Did Buckland resist the ruffians like Tookland ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Mouth of Sauron · 06-30-2010, 05:15 AM

We know from "The Scouring of the Shire" that the Tooks resisted Sharkey's ruffians, effectively turning the Tookland into a "no go area" for them.

Would Buckland have resisted in the same way ? The only piece of information we have is Gandalf's statement that the 4 returning hobbits "might even have more trouble at the Buckland Gate than they think".

Lastande Took · 06-30-2010, 02:52 PM

I honestly don't know. I'd like to think the Brandybucks resisted, but if 'Sharkey' entered the Shire through Buckland, they wouln't have had much warning.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 07-13-2010, 01:20 AM

I do believe that at the beginning of the chapter The Scouring of the Shire Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin entered into Buckland, or at least to the Brandywine Bride, which is thereabouts. The gate key was kept by none other than Bill Ferny. The Chief already had his authority there, so I would think that if Buckland did put up a fight that they were not successful. Pippin went out to get hobbits from the Great Smials to fight, but Merry stayed in Bywater from the time they arrived there to the time that the Battle of Bywater ended.

Mnemosyne · 07-13-2010, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

Pippin went out to get hobbits from the Great Smials to fight, but Merry stayed in Bywater from the time they arrived there to the time that the Battle of Bywater ended.

Although, to be fair, Brandy Hall was hardly the fourteen miles from Bywater that Tookland was. Merry couldn't have gotten reinforcements if he tried, and at any rate he ended up making the battle plans so he was needed at Bywater.

Looking at the Shire map, the answer to the question is fairly ambiguous. Yes, the ruffians held the bridge, but Buckland is inherently more defensible than the rest of the Shire, especially if (with the tobacco ties) all the Ruffians entered from the Southfarthing rather than the east. They're sandwiched right in between the Brandywine and the High Hay leading to the Old Forest.

So it's very hard to say. Perhaps some of the smaller homesteads had ruffian trouble, but I think if something disastrous happened to Brandy Hall itself (which was about as large as the Great Smials) it would have been recorded.

Morthoron · 07-13-2010, 08:06 AM

Well, according to the Redbook of Westmarch, the Buckland Hobbits' Front stopped bickering long enough with the Hobbits' Front of Buckland to form the Buckland Defensive League, which is not to be confused with the Defensive League of Buckland, as there were only two members in that group at the time. And honestly, one can't put up much of a defense with two Hobbits.

In any case, Buckland did not exist during the Scouring of the Shire, because Tolkien never mentioned it.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 07-13-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Although, to be fair, Brandy Hall was hardly the fourteen miles from Bywater that Tookland was. Merry couldn't have gotten reinforcements if he tried, and at any rate he ended up making the battle plans so he was needed at Bywater.

Very good point, Mnemo. I overlooked that slightly. I should think that Merry might have mentioned his relatives sometime after they got back to the Shire, though. You usually care about your relatives and home somewhat. . .
The four main hobbits did think about going back to Crickhollow before they realised all of the trouble that the Shire was in. Would that mean that Crickhollow was relatively safe from ruffians?

Of course, if Buckland did have ruffians they would be cornered, wouldn't they? They had the Hedge and the Old Forest on one side, a (getting contaminated) river on the other. How would they get supplies in a ruffian attack? Same question goes for Tuckborough. But I digress.

Lastande Took · 08-06-2010, 03:53 PM

My opinion is that the Brandybucks would have resisted as best they could, but judging from the fact that Men held the gate I'd say they were defeated. It's very possible a few groups managed to hold out - Buckland is a defendable place as has been pointed out.

Ghazi · 08-24-2010, 02:07 PM

Buckland had a gate south of the road near the Brandywine Bridge and was also protected by the Brandywine River along with the Hedge so it is likely that they held out against the ruffians too.

06-30-2010, 05:15 AM	#1
The Mouth of Sauron Wight Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 196	Did Buckland resist the ruffians like Tookland ? We know from "The Scouring of the Shire" that the Tooks resisted Sharkey's ruffians, effectively turning the Tookland into a "no go area" for them. Would Buckland have resisted in the same way ? The only piece of information we have is Gandalf's statement that the 4 returning hobbits "might even have more trouble at the Buckland Gate than they think".

06-30-2010, 02:52 PM	#2
Lastande Took Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2010 Location: The Old Forest of Virginia Posts: 44	I honestly don't know. I'd like to think the Brandybucks resisted, but if 'Sharkey' entered the Shire through Buckland, they wouln't have had much warning. __________________ Tom-fool of a Took! Holmesian.net, the official unofficial home for Sherlock Holmes fanatics.

07-13-2010, 01:20 AM	#3
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,276	I do believe that at the beginning of the chapter The Scouring of the Shire Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin entered into Buckland, or at least to the Brandywine Bride, which is thereabouts. The gate key was kept by none other than Bill Ferny. The Chief already had his authority there, so I would think that if Buckland did put up a fight that they were not successful. Pippin went out to get hobbits from the Great Smials to fight, but Merry stayed in Bywater from the time they arrived there to the time that the Battle of Bywater ended. __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

07-13-2010, 08:06 AM	#5
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,504	Well, according to the Redbook of Westmarch, the Buckland Hobbits' Front stopped bickering long enough with the Hobbits' Front of Buckland to form the Buckland Defensive League, which is not to be confused with the Defensive League of Buckland, as there were only two members in that group at the time. And honestly, one can't put up much of a defense with two Hobbits. In any case, Buckland did not exist during the Scouring of the Shire, because Tolkien never mentioned it. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

08-06-2010, 03:53 PM	#7
Lastande Took Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2010 Location: The Old Forest of Virginia Posts: 44	My opinion is that the Brandybucks would have resisted as best they could, but judging from the fact that Men held the gate I'd say they were defeated. It's very possible a few groups managed to hold out - Buckland is a defendable place as has been pointed out. __________________ Tom-fool of a Took! Holmesian.net, the official unofficial home for Sherlock Holmes fanatics.

08-24-2010, 02:07 PM	#8
Ghazi Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 57	Buckland had a gate south of the road near the Brandywine Bridge and was also protected by the Brandywine River along with the Hedge so it is likely that they held out against the ruffians too.