Werewolf XLVI: Getting Back to Basics

[Meneltarmacil]

Welcome to the 46th game of Barrow-Downs Werewolf!

This game takes place in the pleasant village of Spruceburg, a small town on the Anduin River, and now an unfortunate target of some rather horrible beasts.

Players:

Aganzir (Cobbler)
Gwathagor (Lawyer)
Kath (Turtle Herder)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Frog Hermit)
Lhunardawen (Pinecone Collector)
Meneltarmacil (Dairy Farmer)
Mithalwen (Lumberjack)
Nerwen (Veterinarian)
Nogrod (Ale-Barrel Salesman)
Oddwen (Maker of Naughty Pine Furniture)
satansaloser2005 (Therapist)
The Elf-warrior (Poetaster)
Thinlomien (Mad Hatter)
Volo (Explorer)

It is now Night One. Wolves may PM, but can't choose a kill. Any gifteds present who have reason to give me names, please do so. Villagers, please refrain from posting.

EDIT: Psst... You'll need to be in Invisible Mode.

[Meneltarmacil]

It was a beautiful spring morning in the village of Spruceburg. There wasn't a single cloud in the sky, and the sun shone brightly through the pine trees.

The villagers were going about their normal routine that day.

Sally was trying to help Lommy with the latter's mental issues, but judging by the manaical cackling, things weren't going too well.

The Elf-warrior attempted to share his poetry with the village, but all he got were pinecones and shoes thrown at him by Lhunardawen and Aganzir respectively.

Mithalwen was delivering some freshly-cut logs to Oddwen to be made into furniture, but cringed to see what naughty things the furniture was up to.

Gwathagor tried to sue Nogrod for "causing riotous disturbances" due to his rather strong ale; however, the latter was too drunk to notice.

Kath was bringing her turtles to market, having started off last night due to the slowness of the task.

A surprised Legate of Amon Lanc charged into town from the woods, pursued by Volo, who had mistaken him for Bigfoot.

At that point, there was a scream from Meneltarmacil's farm. Everyone rushed to the scene, where they found a distressed Nerwen.

"I... I just came out to check on the cows, Menel said there was a problem with the milk... but..." She pointed in the direction of Menel's house, which had a large hole in the roof.

The villagers went inside, where a gruesome sight greeted their eyes. Meneltarmacil lay on the floor beneath the hole, and a cow lay on top of his crushed form.

Volo was the first to notice the signs of the culprits.

"See these tracks around the body?" he said. "Werewolves, I'm pretty sure of it. We've got some serious trouble on our hands."

Alive:
Aganzir
Gwathagor
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Lhunardawen
Mithalwen
Nerwen
Nogrod
Oddwen
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior
Thinlomien
Volo

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Crushed under falling cow by Wolves on Night 1.

Day 1 has started. Wolves, stop PMing. Villagers, you may begin posting.

[Mithalwen]

No one else around or just not wanting to make themselves conspicuous by posting first?

Nothing to say when someone is crushed by a falling cow? Are you sure it was werewolves sounds more like French Guards to me - mistaking him for a silly English Knnnnnigget; probably told him that his mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries first then launched the cow from the castle...

*looks around* .... ok no castle.... well maybe if they got a lot of swallows - a really huge number of swallows - African of course not European supported the cow on strands of creeper held under the dorsal guiding feathers....

It's a simple question of weight ratios! Weight ratios and air speed velocity!

Weight rations, air speed velocity. migratory patterns and anachronism....

I'll come in again.


OK werewolves might be more likely....

Shall we lynch Aganzir for being the cobbler? Or can I just have pointless revenge on Nerwen and Nogrod for something that happened in a previous life?

[Volo]

"I've seen bigger cows! For example the Golden Brown Cow of the Albatro City. Now that was a beast! But don't go near this one either, it's still aliv- Hey, Bungo! Don't eat that!"

But for no avail. Volo's gorilla ran up to the cow and a fight began between them. Volo who was between the two got all the blood and guts onto himself. Then, surprise surprise, the gorilla strangled the cow and started munching at its hooves.

"Thanks a lot, Bungo..."

[Thinlómien]

*Thinlómien casts a critical look at Mithalwen and Volo, but cannot help looking amused.*

Okay, well, the start of Day1, how I've missed thee... Maybe I'll enjoy it this time. I almost promised I'd write Nogrod something he can jump at when I hand the keyboard to him. Hmmm...

Well, I can say I'm quite looking forward to this - we have a bunch of great people here, including The Elf-Warrior with whom I've never played (if memory serves) and Oddwen and Lhuna with whom I've last played a long time ago, and Kath my ex-semi-nemesis who has been having a pause for a while too.

