stars, moon, sun, etc, until everything is destoryed. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

01-03-2004, 05:30 PM	#9
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	I think it is basically implied that it is talking about Sauron as the Dark Lord, since the Witch King of Angmar is solely the servant of the aforementioned, and in all of his wars after he became possessed by one of the Nine, his primary goal was to advance the causes of Sauron. The barrow-wights, then, would seem to have the same focus in mind, and since it was during the time of Sauron's growing power that Tom Bombadil recited this passage about the barrow-wights to the four hobbits (who were on a quest to stop the Dark Lord Sauron), it is only logical to assume that Bombadil was referring to Sauron Gorthaur. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.