T-I-G WW LXXIV: War of the Wolves

[satansaloser2005]

YOU'RE BACK! *hugs Boro* Heh we missed you!

[Inziladun]

I apologise for being such a non-entity toDay. I left work only 2 hours ago, and now I'm working an extra job, using an elderly laptop. :

I wanted to look at all the ones who'd been among the quiet ones, meaning Boro, Izzy, and Kitanna. All three appear to have been more active toDay though. But anyway...

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Wilwa does make a point we'd be helping the second wolfpack by getting rid of the first since Pack A can't win until Pack B is gone. However, I'll have to go with the sentiment that "a wolf is a wolf" at this point. We have to lynch one before we can put him/her into a team. Still, I don't see this as a real sign against Wilwa.

I refreshed my page and I could have sworn there was more to this quote. Something about how it looked like Wilwa was advising us not to lynch wolves, but it seems to have disappeared. *stares suspiciously at Nerwen*

First post. Maybe a bit wishy-washy. Says Wilwa has a point, but she doesn't agree with her. Then adds Wilwa shouldn't be suspected for her statement about helping one pack get rid of the other.
Also starts what became a rather large point of discussion that Day, Nerwen's 'slip' about the post-edit she made. Of course, we now know Nerwen was innocent.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I have forty minutes to read the thread, make my decision, and vote. Ugh, work days.

My first thought (and I should have mentioned it earlier) goes make to what Nogrod said in regards to Wilwa. After he highlighted her little bit about "helping" one team by destroying the other, I found it interesting both Nerwen and Inziladun commented on it. On Inziladun's part it was "hey yeah, this is interesting" but no further comment on it. Nerwen said something more along the lines that would Wolf-Wilwa be so careless in her speech?

Nerwen asks for her editing to not be blown out of proportion. Nogrod says this on the subject:

I agree with him on the fact she chose not to make her change public. However, I think innocents are just as conscious to what is being posted because they're as likely as a wolf to be lynched for mistyping or misconstruing their point. No one wants to be killed regardless of side and I don't follow Nogrod's reasoning completely on Nerwen as suspicious because what player isn't conscious of mistakes they make?

Defends Nerwen.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I hate that I have to do it this way, knowing full well the possible repercussions of such an early vote, but I need to get back to work.

Here's the only person that has popped out to me more than once at this point.

++Inziladun

Nogrod pointed out Wilwa's post about "helping" one wolf team by eliminating the other. Inziladun agrees. Nogrod points out Nerwen's editing and how she didn't make it public. Again Inziladun agrees, but doesn't really cast suspicion on Wilwa or Nerwen.

Before Norgrod says anything about Nerwen Inziladun says:
After Norgrod posts, he says:

Granted he never said he thought Nerwen was innocent or anything, but he changes his tune from her edit was just a mistake to she's suspicious because of it and all in light of someone else's comment.

I wish I could stay longer and didn't have to vote so hastily, but such as life I suppose.

A vote for me, based upon what I said about Nerwen. She says I flip-flopped, but herself admitted I never said Nerwen was innocent because of her mistake. Someone else said that though.....

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I..er...wow. That's...wow. Such the bloodbath last night.


If you look at the rest of that list Izzy is the only one she had felt good about. And she admits she has no real reason. It's a stretch that Lommy dreamt Izzy and revealed it in her first post, but maybe it's something to take into account. There is definitely something strange with Lommy's reasons for Izzy in that first post.

But in her third post she has this to say:

Lommy seems to give no reasons for trusting any of these people. In fact she's all over the place. I do believe she probably listed her dream, but by post three she's listed five people who she is inclined to believe are innocent and she only had one dream. I doubt she dreamt of Nogrod or she'd have tried very hard to have him lynched. Perhaps Nerwen was her dream? That would explain why at least Lommy's pack went after her in the night. However, by Lommy's post she's moved Nerwen to the enigma category. Me thinks my tired brain is looking for a hint in Lommy's posts that simply isn't there.

I will return after some sleep to make sense of Lommy's posts and my thoughts on them.