And I could second Mith's motion for lynching Agan - for she's one to confuse me, for sure.

Well, that really wasn't much. I should improve my small talk skills. Oh, and if anyone wants some tea, just ask me...

[Mithalwen]

I'll have tea if you promise you'll take the dormouse out of the pot....

Indian , no milk no sugar please.
Ok so we have tea and the making of a substantial barbecue but to get oc for a moment we have to take this a bit seriously. Thirteen of us means that the classic 3 wolves is likely, we don't know if we have any gifted and not knowing can be worse than knowing we definitely haven't got any. At least we won't get any "I'm the seer and so's my wife" kind of claims.


Not much scope for going wrong... so talk.... please? Pretty please?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Now now, my friends, let's not make a mess of it," the frog hermit made himself a way through the onlookers and overlooked the crime scene, now somewhat changed. "It's no doubt these were were were, were, what did I say, wolves. I wonder how, I wonder why, yesterday you told me 'bout the blue... erm, sorry again. Oh yes. I was just thinking now, I know from my experience and also from gossip that werewolves usually cooperate in packs. In packs of three, usually. That's not much, as one medic friend of mine used to say, pack of three is not even enough to play poker with. But this time, we may have a pack of three or also pack of two, or even pack of three with one as bonus when you buy two packs. Or that's how they do that in the shops. All right, what was the point? That we don't know how many werewolves we have here, don't we? Actually, it doesn't matter - as soon as we keep catching them."

"Now, if you'll excuse me. I think it's not already the time to call my frogs in, we don't need reinforcements yet, do we? We can manage it on our own. I am going to let the frogs where they are. As today passes, I hope to collect some data... about all of you folks, of course..."

EDIT: x-ed with Mith

[Nogrod]

Tea? Why bother with tea when we have ale... well sort of... we should have beer... anyone?... I mean I have the barrels... prime quality... anyone wishing to fill them? *Hickup*

Flying French cows, Godzillas, weight-ratios of swallows, confusing characters, lawyers suing... A moment ago I thought I was sober from yesterday but now I'm not so sure anymore...

But our lumberjack makes a pint indeed, ... sorry... a point indeed. We don't know of the gifteds. But with the outcome of her reasoning I would differ a bit. *Hick* I mean if we don't know our ranks then anyone can pose as anyone so "I'm the seer and so's my wife" looks more like forthcoming than not. Now the question remains to be asked whether she tried to sidetrack us from the very beginning in purpose or whether she just didn't think that one to thew end...

Also let's not let this piece of doubt cloud our vision either. It would be the most disasterous if we ignored the calls of our gifteds because of it.

EDIT: X'd with Legate

[Gwathagor]

I hate first days. First days are rubbish.

I'll come back later and post, after people have chatted a while. I never was one for the small talk; it always sounds unnatural coming from me. Then people get suspicious, and next thing you know I've got a rope around my neck.

Later.

[Aganzir]

So, who wants to buy shoes? High heels! Leather boots! And in case you're interested, I also make other leather goods. Belts! Gloves! Whips! Come one, come all! Brand new shoes will make all your dreams come true!

If only poor Menel had worn shoes made by me, he would still be alive. I made him cowboy boots once but seemingly he never used them... No cow would have dared to crush him if he had been wearing those!

Despite my underrated occupation, I suggest not to lynch me as you won't get pretty new shoes otherwise. Besides, I'm always sweet and innocent.
I agree with Mith that it sounds more like French Guards were doing the killing, so maybe we should start by lynching everyone who can speak French. And how come those two who suggested lynching me know French? Therefore Lommy and Mith must be guilty.

Oh, and some Darjeeling for me, please, Lommy dear.

edit: xed with Gwathy

[Mithalwen]

"Des fouettes eh? C'est interressant mais je dois dire que je ne suis pas louve-garoue. Et on peut parler Francais sans etre Francais ...."

I say that statistically it is almost certain that someone from the Finnish quarter of Pineburg is a wolf.... but I see I am cross posting...

Je reviens...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But our lumberjack makes a pint indeed, ... sorry... a point indeed. We don't know of the gifteds. But with the outcome of her reasoning I would differ a bit. *Hick* I mean if we don't know our ranks then anyone can pose as anyone so "I'm the seer and so's my wife" looks more like forthcoming than not. Now the question remains to be asked whether she tried to sidetrack us from the very beginning in purpose or whether she just didn't think that one to thew end...

A simple tense related typo.. I should have said "at least we wouldn't get "I'm the seer and so's my wife" claims ... which makes far more sense in the context. I am not trying to side track just a bit weary....

