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Old 05-19-2017, 07:11 AM   #5041
Boromir88
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I'm open ears for some WW ideas and can probably join in a game
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:20 AM   #5042
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Will I do as an "expert"?
Always and Forever!

However, in this context expert should be interpreted to mean "pioneer of a specific game type or mod of the same."

However, I suspect I've gotten as much input from that demographic as I am going to get.

I'll be posting my draft rules...probably tomorrow as today is looking kind of full.

I may do it in this thread to ensure maximum notice of them.
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:37 PM   #5043
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Boots The Draft Rules

Behold my fiendish creation: Dueling Wizards, Deadthread Werewolf!!!! *dun dun dun dun*

What follows is a stripped down version of the draft rules, removing a lot of the usual minutiae, but I fear it is still kind of lengthy.

Wizards
There is a Good Wizard and an Evil Wizard. They are the driving force of much of the game. They are the only two roles that are assigned by me at the start of the game. They cannot be killed by normal means; they must be killed by each other in a Wizard’s Duel (which should be thought of as being pronounced Weeeeezaaard's Duuuuel in a ridiculous high-pitched voice) in which both of them will perish. They will stay in the Dead Thread after death. They have no special ability to communicate across the barrier of death.

The game commences and the Wizards begin their picks on NIGHT 1. Wizards make their selections one at a time. The Evil Wizard and the newly minted werewolf cannot make a kill on NIGHT 1 but the newly minted Gifted can begin performing their function immediately. If the Good Wizard and the Evil Wizard pick the same person (including on NIGHT 1) the picks are both nullified but that is all. The pick target does not die nor are the Wizards made aware of each other’s identity through this action. The picks in this game are limited and do not replenish. Once the number of picks available to each Wizard is expended there are no more.

There is nothing in the rules necessarily saying that the Wizards have to keep their identities a secret, but at some point in the game the other side has to kill them so they should probably keep their identity hush-hush for as long as possible.

Good Wizard – The Good Wizard creates the Hunter, the Ranger, and (at least) one Visitor. The picks do not have to be made strictly sequentially. On NIGHTS when a Gifted is not created the Good Wizard may scry the role of a player. The Good Wizard is informed of the role of the target exactly. If the Good Wizard picks a wolf for converting into a Gifted that pick is deterred but the Good Wizard keeps that pick for future use. It is not lost. If the Good Wizard scrys the Evil Wizard, the Good Wizard is informed of the identity of the Evil Wizard. The Good Wizard is never in direct communication with the Gifteds, nor are the Gifteds ever in communication with each other. The Good Wizard may send messages via the mod while alive to the Gifteds but may not share the Gifted’s identities with each other. This is RPed as dreams so will occur during the NIGHT phase. If a Gifted is killed and the Good Wizard has expended all three picks in creating Gifteds, that Gifted cannot be replaced.

Evil Wizard – The Evil Wizard may pick 3 wolves in total during the NIGHT. The picks do not have to be made strictly sequentially. On NIGHTS when a wolf is not created the Evil Wizard may scry the role of the target in quest of finding the Good Wizard. That is the only information that the Evil Wizard will find out. If the scry target is a Gifted that will not be revealed to the Evil Wizard. If the Evil Wizard picks a Gifted for converting into a wolf that pick is deterred but the Evil Wizard still keeps that pick for future use. It is not lost. If the Evil Wizard scrys the Good Wizard, the Evil Wizard is informed of the identity of the Good Wizard. The Evil Wizard and Wolves are able to PM each other during the NIGHT phase. Their identities are not secret from each other and there are no re-conversions from one side to the other in this game. If a wolf is killed in the game and the Evil Wizard has expended all three picks in creating wolves, that wolf cannot be replaced. The Evil Wizard cannot communicate with the wolves across the barrier of death.

Gifteds
Hunter - Usual Hunter role

Ranger - Usual Ranger role except that unlike other Dead Thread games the Ranger cannot return from the dead. That function is fulfilled by the Visitor(s).

Visitor - The Visitor role is the role that can pass between the Living Thread and the Dead Thread. The Visitor is created by the Good Wizard. Once the Visitor enters the Dead Thread they remain there for a DAY/NIGHT cycle. Then they return to the Living Thread, assuming the game is still ongoing. This is not a Lover role. They are guaranteed to return if the game continues. The Visitor remains in the Living Thread and can vote for one DAY and then returns to the Dead Thread permanently.

I am not sure if the Good Wizard should be able to inadvertently make a wolf a Visitor or if there should be one or two Visitors.

Wolves
Standard wolf pack in almost all respects except for how they are generated.

Winding Up
Those are the roles I have sketched out in my head at the present. Due to the powers of the Good Wizard I am skeptical of including a Seer in this game. It seems redundant and I think biases the game against the wolves too much.

The reason why I don't plan to allow reconversions, am keeping the number of picks limited in this game, and am allowing the Bad side to know each others identities is that I'm expecting this to be a rather low population game. These latter days we struggle to get many people to sign up for games and I want to make it workable for a smaller group. I'm not necessarily wedded to the specific numbers yet. I'm also not certain if there should be one or two Visitors. If there is the chance for the GW to pick a wolf as a Visitor then I think there needs to be two Visitors.