Spends time trying to puzzle out Lommy's dream. Maybe that wasn't a waste of time, like I thought at the time, but I didn't get anything from thinking on it.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I went back to read all the posts AFTER Nogrod pegs Lommy as a wolf in the hopes maybe one of her packmates slipped up. I ignored posts by Shasta, Sally, Nerwen, and Morsul.

Wilwa: Believes him to be the seer, seeing that it makes sense for an innocent seer to reveal as he did rather than run the risk of being killed in the night. In a later post she defends Nogrod's reveal from Sally and Boro.

Legate: Placed Nogrod in his yellow area, but he also admitted he didn't have the time to recheck the thread before turning in for the night. He placed Lommy in his green section. At the end of his post he added an edit about having seen what Nogrod revealed.

Boro: Asks if a wolf seer would reveal so soon. Puts forth several possibilities to other avenues. (such as wolf seer trying to look good, non-wolf seer trying to benefit his pack, I'm guessing he means lead the village away from the real wolf seer.) In a later post explains why he didn't want to jump on board and trust Nogrod without considering other options.

Izzy: Seems to agree with Wilwa and trusts Nogrod. Feels Legate is buttering Nog up.

Zil: Trusts Nogrod it looks like, but finds it unusual that he revealed when he was in no danger.

Pitch: Believes Nogrod to be a seer because no one would be foolish enough to lead us to lynch an innocent.

TEW: Knows it's a seer claim, nothing else really said.

Conclusions:
Wilwa: At first I was wary because she so readily agreed with Nogrod. But as I read on in her posts after that initial one she made good points as to why an innocent Nogrod would reveal so soon. Her continued defense of his reveal speaks more innocent to me than wolfish.

Boro: I like that Boro considered other options as to Nogrod being a wolf revealing to look good. I'm inclined to trust for this because he continued to defend this position that he didn't want to enthusiastically jump into believing Nogrod without giving it some thought. The fact that Wilwa and Boro both felt strongly enough in one direction or the other that they kept defending their points rather than just agreeing and voting makes me think more innocent at this point.

Legate: Didn't have time to really react in full to the reveal, but his brief reaction was suspect to me. He immediately glomped onto Nogrod it looked like and had a sort of "oh darn I was wrong about you and Lommy" all along.

TEW, Zil, Pitch, and Izzy: All are hard to read not giving much away after Nogrod's reveal. For the most part all fall into "Nogrod is telling the truth because why would he lie so early?" category. Legate falls into this too, but his "you were right, I was wrong" edit in his vote post seemed forced.

Unfortunately I can't come home from work on my lunch break to vote. There hasn't been a whole lot of activity today either and I was in a time crunch so I could only focus on a small number of posts. But here's my vote.

++ Legate

Of all those that reacted after the reveal of Nogrod his seemed the most forced. It looked as though he was trying to pull himself closer to Nogrod and distant himself from Lommy. Possible packmates?

Best of luck for the rest of the day.

Votes Legate, before Nog gave his dream. I don't think it's likely she's an Aphid, for that reason. Then again, it's not impossible that was a furry plan.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

You're missing a name there. What about Boro?

And we only have Wilwa's word that she's completely innocent of wolvery. Though it'd be very cunning or possibly very stupid for her to claim otherwise given the odds at this point.

Brings up we only have Wilwa to say she's the Anti-Lover. True, but as she says, unlikely to be a scheme of an evil Wilwa.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

"Help the 'village' Wilwa. *wink wink*"

Though his little plea does seem..shifty, Boro has a point. Wilwa is in a very uniqu]e position. She can choose to help the wolf teams and ally herself with those she feels are part of one team or another or she can help the village. The problem is we'd never know the path she took until it was potentially too late, but killing her isn't a good idea either. You, Wilwa, are going to be the slippery wild card.

Starts casting some suspicion Boro's way. Comments on Wilwa's freedom to pick her side.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I'm been having a look at our odds.