[Thinlómien]

Darjeeling tea for Agan darling? How perfect. Dormouse? I assure you Mith there's no such in my pot... But yes, here's an Indian with no sugar. I always liked eating.. err... drinking... native peoples ... err nothing, never mind.

As for the roles, I think we have three wolves, one seer, one ranger and one hunter - after all, it was said this is a basic game. But it's quite useless to speculate on this at great lengths since we cannot know.

I hate first days. First days are rubbish.

That was very constructive and cheery - even for a lawyer.

I agree with Mith that it sounds more like French Guards were doing the killing, so maybe we should start by lynching everyone who can speak French. And how come those two who suggested lynching me know French? Therefore Lommy and Mith must be guilty.

Mais je ne peux pas parler francais! I mean... umm... I cannot speak French.

I say that statistically it is almost certain that someone from the Finnish quarter of Pineburg is a wolf.... but I see I am cross posting...

Oh, how I love statistics. Also, statistically speaking, it is also quite porbable that one of those whose name begins with M or N is a wolf. Volunteers for a lynch? Dear Mithie *ducks missiles for using such a nickname* what, may I ask, was the point in that comment?

[Mithalwen]

Milk is the main issue - milk is murder.... beef however is justifiable cow-icide. Or in this case, garbage disposable...... I do think a barbecue would be a good idea. China tea tastes like it has been made with charcoal by the way.... so while I prefer a blend, Darjeeling will be fine.

Oh I was just building a case against Agan Cobbler, Finnish, rather to strident in her Francophobia..... it all adds up....

[Nogrod]

Ahh, mais mes cheries! Ce n'est pas si simple comme nous voulons de se representer... mais... erm... nous oublions c'est ca? Bien... Mais êtes-vous certains s'il n'était pas un mouton volant qui a justement se camouflé de vache?

The first red lights though have alighted...

Originally Posted by Gwath

I'll come back later and post, after people have chatted a while.I never was one for the small talk; it always sounds unnatural coming from me. Then people get suspicious, and next thing you know I've got a rope around my neck.

If something sounds wolvish then this... and what do you need lawyers for anyway?

But Mith's way of backtracking her words should be notified as well.

And the statistical arguments then? Those can be made - and they can bite. Like we might say that it's probable that now as 7 people (half of us) have talked at least one or two wolves have meddled in the discussion. That I'd say is a reasonable deduction. Sadly the reasonableness of the conclusion is straight in line with the uninformativeness of the end result.

But whether from all those in the game an X number of left-handers or brown-eyed will be wolves I'm not so sure anymore. From the four Finns one might be a wolf - as well as from the four Americans one might be - or anyone from those not being Finns or Americans can be a wolf... Which doesn't mean I wouldn't be ready to suspect Agan as well as you do. She's just too sneaky to be true. Everytime. And I know that and thence I suspect her everytime which is good in a sense but also may backfire badly - as has been seen as well...

What I mean is that without making even a slightly justified case for your choice of the statistical groups these kind of arguments are just sham or only statistics.

The question remains, whether you Mith just wish to look good by making these statistical arguments or whether it's a deliberate trial to turn our attention away from certain people... or towards some others. Or whether you just have nothing else to go for - and I do appreaciate your early-Day activity. Without people like you we could never get forwards.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh my, if anyone's behaving like a Cobbler here, then it's... everyone... I have never seen such a crazy Day 1! Or is it the late hour?

But really now, what to talk about? La-di-dah... I don't think we should bother with trying to discover which gifted (if any) we have here, since this was brought forward. What else? Let's wait what others write. Should I bring something else forward?

I don't like Mith's activity combined with her behavior. But whatever. She and Nogrod are the Wolves, of course. Now I am speaking out my honest gut feelings. They are trying to confuse us and all, and making it seem like they have nothing in common with each other. Which of course would be very silly thing to do in this time. So they actually are not together. So it's just Mith. Or just Nog. But one of them sure is. And I should go to sleep.

No, actually, I don't think they are now that I read it again. I should really go to sleep.

(I think this would cause enough controversy for the good of this game. I should play in late hours more often. Good night.)

EDIT: x-ed with Noggins Woggins. Baggins. Shire...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Noggins actually speaks sense! He speaks very well. I just hope he does not use snake tongue, like one of my friends once did. But I would like to hope not, and I think he does not.

But now I'm really going to sleep. And please stop speaking French - il est vraiment possible que plusieurs hommes ne comprennent pas, so please stop that, dattebayo!

[Thinlómien]

I find it hilarious that Legate complains about everybody being crazy and acting like cobblers and then does both of those things himself - more than anyone else this far. If he's deliberatedly being confusing, I don't like it. If his brain is not functioning properly at this hour, he should go to sleep like himself suggested. And if he is just trying to be amusing, he's succeeding in that very well. (Erm... this might be Lommy-flip-flopping for you, anyone?)