If we suddenly get a rush of sign ups and it looks like the population might be higher than I anticipate I might change some of the above.

Comments? Criticisms?

EDIT Forgot to mention that the Dead Thread will function the same way as the last Dead Thread game as far as vote empowerment etc.

Last edited by Kuruharan; 05-20-2017 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:23 PM   #5044
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I've never played a Dueling Wizards game before, so I don't have comments or anything, but I'm definitely excited! Also, is the hunter logical or non-logical? Can't wait!
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:43 PM   #5045
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Oooh! Exciting!


I've technically played in one Duelling Wizards game, but I died very early. Still, here are some suggestions/comments:

1. I agree the Seer is redundant.

2. Not sure about the Visitor. I like the idea of keeping some uncertainty about the role's alignment, i.e. a possible wolf- and yes, in that case there should be two. Even so, it sounds like the sort of role that can skew a game rather easily, so needs careful implementation.

3. What, to you, is the "usual Hunter role"? Logical or non-logical? Similarly, what are the rules for Ranger protections?

4. Are roles normally revealed on death? Or is this like other games with a Dead Thread in that respect?
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:27 AM   #5046
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Also, is the hunter logical or non-logical? Can't wait!
-and-

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3. What, to you, is the "usual Hunter role"? Logical or non-logical? Similarly, what are the rules for Ranger protections?
To me the "usual hunters" are as illogical as possible. Probably because of a hazy and scarring memory from the distant past where as a Hunter I accidently took out the Seer or something...I don't remember exactly what my blunder was...I just remember it being baaaaad.

As for the Ranger: can't protect the same target twice in a row but can protect the same target multiple times, so theoretically could protect the same person every other NIGHT over and over again.

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2. Not sure about the Visitor. I like the idea of keeping some uncertainty about the role's alignment, i.e. a possible wolf- and yes, in that case there should be two. Even so, it sounds like the sort of role that can skew a game rather easily, so needs careful implementation.
I know. That is the problem.

I don't want to set up a situation via the rules where one decision by one individual basically wins the game for one side and having only one Visitor could do that. While having two Visitors would dilute the power a bit it would add to the number of players needed for the game.

Basically we need to ask ourselves, what would the phantom do to break the game to turn it in his favor depending on what side he was on.

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4. Are roles normally revealed on death? Or is this like other games with a Dead Thread in that respect?
No, roles would not be revealed on death. The only way for the "General Public" to find out a role for sure is in the dead thread during the NIGHTly reveal vote.

My calculations (which might be horribly wrong) say that we need a minimum of 13-15 players to make this work...more would be awesome.

So start working Facebook, everybody!
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:41 PM   #5047
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Basically we need to ask ourselves, what would*the phantom*do to break the game to turn it in his favor depending on what side he was on.
It would definitely involve a disregard for the intended twist of the game, a very convincing false reveal, and annoying the pants off of half the village.
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:07 AM   #5048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuru
Basically we need to ask ourselves, what would*the phantom*do to break the game to turn it in his favor depending on what side he was on.
This should be framed and hung on the wall of every mod planning an experimental game.
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:11 AM   #5049
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Another clarification request- how does the Visitor enter the Dead Thread in the first place? Only by being lynched or killed? Or is there a voluntary option?
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Old 05-23-2017, 06:35 AM   #5050
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Do we feel like making another attempt at recruiting those highbrow types from their ivory tower in the Books forum?
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Old 05-23-2017, 08:30 AM   #5051
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Another clarification request- how does the Visitor enter the Dead Thread in the first place? Only by being lynched or killed? Or is there a voluntary option?
Ahh...you noticed my ambiguity on that point.

I haven't completely decided.

I am, however, open to opinions.

It does seem a little odd to my mind to pick a Visitor and then try to kill them, but at the same time in the other Dead Thread games the special people in question also had to be killed. The difference this time is the Good Wizard would be deliberately picking a Visitor.

This also brings up the question of do I tell the Visitor that they have been picked as such. We must bring Nilp out of retirement. This could be a role where he could really shine.

Of course for him at this point it is a little bit of been there done that.
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Old 05-23-2017, 09:56 AM   #5052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuruharan View Post
Ahh...you noticed my ambiguity on that point.

I haven't completely decided.

I am, however, open to opinions.

It does seem a little odd to my mind to pick a Visitor and then try to kill them, but at the same time in the other Dead Thread games the special people in question also had to be killed. The difference this time is the Good Wizard would be deliberately picking a Visitor.

This also brings up the question of do I tell the Visitor that they have been picked as such. We must bring Nilp out of retirement. This could be a role where he could really shine.

Of course for him at this point it is a little bit of been there done that.
This actually made me laugh out loud for ages, like a lunatic.. Lucky there's no-one else home.
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:19 PM   #5053
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Perhaps a compromise...one Visitor goes into the Dead Thread at the start of the next DAY and the other Visitor has to be killed?

That might spice up the tactical options a bit.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:29 PM   #5054
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Perhaps a compromise...one Visitor goes into the Dead Thread at the start of the next DAY and the other Visitor has to be killed?