Me
Pitchie
Zil
Elfie
Izzy
Boro
Wilwa

Four of our seven our wolves and Wilwa is a wild card so we really only have two innocents, our unicorn and ranger. But if I understand correctly if the unicorn dies an innocent comes back to life, so that's helpful, but I'd rather not have the unicorn killed just to return a known innocent who then becomes an easy target at night. And what of our ranger? He/she is in a tight spot because revealing in case of danger signs his/her death warrant at night. And we still have a seer wolf for Legate's team, which means if his/her dreams were chosen wisely that team has an edge over the rest of us.

So who are the four we've got lurking about? I need to get to work. I will come home on my lunch break to comment some more and vote.

All right, thinks a dead Unicorn would be helpful because a known innocent would replace xem, but doesn't want that to happen, because the Revived would then be a 'target'. I don't understand why she talks of the Ranger revealing, Of course xe shouldn't!

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Doesn't that usually herald a swift and painful death by night? Or so experience would have me believe.

I have a question about the Unicorns. They die and an innocent comes back in their place, correct? Well then is it really in the villages best interest to lynch one either? An innocent comes back and in the case of the wereunicorn a wolf is knocked out too, but then we have a known innocent that could potentially be only useful for a day before they become a nighttime kill. Two days if the ranger survives and protects them, but as a known innocent they become a likely target at night. So is it really in anyone's best interest to kill the unicorns? Maybe I've misunderstood how this role works, but it seems like it'll only benefit the village for a short while before we get thrown into confusion again over roles.


Is that a threat to get Wilwa on your side, Boro?

Says again the Unicorns shouldn't be killed because they ordos that replace them will just be killed at Night. I don't get that argument at all. More innocents=more work for the wolves. How is that bad? And the Were must be killed for a vilage win.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I suppose. I guess I just find the whole idea silly and baffling. *shrug* I'll just hide and pretend the unicorns don't exists and we just have wolf and innocent right now.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

If the wolves go after the same kill it could potentially happen. I wasn't really thinking in terms of how many people we have left. Like i said, the role just confuses me. But I think my questions have been answered now.

So I realize I haven't really been able to keep up so well in this game. I usually have enough time to go over specific posts rather than all of them. It doesn't really provide the best basis for a vote, but a Kit has to work. That said, I was really only able to look at today's post and a few from yesterday.

++ Boro

He seemed level headed and helpful enough to start with. I liked that he didn't jump immediately into accepting Nogrod's seer claim and that he felt strongly enough to continue to defend it. Today, however, his pleas with Wilwa look none to right. His first one looked like he was trying to sweet talk her.

But then there's this:

Looks like he's saying "I can end you with one PM to our moddess tonight. Ally yourself with me toDay."

These posts look too far out of place for Boro and they don't look like the work of an innocent villager to me.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Our hunter could be brought too or Morsul (though he dropped out on his own accord, so probably not.) We have no guarantee it'd be Nogrod. So would we want the risk?

edit: Best of luck. I won't return until day's over.

And a vote for Boro. Now, I'm not comfortable with Boro either, but it all seems to have come out of left field about him. Hmm.

[Pitchwife]

Oops - thanks for the correction.

++Kit

EDIT: x-ed with Zil

[Isabellkya]

Crap, I forgot about the fifteen minute thing, was stuck in traffic.

So.. two minutes or so left?

X'd with Pitch and Dun.

[satansaloser2005]

DL in ~15 minutes, dears.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Crap, I forgot about the fifteen minute thing, was stuck in traffic.

So.. two minutes or so left?

X'd with Pitch and Dun.

DL is back to normal.

[Inziladun]

I forgot about the DL shift too. That last post took forever to write, and this lousy computer logged me off before I could send it.

Bloody hell.

++Kitanna

I don't know what Boro is, but I don't have time to do anything else toDay. The odds are with us getting a wolf, though.

x/d with Sally. Gah!

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Boro

She's going to need us if she wants to win.

If by 'us' you mean that you're a wolf, yes. If by 'us' you mean that you're an innocent, no. I can win without the village ya know, and your threats are just annoying me a bit, especially if you really are an innocent.

[Isabellkya]

Why exactly are you voting for Kitanna, Pitch?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

If by 'us' you mean that you're a wolf, yes. If by 'us' you mean that you're an innocent, no. I can win without the village ya know, and your threats are just annoying me a bit, especially if you really are an innocent.