But actually he makes a valid point about Nog and Mith interacting a bit weirdly - while not seeing the latest evidence because he's cross-posting with it! Should I conclude something from it? Is this a fishy pre-arranged wolf scheme? If so, it looks so pretty darn obvious and silly that he, Nog and Mith would probably not come up with such. Unless they want to double bluff.

Yes, this is utterly crazy. And sleep wouldn't be bad for me either, I guess - but I'm just not tired at the moment. Anyway, I have a feeling that this discussion is getting rolling (if not in very wise or well-defined directions though), and it's good.


edit: xed with Legate - I see he started speaking French too. Where is Nerwen to speak some more French? And where are the other French speakers?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I find it hilarious that Legate complains about everybody being crazy and acting like cobblers and then does both of those things himself - more than anyone else this far. If he's deliberatedly being confusing, I don't like it. If his brain is not functioning properly at this hour, he should go to sleep like himself suggested. And if he is just trying to be amusing, he's succeeding in that very well. (Erm... this might be Lommy-flip-flopping for you, anyone?)

Oh no no no, this is NOT Lommy flip-flopping! Lommy flip-flopping looks different! This looks more like an attempt to make a "construct Lommy-flip-flopping". And now you are clinging upon what suspicions have been raised by pondering them, but of course not being bold enough to stand behind them really - just raising more concern around the already mentioned things. And saying "this might be Lommy-flip-flopping" is really the last thing by which you try to make an excuse for yourself. But on second reading, it's not that bad. And I really am not acting normally for myself, really, now reading what I wrote just a short while ago. But that's the hour - it's letting me give out my usual carefulness of approach. But at least my conscience is clean. Or as far as I can tell. Let's really go to sleep for now.

Hm. Lommy looks innocent, actually. The more I read it. Just wait when I sleep on it, what I'll have to say about it. Not sure if I'm gonna be here in the early hours of tomorrow, meaning my tomorrow, like about 10 hours from now, it's most probable that I'll be back only some 15 or so hours from now. But that'll be still plenty time. Good night, folks. And this time really. Hopefully. Indeed. Sorry for the long rant. I should stop playing when being awake late at night.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, short summary till now (and I think mostly in reasonable state, as much as it's possible now):

Mith - veery suspicious
Lommy - quite good
Nog - wise and okay

others - not enough data

*crawls into a giant toad's mouth and falls asleep*

[Oddwen]

Hi. Oh my, I am just itching to get away from my stupid furniture because I don't understand it and it makes me uncomfortable inside wah wah poor Menel is that enough obligatory roleplay.

"Birdie birdie in the sky, drop some white stuff in my eye
Me don't wonder, me don't cry
I'm just glad that cows don't fly!"

COWS!

I also am not a fan of first Days. Nothing. To. Say. Yet.

I will, however, take some herbal tea if you've any.

[Lhunardawen]

Oh Day Ones, how I missed thee indeed...

Not.

Legate, believe me, there ARE crazier Day 1s. But thanks for contributing your share of the craziness.

So. Thirteen people. Yes, this could very well be a rather ordinary game, having the usual special people in their usual number/s, but knowing the mod god, I'm sure there will be a twist here somewhere... I realise that wasn't very helpful. How can anyone say anything of importance this early?

Maybe we should just lynch the French speakers one-by-one, who knows if they're not actually doing their Night planning right under our very noses this morning?

[Nogrod]

Oddwen just sprang to share the top my list this far. One can hate Day1's to be sure but to make it an excuse like Gwath did earlier just makes me ready to pull my voting-trigger...

Legate sounds like he has enjoyed more of the good life than is encouraged by the state authorities... which makes him look more innocentish than not this far.

Lommy sounds reasonable and good... and that's just the problem with her. She could sound like that were she a wolf. But for the time being I'm not wishing to vote for her as there will be people less helpful in this game as well...

EDIT: X'd with Lhuna - you're making it to the same group with Oddwen and Gwath...

[Lhunardawen]

Mith
- first to post, should speak in her favour
- incriminates herself by using Physics terms, but redeems herself with "migratory patterns" and "anachronism"
- thinks there could be 3 wolves, and no one could claim to be gifted
- wants people to talk
- thinks there could be a Finnish wolf, statistically
- rather innocent, in my opinion

Noggie
- thinks anyone can pose as anyone, and suspects Mith of either sidetracking or not thinking about the gifted issue enough
- suspects Gwath's first post as wolvish, and Mith's backtracking of words
- again suspects Mith's statistical arguments, but appreciates her activity
- puts Oddwen and Lhuna at the top of his list for the same reason as Gwath
- thinks Legate innocentish
- Lommy confuses him
- either a sneaky wolf or a trigger-happy innocent

More to come.