That might spice up the tactical options a bit.
For some reason (idiocy, probably) I read this as a sort of conditional statement- "If Visitor #1 goes into the Dead Thread then Visitor #2 has to be killed [the Day after]", but you just mean their roles work differently, right?
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:34 AM   #5055
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So, about the setting- do you have anything in mind?
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:36 AM   #5056
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For some reason (idiocy, probably) I read this as a sort of conditional statement- "If Visitor #1 goes into the Dead Thread then Visitor #2 has to be killed [the Day after]", but you just mean their roles work differently, right?
Yes, roles that work differently.

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So, about the setting- do you have anything in mind?
I was sort of thinking a setting of I invite everybody back to my place to make amends for forcing them to watch that horrible movie last time. There's no way that could go wrong...right?

Do you have a suggestion?

I will probably post a sign-up thread this weekend and see if we have enough interest to actually get this thing off the ground.
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Old 05-27-2017, 02:35 AM   #5057
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Yes, roles that work differently.



I was sort of thinking a setting of I invite everybody back to my place to make amends for forcing them to watch that horrible movie last time. There's no way that could go wrong...right?

Do you have a suggestion?
Well, generally I prefer Middle-earth settings for these games, but that's just me. I could wander off and try to come up with a specific one if you like, though. Of course by now everything has been probably been done before at least once, though...
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Old 05-27-2017, 04:36 AM   #5058
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Pipe

Let's see... in no particular order, we've set them in the Shire (several times- we seem to find the notion of Hobbit bloodbaths strangely poignant), in Rohan, in Gondolin, in Minas Tirith, in Lorien, in Valinor(!), among the Woodmen, among the Rangers, on Amon Rudh, in Bree, in Numenor (several times), in Belfalas, in Harad, in Lorien, in Brethil, among the Lossoth (the first Duelling Wizards), among the Wargs, among the Trolls, on the Helcaraxe, in Beorn's house, in Tom Bombadil's house, on the actual Barrowdowns, among the Corsairs (repeatedly- arrr, we like to be pirates, me hearties!), in Angband, in Utumno, on Ard-Galen (the first Dead Thread game), in Hithlum, in Ossiriand, in Erebor, in Laketown, in Shelob's lair, in Ithilien, in the Misty Mountains, under the Misty Mountains (in which we were Orcs and oddly enough the game ended in a bloody massacre of the entire village- ya hoi!), in Tol-in-Gaurhoth itself (twice) and there was even an alternate history one wherein Saruman returned to the light and somehow persuaded the Council to form an entirely different Fellowship including Uglúk!

Well, revisiting all these past glories has occupied a rainy evening for me, but it does show the difficulty of finding an unused Middle-earth setting.

However, there are a few notable locations that don't seem to have been used yet, including, oddly enough, Rivendell. You could perhaps do something with that. Eregion at the time of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain also strikes me as having potential for a Duelling Wizards game, and then there are still some vacant- as it were- First Age settings, including Doriath and Nargothrond. Also I don't think there's been one set in Thranduil's halls, or in Fangorn (though perhaps that's for the best, given what dedicated roleplayers we all are- Day One alone could take weeks).

Anyway, it's your game, so feel free to use these suggestions or not as you like. As I said, it's been fun looking up these old threads anyway.
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Old 05-28-2017, 03:14 PM   #5059
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Well, generally I prefer Middle-earth settings for these games
My place is in Middle-earth.
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Old 05-28-2017, 05:06 PM   #5060
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Boots Dueling Wizards III

I have created the admin thread for Dueling Wizards III here.

Everyone who said they wanted to sign up for this game please affirm that in the other thread.

Also, please continue any rules discussion in that thread.
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Old 05-28-2017, 05:36 PM   #5061
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My place is in Middle-earth.
So were we watching this movie of which you speak on your palantir? Or perhaps on the Morgul™ Home Entertainment System?
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Old 05-28-2017, 06:59 PM   #5062
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So were we watching this movie of which you speak on your palantir? Or perhaps on the Morgul™ Home Entertainment System?
I am a trader of wide contacts...
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:40 AM   #5063
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White-Hand Announcement

Since sign ups have been so slow, I am setting a deadline of June 24 to assemble enough players to start my game.

We are only short two players so if we get them we can begin.
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:06 AM   #5064
Galadriel55
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Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Played Mafia with a few friends face-to-face for the first time since starting to play Werewolf. Those guys have the worst Day Ones, they just go straight to random voting without any preamble. No bluffs or double bluffs. No fake reveals. No reverse psychology. No wolf-on-wolf (a fellow mafia was very panicked and confused when I sent some harmless suspicion their way). Suspicion is based on whether the person was innocent or not in the previous game. Gifteds can't hint, and ordos don't watch for hints coming their way. Ahhh, the poor sweet summer children. They didn't have the Downs to teach them.
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- These taxes, they are like sacrifices to tribal gods?
- Well, roughly speaking, but paying taxes is more painful.
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:16 AM   #5065
Kuruharan
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Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Send them our way.

We will train them up.
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