You know I love you, but if you think I'm going to like someone dragging us around for amusement I'm not going to like it much.

With that said...

++Izzy

Don't have much of a good reason more of a crap shoot with good odds

Edit: highlighting vote

[Pitchwife]

Izzy - what I said in my last list, and before, + a bit of wild guessing, + running out of time.

[satansaloser2005]

*cough* highlight *cough*


Three minutes. ^_^

[Isabellkya]

++Boromir

Mostly because there is less than two minutes left, and I am unsure about Kitanna.. too many wolves.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

You know I love you, but if you think I'm going to like someone dragging us around for amusement I'm not going to like it much.

Dragging? That's a bit harsh. Maybe pulling would be a better word.

My vote then:

++Boro

Sorry love.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Mostly because there is less than two minutes left, and I am unsure about Kitanna.. too many wolves.

So you're the other wolf seer! Dah da dum

[satansaloser2005]

DL!

Gimme a tick to double check, k? K.

[satansaloser2005]

Boro is dead. He was team Aphid's hunter.

With him went Izzy. She was....the innocent ranger.

Dun dun dun!

[satansaloser2005]

Kit is dead. The last thing she saw? Her evil plans for Team Aphid being burned. *cackles*


To make that perfectly clear....


The Living
Pitch
Dun
Wilwa
Elf-Warrior


The Dead
Kit: Seer!wolf, Team Aphid
Everyone else


ETA: Pitch was saved by the remaining ranger.




Erm....that pretty much means the game's over, actually. *shifty eyes* As far as I know anyway. I won't reveal everything just in case Lottie's got a trick up her sleeve, but that means Team Aphid is kaput.

[Loslote]

"I like being evil," Pitchie said.

"Me too," Zil said.

"Wanna kill Kit?"

"Sure!"

"No!" Kit said. "I kill Pitchie instead!"

"Nah," Zil said. "I like Pitchie."

"Dang," Kit said. "Okay then, I die."

"Yay," Pitchie said.

"Now what?" Zil asked.

"Let's go kill the rest," Pitchie said.

"Sure! Yo, Elfie!"

"Yeah?"

"We're killing you!"

"Oh. So, moddess, do I get my unicorn revival?"

"No," Lottie said, for some reason reappearing in the scene. "Too late."

"Darn," Elfie said, and died.

"Now Wilwa!" Zil said.

"No, wait!" Wilwa said. "I'm the anti-lover. I'm not against your victory!"

"Oh, fine," Pitchie said. "You can live, I guess."