[Lhunardawen]

Lommy
- expresses excitement and names a few people who partly cause it
- thinks this is a basic game with three wolves, one Hunter, one Ranger, one Seer
- cannot speak French
- thinks it quite statistically probable that one wolf's name starts with M or N
- asks "Mithie" for her point in her statistical argument - guilty Finn?
- thinks Legate either crazy, confusing, or cranially challenged (for need of sleep)
- presents self for flipflopping
- confused with the Legate-Noggie-Mith trio
- looks for other French speakers
- Lommy

Legate
- thinks everyone is a Cobbler
- creates controversy concerning Mith and Noggie
- seriously needs sleep
- think Noggie speaks very well, but hopes he isn't like Orochimaru
- has a clean conscience (or so he claims)
- thinks Lommy is innocent
- must stop playing when awake late at night
- must continue to if he wants to hold on to his craziest villager status
- sleeps inside Gamabunta's mouth
- bored innocent or wolf setting up an insanity defence

[Lhunardawen]

As for the others, Volo is a lost explorer, Agan is sweet and innocent (or so she claims), Gwath is a guilty lawyer and is likely to ignore Legate's plea for insanity, and Oddwen is crazy and innocent.

So my pine cones tell me.

But if everyone's just going to keep silent, I might as well go about my own business. See you all later.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Oddwen just sprang to share the top my list this far. One can hate Day1's to be sure but to make it an excuse like Gwath did earlier just makes me ready to pull my voting-trigger...

Now look...I feel the same way about Oddwen's post, as she is just mimicking me and I think a couple others (?). That looks suspicious because repeating someone else is such an obviously safe move. However, Nogrod, you were awfully quick to identify my post as "wolvish"? You took no convincing whatsoever, so either you are trigger-happy and innocent, as Lhun said, or you really do know whether I am innocent or guilty. And THAT looks suspicious, because the only way you could know that is if you are a wolf yourself. I lean towards trigger-happy innocent, based on the sheer quirkiness and irrationality of your attack on my first post - if there's anything a wolf cannot afford to be, it is irrational. Or so my vast experience of Three Whole Games would lead me to believe. But don't give me reason to think otherwise.

I like Lhuna's clear lists - those are very helpful, as long as she limits herself to facts and not value judgments (as if such a distinction exists!).

There is a high level of goofiness in this village right now, and I am not sure whether to praise or condemn it. On the one hand, humor can be used to obscure the true nature of things. On the other hand, of course, it may also sometimes express greater truth because humorous statements are spoken by our most relaxed and natural selves. Of course, humor and silliness requires a bit of deciphering, sooo I suppose I am undecided.

Maybe everyone will settle down tomorrow.

Legate, as always, is reasonable and impenetrable. I never know what to make of him, but I don't like his "honest gut feelings." It's too easy a basis for suspicion, and requires no actual evidence. However, his other posts don't depend on "honest gut feelings", so maybe he's alright. MAYBE. We'll see.

[Nerwen]

Oh, hello, everyone. Judging from the conversation so far, and drawing on my vast knowledge of veterinary practice, I'm inclined to think that our poor, poor village may be afflicted with more than just lycanthropy.

Can it be that we have not just werewolves, but rabid werewolves to deal with? Or, worse still, do we have a general outbreak of hydrophobia?

Please, come to my hut-veterinary clinic and I'll give you all a full examination.

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Oddwen just sprang to share the top my list this far. One can hate Day1's to be sure but to make it an excuse like Gwath did earlier just makes me ready to pull my voting-trigger...

An excuse for what? Posting at all?

Originally Posted by also Nogrod

EDIT: X'd with Lhuna - you're making it to the same group with Oddwen and Gwath...

Seems hasty to me.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Please, come to my hut-veterinary clinic and I'll give you all a full examination.

If only it were that easy...

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Gwath

Now look...I feel the same way about Oddwen's post, as she is just mimicking me and I think a couple others (?). That looks suspicious because repeating someone else is such an obviously safe move.

I wasn't aware I was repeating. I wasn't aware I was repeating. I wasn't aware I was repeating.

*hem*

[Volo]

This is a protest only against bonus real life time. Wouldn't it be great to be able to add a half-an-hour here and there. One could even read what people have said. :/

++Volo

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good morning all!

So, what did happen here:

Lhuna
- makes lists
- this way, some of her real thoughts or aims may remain hidden
- and so I can't say much about her right now.


Gwathy makes me feel a little uneasy by his post, but on the other hand...

