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Old 11-16-2002, 05:26 AM   #1
Afrodal Fenyar
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Sting Number of Maiar

So, how many Maiar there actually were in Arda? Is anywhere told anything of it? I first thought that there were hundreds, maybe thousands of them, but now that I think again, it would seem more logical if there were less than hundred. It just would suit better.

And other question is; were there more Maiar serving Melkor than the Valar? It seems that Melkor had many Maiar as his servants during his reign of Middle-Earth from Utumno. And the evil is almost always the mightier one, so that would say that Melkor had more. But always when he fought with the Valar, he was defeated.

So that would actually say that the Valar had more, and that there were at least hundreds of Maiar servin them, but bnah.
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Old 11-16-2002, 09:02 AM   #2
Dúnethalath Taurendor
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Sting

The number is unkown, for there were many.
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Old 11-16-2002, 11:42 AM   #3
Legolas
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Sting

Certainly there were amny we never heard of. The only Maiar that turned with Melkor (that we're told of) were Sauron and "the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror." The other Maiar we're told of include Ilmare, Eonwe, Osse, Uinen, Melian, Olorin, Salmar, Arien, Tilion, Curunir, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando. When Tolkien speaks of the council in which the Istari were chosen, they seem to be picked out of a number of people (from Unfinished Tales):

Quote:
...a council of the Valar, summoned it seems by Manwë ("and maybe he called upon Eru for counsel?"), at which it was resolved to send out three emissaries to Middle-earth. "Who would go ? For they must be mighty, peers of Sauron, but must forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men. But this would imperil them, dimming their wisdom and knowledge, and confusing them with fears, cares, and weariness coming from the flesh." But two only came forward: Curumo, who was chosen by Aulë, and Alatar, who was sent by Oromë.
On the matter of millions or thousands vs. hundreds, I don't think we can make that call, although "millions" seems unreasonable to me, at least.

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]
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Old 11-16-2002, 05:02 PM   #4
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Sting

Well, you may be able to find that out from The Silmarillion. It tells all about the beginning of Ea and all the Varda.
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Old 11-17-2002, 03:45 AM   #5
davem
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Speaking of numbers -- The Silmarillion states there were nine major Valar, & Sauron Had nine Nazgul, was this a coincidence, or was Sauron actuallly trying to imitate Illuvatar?
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Old 11-17-2002, 04:06 AM   #6
Dúnethalath Taurendor
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Sting

Sorry, there were 18: nine women and nine men. There were nine nazgul, nine for the fellowship and many more nines. Yes, tolkien had something with nine.

The silmarillion states that the number of maiar is unknown, so you can't find it out. Balrogs for example were maiar too, and nobody knew their number.

I think numbers are important, but less important than other things.

Sauron probably was trying to imitate Eru, as was Morgoth.

Don't you all think that 5 was a major number in tolkien as well:
5 elven-sorts, 5 major powers, the battle of the 5 armies, name it..

[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: Dúnethalath Taurendor ]
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Old 11-17-2002, 07:59 AM   #7
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Sting

You can do that with many numbers..,
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