"Oh, yay," Wilwa said.

~~~

Team Ladybug (Pitchie and Zil) win.
Antilover (Wilwa) wins.
Village loses.
Lovers lose.

[wilwarin538]

Oh, yay.


Mwahaha.


Thanks Lottie, awesome game!

Good job everyone! Especially Pitch and Zil, congrats on the win!

[Pitchwife]

The Quest is achieved, and now all is over. I am glad you're here with me. Here at the end of all things, Zil.

Or in other words, Gimme five!

Congratulations to you as well, wilwa!

Now back to bed, more tomorrow.

[Inziladun]

Excellent! The Ladybugs prove that having a less than intimidating name need not be a detriment.

First off, thanks for modding, Lottie! It was an interesting concept, with a good variety of roles.

This was quite a different game with the second wolfpack and the Unicorns. Add in the Lovers and the AL and there was a lot on our plate.

We caught some lucky breaks which proved decisive. The first was the Night 2 kill of Nerwen, leading to the deaths of Sally and Shasta. We had no idea Nerwen was the Hunter; she was just someone else who we thought should be gotten rid of as a proactive measure, if we couldn't get Nog. Obviously, we weren't the only ones thinking along those lines.

Speaking of Nog, our LommySeer!wolf had dreamed of him the first Night and was able to tell us before Day 1 that he was the good Seer. We had decided to leave him for the Night, and not risk trying to lynch him. But then he had to ruin our plan with a reveal. And he was right in that we couldn't bring ourselves to trust the Aphids to kill him on Night 3, leading to both packs getting him. It was helpful that Nog produced Legate on Day 2, certainly, instead of one of us. I was very glad to see Nog go, as I was convinced he'd be pushing hard for my lynch the next Day, if he hadn't come up with another wolf.

We also got lucky with the Day 3 lynch of Boro, who was kind enough to take out Izzy the Ranger. To that point, we'd been thinking Izzy was probably an Aphid, and Kit the likely Ranger.

I thought TEW did an outstanding job, in the first game I'd played with him. I'll try to post some our PMs with my packmates' permission. In one of them, I note that TEW on Day 3 correctly identified all four of the remaining wolves! He certainly went after me.

And good game Aphids! A most formidable pack. You had some bad luck, to be sure. First, you lost Legate to a Seer dream, then Boro the next Day. His lynch really came out of the blue for me, but I was quite happy with the result. We identified Kit on the last Night through process of elimination. Luckily, I had protected myself the previous Night, leaving me able to save Pitch Night 4.

Wilwa wins as the scorned Anti-Lover. Thanks for voting Boro and not me!

Last, but not least. Well done, packmates! I'm sorry you had to go so soon, Lommy. I found it exasperating (but not surprising) that Nog had to dream of you the first Night. Then again, you returned the favour. We just couldn't act against him the way he did to you.
Pitch was tremendous. "Mr. Agreeable", indeed. He helped cheer me up Night 3, as I agonised over what awaited me the next Day if Nog was still around. And our discussions in the Night were quite enlightening.

LADYBUGS!!

[The Elf-warrior]

Congratulations to Team Ladybug and Team Anti-lover. I'm glad someone thought I played well.

[Nerwen]

I'm still kicking myself. The Night I died, I had a shortlist of people to hunt: Boro, Kit, Pitch, Legate... and Sally.

*kick**kick**kick*

Anyway, congratulations, Wilwa and Team Ladybug!

Originally Posted by Zil

Excellent! The Ladybugs prove that having a less than intimidating name need not be a detriment.

Hey, it's a seriously intimidating name if you happen to be an aphid.

See? Prophetic names, they were.

[satansaloser2005]

Don't feel bad, dear. I was laying such thick lover hints so that I could come out the next Day or so as the anti-lover. Then I was going to get Wilwa killed and offer myself to the highest bidder, hanging back in the shadows until I'd decided who I wanted to truly align myself with. The odds wouldn't have been good for the village.

Also, when I died I was talking to Lottie and I completely pegged everyone's gifts and roles except like one person. I was quite pleased with myself, 'cause (as usual) I was going all on gut and had little evidence for what I thought. ^_^


Oh, and whoever left the anonymous neg rep for doing the moddess' bidding (though I doubt it was anyone in the game, because you're all lovely people and far too kind and intelligent to do that) pfffft on you. I follow directions from Her Highness regardless of chicken liver repping. Bwahahahaha, mine is an evil laugh, etc. (Also, thanks to Lottie herself of course for letting me/telling me to have fun post-mortem. I did in fact enjoy myself, even if I didn't do a whole lot of consequence in the game.)

[Isabellkya]

Congrats all.

I kind of suspected the innocents would lose, seems to happen every time I am the Ranger.. Eeeek.