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I like Lhuna's clear lists - those are very helpful, as long as she limits herself to facts and not value judgments (as if such a distinction exists!).

This is okay, as it occured to me too, that Lhuna's lists are very much indeed just statement of fact and not much own opinion, but the same as he says, nothing in just "statement of fact" and in everything there are some own thoughts projected, if even a little, and so even these "statements" may be twisted by Lhuna to fit her purposes. Or simply her own interpretation of things if she is innocent.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Legate, as always, is reasonable and impenetrable. I never know what to make of him, but I don't like his "honest gut feelings." It's too easy a basis for suspicion, and requires no actual evidence. However, his other posts don't depend on "honest gut feelings", so maybe he's alright. MAYBE. We'll see.

I would really like to see what looks reasonable about my yesterday's posts... are you trying to simply fit into the wolvish pattern and thus afraid of presenting your real opinion, Gwathagor-san?

But overall, it's not that bad with Gwath. He's in the yellow zone for me (that's next to the green zone, which is okay). Gwathwolf used to be worse as far as I could tell from an observer-point.

In short: As you may have noticed, those who stay in shadows and say nothing are likely not to be examined by me at all. What does that mean? That everyone should speak to the matter! (Yes, someone had to say it )

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But Mith's way of backtracking her words should be notified as well.

And the statistical arguments then? Those can be made - and they can bite. Like we might say that it's probable that now as 7 people (half of us) have talked at least one or two wolves have meddled in the discussion. That I'd say is a reasonable deduction. Sadly the reasonableness of the conclusion is straight in line with the uninformativeness of the end result.

But whether from all those in the game an X number of left-handers or brown-eyed will be wolves I'm not so sure anymore. From the four Finns one might be a wolf - as well as from the four Americans one might be - or anyone from those not being Finns or Americans can be a wolf... Which doesn't mean I wouldn't be ready to suspect Agan as well as you do. She's just too sneaky to be true. Everytime. And I know that and thence I suspect her everytime which is good in a sense but also may backfire badly - as has been seen as well...

What I mean is that without making even a slightly justified case for your choice of the statistical groups these kind of arguments are just sham or only statistics.

The question remains, whether you Mith just wish to look good by making these statistical arguments or whether it's a deliberate trial to turn our attention away from certain people... or towards some others. Or whether you just have nothing else to go for - and I do appreaciate your early-Day activity. Without people like you we could never get forwards.

Oh Nogrod you really don't know me at all.....

Teh thing about the gifted was just that in the "no edit" environment of a WW game when I checked over my post I was still reading what was in my mind not the page and didn't realise I hadn't posted what I meant. Had I been a wolf I would have perhaps been more cautious.

Teh simple fact is that this is the first game for a long moon that I have joined completely of my own free will because I can probably participate to a level I find satisfactory, it claims to be a nice basic game (which Miss Thinlomien could mean no gifted or just a seer as in WW1). So I decided to enjoy myself.

As an ordo the best service I can do Monsieur Nogrod is to be la rabouilleuse - that is the woman who stirs up the mud in the stream to send the little fishes into the waiting nets. If I can have fun on the way so be it. Yes it is dangerous to do such a thing ... makes you an easy target. But it would be the wrong one. There is nothing else to do on day one especially if you post early but talk nonsense really but if my gibberish has meant there is something for after comers to discuss. I am content.

[Thinlómien]

What is wrong with this village?

Especially Gwath and Legate:

Originally Posted by Legate

This is okay, as it occured to me too, that Lhuna's lists are very much indeed just statement of fact and not much own opinion, but the same as he says, nothing in just "statement of fact" and in everything there are some own thoughts projected, if even a little, and so even these "statements" may be twisted by Lhuna to fit her purposes. Or simply her own interpretation of things if she is innocent.

What? So Lhuna's lists are "clear" and "helpful" and "statement of fact and not much own opinion" and she "limits herself to facts and not value judgements"? Am I missing the sarcasm or something? While I appreciate Lhuna's lists and find them amusing, I would never use those expressions to describe them. In my opinion, they are full of very subjective interpretation and more joking & bantering than clear and helpful statement of facts. There is nothing wrong with this kind of approach (meaning Lhuna's approach, of course), but there is something wrong with the fact that these two gentlemen interpret Lhuna's posts so very differently from how I do it. I mean, their view seems quite limited, if not even false.
Now, which one looks worse, Gwath or Leggie? I would say the latter, because he goes and agrees with such an absurd view. On the other hand, Gwath also called Legate reasonable, which I find quite suspicious like Legate himself apparently does. Okay, I must think about this, but I'm watching those two (like everybody else as well... ).