Haha. I had thought about forgoing the protection on Nog Night 2, but whenever I gamble, the opposite tends to happen. So, I figured protecting him was better than losing him. And just envisioned the Princess Bride in my head.

I think that is the first time I've ever been hunted.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and I nearly forgot.


*snuggles everyone, nibbles on Wilwa*

[Loslote]

First of all, Thank you to everyone who played. *snuggles you guys*

Secondly, thank you to my wonderful Ladybug pack for making me laugh with every pm. First Lommy and Nog dream each other (which is still funny), then:

Yours truly,
Pack Ladybug (Pitch & Zil)

And then their titles kept including Ladybug Pack....Legate also did this:

(said the aphid... whatever)

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, when I died I was talking to Lottie and I completely pegged everyone's gifts and roles except like one person. I was quite pleased with myself, 'cause (as usual) I was going all on gut and had little evidence for what I thought. ^_^


Oh, and whoever left the anonymous neg rep for doing the moddess' bidding (though I doubt it was anyone in the game, because you're all lovely people and far too kind and intelligent to do that) pfffft on you. I follow directions from Her Highness regardless of chicken liver repping. Bwahahahaha, mine is an evil laugh, etc. (Also, thanks to Lottie herself of course for letting me/telling me to have fun post-mortem. I did in fact enjoy myself, even if I didn't do a whole lot of consequence in the game.)

You couldn't peg Zil or Legate, mostly 'cause I'd been confusing about Legate earlier.

Also...yeah. If you didn't notice, Sally became "Official Botherer of Living" after that neg-rep...quite vexing, really, if I'd wanted her to be quiet I would have told her and she would have respected my wishes.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'm still kicking myself. The Night I died, I had a shortlist of people to hunt: Boro, Kit, Pitch, Legate... and Sally.

*kick**kick**kick*

hehe, could you have imagined if you picked me? Oh the carnage...mwahaha!

I think the first night I was hunting wilwa. We thought Nog was going to be protected, so just went with someone I thought was probably innocent. The plan though was, if Nog wasn't dead, and he revealed me, I was going to get lynched and pick him. Then he goes and dreams of Legate. *head-desk* You played that role probably as good as it could have been played Nog.

[Morsul the Dark]

Go wolves YAYAYAY!!!

[Loslote]

Heh. Before I left for the retreat that ended up being on this weekend (sorry about that, guys, there was confusion and misinformation and I didn't know it was *this* weekend... ) I saw that *one* vote and kind of freaked...my thoughts were mostly "he is *NOT* getting himself killed and taking the *RANGER* with him because his *PACKMATE* voted him!!!!" Then I calmed down and saw the humourous value in the situation.

And thanks again to Sally for acting as co-moddess when I couldn't reach Hakon and I was away. *snuggles Sally*

And Elfie, you're good.

If anyone wants to know, Noggie dreamed of Pitchie his last Night. Good seer. *pets Noggie*

EDIT: Boro, Izzy, I've posted your narration.

[Pitchwife]

I can only concur with everything my dear packmate has said above. Nice game design, Lottie - I think the two Unicorns (I was the Werecorn, of course) more or less balanced out the high percentage of wolves, as both packs were anxious not to kill them, and Nog's reveal didn't make life any easier for us, either. And I loved the laconic minimalism of your narrations!

I'm happy to return Zil's compliments. His perceptions of people were most astute - e.g. he pegged Legate as a likely member of the rival pack after Day 1, based on the way he'd been suspecting me (assuming the Aphid Seer had dreamt me) and made a sound and elaborate case for TEW's innocence (a splendid counterpart to his attack on the thread!) in Night 4, when Kit's daring double wolf-on-wolf against Legate and Boro had made me waver about my gut-feeling that TEW was the Innocorn. (You really should post our PMs! Or I can do it, if you haven't saved them all.) And it was quite nice for both of us to know for once we were on the same side.
If Zil had his night of agony in Night 3, it was my turn to come close to despair in Night 4. I wasn't sure how the Unicorn role would affect the endgame - i.e. if the Innocorn was the last innocent standing, could we claim victory or would we have to kill him and go through the motions again the next Day with a revived ordo? - , and both of us feared that the Aphid Seer had dreamed one of us and, to avoid a Unicorn revival, would go for Zil, who couldn't protect himself that Night; I dreaded the perspective of being the last wolf in the endgame and thought the best I could hope to achieve would be a draw. It was Zil who reminded me that the Seerwolf couldn't see our gifts and was just as likely to target me - as it turned out to be.