And Volo then? Self-vote for RL reasons? A bit boring but I don't think a wolf would do so. At least a wolf would be less inclined to do so. But, on the other hand, I know Volo is one of those few people who could probably do that as a wolf without blinking an eye. So actually I have no opinion about his allegiances. Well, he said he's going to be back on Day2, so no problem, but actually why did he vote himself instead of a) voting a random person, b) voting no one, or c) waking up/going to sleep half an hour earlier/later and reading the posts and voting someone based on some low-level reasoning, is a very interesting question, but sadly a domain on which you can only speculate for you have nothing to go on.

Oddwen's jumpiness and chattiness is slightly alarming.

And unlike so often in the past, there is no one (but myself) whom I find innocent-looking. I wonder if this is progress or decline...


edit: xed with Mith

[Nogrod]

This is getting interesting...

I agree with Lommy about Lhuna & the guys. Lhuna's list look more banterish than serious or sensical and thence Gwath's and Legate's praises of their factuality really raise eyebrows.

Of those I expressed a mild suspicion earlier I'd say Gwath's actions haven't exactly made him look better (he's too verbiose and "explanative") but Oddwen I feel a bit better about right now. I'm quite at loss with Lhuna although I'm inclined to think her more innocent than not.

Also I'm slightly worried about a bit too serious or defencive stance of Mith. It feels like she is thinking I have made an open suspicion on her and she needs to defend herself by sharing her motives whereas what I said about her clearly was only Day1 first loose points. It would fit the classical "wolf feels herself suspected more easily" -case.

Also I'm somewhat worried by Volo's self-vote and am inclined to make a different conclusion than Lommy did. Innocents may vote themselves that's true. But there should be a motive or reason for doing it fex. getting frustrated with the others suspecting you and trying to lynch you or/and trying to protect someone you think is a gifted from lynch or whatever. But it clearly can't be any of the above with Volo. It looks more like: "hey look at me everyone, I'm innocent". And I don't see why an innocent would try that - but I can see a host of reasons why a wolf might.

[Lhunardawen]

Wow, this is a quiet village - or is it because there's not much to say on Day 1s? And I see my lists have become a subject of debate. Should this worry me?

Gwathagor, I cannot imagine why you would want me to stick only to facts. If I had done that, which I assure you (as well as Legate who thought I didn't give much of my own opinion) I didn't, you should have been more worried, because there's no way you could have formulated an opinion of me. If I had just chronicled every single thing everyone said and NOT expressed what I thought of them, then I could very easily be judged as lycanthropic because I'm hiding behind others' words to keep me from saying anything possibly incriminating.

I don't know, Gwath, but I get this honest gut feeling () that you could be sucking up to Legate. If you're a wolf, and you know he's innocent, that's quite a strategy. But that's just me.

Mith feels innocent, she's honest enough to be one, and shows she has nothing to fear in saying whatever she feels like saying.

Nerwen's a bit worrying for skirting the issues, however petty, to which she could have contributed. That one post seems to me very safe - which makes it otherwise, if you get me.

Oddie's behaviour feels normal to me, however unsettling her words may be.

Now, as for Volo's self-vote, I'm not sure if Menel has a provision for automatic lynchings for non-voters. But in any case, I strongly advise not to vote for Volo because of his RL constraints. We have greater need to lynch our strong suspects than people who can't participate properly.

Speaking of participating properly, I see we still have a few people who haven't spoken. I hope they have valid reasons for being still absent. I'll be casting my vote (for either Nogrod, Gwath, or Nerwen as of this moment, but that could very well change) possibly within the hour.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

She's just too sneaky to be true.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Oh my, if anyone's behaving like a Cobbler here, then it's... everyone...

Yes. You are a cobbler, just like everyone else.
And I promise to lynch you first if you keep using Japanese words because they are ugly.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And where are the other French speakers?

Zut aleur! Les poissons!
(and that was the only thing I can say in French so no need to lynch me )

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But at least my conscience is clean.

That's what also Frollo said after killing an innocent woman in Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Ok.

I don't think Gwathy's first-days-are-rubbish attitude in his first post makes him suspicious, as he's always quite like that. My first post wasn't any more constructive than his, Oddwen's or Lhuna's, but why wasn't I suspected because of that then? Because I didn't say I hate day 1's? Why does saying that make one more suspicious, may I ask? Is it always a wolf desperately trying to get some content to his or her post? Or is suspecting someone because of that just the same as suspecting the silent ones on Day 1 - a principle?
But this doesn't actually matter since Gwathy, Oddwen and Lhuna are the wolves and I'm just the cobbler trying to defend them against the nasty Nogrod.

Originally Posted by Lommy

If so, it looks so pretty darn obvious and silly that he, Nog and Mith would probably not come up with such. Unless they want to double bluff.

Why?
As far as I've seen, wolves actually make very little plans. It's often just like "well let's try to be as normal as possible and behave depending on the situation". I've seen villagers come up with most ingenious suggestions about wolf plans while in reality the wolves try just to lie low and be like themselves. If the wolves make plans, I don't think they always realise how obvious it will look to the villagers whose noses are trained to smell the rat.
Therefore I wouldn't be as ready to rule out even the possibility of Nog-Leg-Mith trio planning things like that seriously.
Or then Nog and Mith were planning to behave like that towards each other and an innocent Legate just noticed it even before they had got into full speed.

My feelings right now:

Innocent
Mith because she looks honest and said she's an ordo.

Guilty
I'm a bit wary of Gwathagor because of his explanatory behaviour: "I never was one for the small talk; it always sounds unnatural coming from me." I think that kind of attitude was present also in his wolf-self. And he said Legate was reasonable, which looks like he was trying to gain a strong ally early.

Originally Posted by Gwathy

But don't give me reason to think otherwise.

Saying "don't give me a reason to think you're a wolf" always makes me think it's two fellow wolves talking who have decided to suspect each other a bit.
Legate who is deliberately behaving as oddly as possible so that he wouldn't be accidentally behaving oddly and then suspected because of it.
Lommy who is too happy and tra-la-ley.
Nogrod because he has Noggish reasons to suspect people and they never make sense to me.

Neither
Lhuna
Volo, who would have voted for himself, is he a wolf or not.
Nerwen
Oddwen
Kath
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior

edit: xed with Lhuna

[Lhunardawen]

I'm sorry, I can linger no more toDay.

++GWATHAGOR

because of my three highest suspects, he's the one I can defend from myself the least. I should give Nerwen more chance to speak, and Nogrod is always argumentative, although his arguments aren't always sound. But that's not to say I'm taking him off my list. It must be Gwath's disadvantage at this point that I've never played with him before, so I don't know if he's being his usual self, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Good night, everyone.

[Thinlómien]

Well, quite soon after complaining about finding no one innocent, I see two posts that look very innocent to me. I'm inclined to think Mith and Agan innocent right now. Mith sounds genuine and well, yes, she said she's an ordo and I'm not sure if she'd be dishonest to claim it that way if she was a wolf.

Agan then, she seems quite innocent and in a different way than she usually does. (Usually when she seems innocent to me she's a wolf.) She's not as careful and as unsuspicious as she's as a wolf. Of course, she's a smart person and I would not put it past her to have changed her playing style since it's getting pretty obvious, in a way.

Lhuna, too, seems quite innocent, but not as much as those two. I'm well aware that she's a Queen of Deceit. *shrugs* At least I enjoy having her around since she contributes quite a lot.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Zut aleur! Les poissons!
(and that was the only thing I can say in French so no need to lynch me )

Yes, obviously we shouldn't lynch her as a French speaker since she obviouly can't even spell her sayings right.

Originally Posted by Agan

Because I didn't say I hate day 1's? Why does saying that make one more suspicious, may I ask? Is it always a wolf desperately trying to get some content to his or her post? Or is suspecting someone because of that just the same as suspecting the silent ones on Day 1 - a principle?

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I don't find declaring that particularily suspicious - only rather unconstructive and annoying.

Originally Posted by Agan

Why?
As far as I've seen, wolves actually make very little plans. It's often just like "well let's try to be as normal as possible and behave depending on the situation". I've seen villagers come up with most ingenious suggestions about wolf plans while in reality the wolves try just to lie low and be like themselves. If the wolves make plans, I don't think they always realise how obvious it will look to the villagers whose noses are trained to smell the rat.
Therefore I wouldn't be as ready to rule out even the possibility of Nog-Leg-Mith trio planning things like that seriously.

I don't get this logic. And I doubt you explaining it would help. Looks like a simple disagreement. I daresay players such as Nog, Mith and Legate would realise it looks quite silly and obvious. Hey, now that I'm writing this your logic starts to make sense. Maybe they indeed wouldn't. But I can't see why they actually would make such a scheme. It's a good question. So in conclusion it probably isn't a wolvish scheme. 99% of wolvish-scheme theories are wrong. But of course this doesn't exonarate any of them, or even the very wolf triangle they could be.

I have a bad feeling I'm pretty bad at phrasing my thoughts unconfusingly today...


edit: xed with Lhuna

[Kath]

Well! I am here at last. My turtles took even longer that I thought they would. I haven't had a chance to look through the thread yet but I will try to do so although given my day so far I might have to make a random vote for which I do apologise as I hate doing it. Still, better any vote than none. Hopefully though I will have time to make a proper one.