Lommy, it must have sucked for you to go so early, but I hope it's a comfort that we avenged you. Very well seered, and well played - I hope you didn't mind that I stole some of your ideas from our Nightly discussion *coughHunterrevealingasSeercough*. (For the record, Lommy's other candidates for the Night 1 dream were Kit and Nerwen, both of which would have been splendid choices as well.)

All in all, I enjoyed being part of this pack very much - although I wouldn't have minded being teamed up with any of the Aphids, either. Unlike your insect counterparts, you were formidable opponents, Legate and Boro - and Kit fooled my innocent persona totally. (For curiosity's sake, Kit, what were your dreams?)

wilwa, all I can say is your co-victory was thoroughly deserved.

Nog, I have to agree with Boro that this was a model Seer performance. Actually, your assessments of TEW and Kit were a big help to us figuring out which was which last Night!
And à propos,

Originally Posted by Lottie

If anyone wants to know, Noggie dreamed of Pitchie his last Night. Good seer. *pets Noggie*

Not quite "Of course you would" this time, but I had a strong feeling you might, and therefore was quite adamant we had to kill you now or never.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'm still kicking myself. The Night I died, I had a shortlist of people to hunt: Boro, Kit, Pitch, Legate... and Sally.

Wow. Or rather, Phew! We were quite right to fear you.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I kind of suspected the innocents would lose, seems to happen every time I am the Ranger.. Eeeek.
Haha. I had thought about forgoing the protection on Nog Night 2, but whenever I gamble, the opposite tends to happen. So, I figured protecting him was better than losing him. And just envisioned the Princess Bride in my head.

Don't blame yourself, I'd absolutely have done the same in your shoes.

sally, kudos for being spot on about me on Day 1 - that was a nasty trap you caught me in, I was tremendously relieved when Nerwen got rid of you for me. And

Originally Posted by sally

whoever left the anonymous neg rep for doing the moddess' bidding

can't have been in your last game; I think it should have been obvious you'd got a post mortem assignment, similar to the phantom's Heckler role. Thanks for co-modding, too!

TEWie, you really did very very well - I mean, not only correctly identifying the four remaining wolves, but also their respective packs! And although I wavered a bit about you and Kit for a while, it would have truly surprised me if you'd turned out a rival wolf, you felt so innocent to me.

Good job, everybody - including Shasta and Morsul; sorry both of you had to go so early (but then again, not really *wolvish grin*).

Finally,

Originally Posted by Zil

"Mr. Agreeable", indeed.

That's gonna stick with me for good now, I guess. I'll just have to live with it...

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

when Kit's daring double wolf-on-wolf against Legate and [B]Boro

There I was trying to look suspicious enough to lead the crowd away from my packmates and it totally backfired. Who knew Legate was going to be a dream or that Boro made a better lynch candidate than me. Image my surprise coming home from work two different days to find my packmates dead.

(For curiosity's sake, Kit, what were your dreams?)

Morsul, Sally, Wilwa, and Pitch.

[Nogrod]

That was fun! *bowstoLottie*

And looking at all these "revelations" one just realises how close it was, so many times, to take the game into a totally another direction. So small margins...

And my apologies to Lommy also online (done that in RL already). But I just had to check her first as she and Greenie (both my daughters, to anyone who doesn't know it yet) are to me the hardest to fathom as I tend to either over- or under-suspect them everytime.

Legate I had a hunch over, mainly from his carefulness (which he always is - and very skilful indeed!) and of his relation to Lommy. First I thought they were in cahoots but later I started to think it more probable they were probing each other because they were on different sides.

On Day2 I came actually so confident of Kit being a wolf (because of her sudden and poorly reasoned attack on Legate - and I of course knew he was a wolf that time but she didn't know I knew - so I thought she knew Legate was on the opposing side) that I didn't feel it important enough to dream of her. But looking how Pitch trailed her suspicion being careful enough not to look like he was actually "driving" it made me very suspicious of him of being Kit's mate (with Lommy as the third one on their team - heh, the one who checked Legate on N1 of course, and that was why Kit & Pitch knew he was an enemy... )

So as you see: one can pick the right people from the way they act and build totally believable explanations for their acts based on totally wrong reasoning!

Well done Ladybugs!

And you really had some tough luck there Aphids! I just don't understand how Boro got lynched in the first place...

But the unluckiest of all I think were us innocents: such a bloodbath! Looking at the carnage from N1 I was really happy I had revealed already on D1. It was just as messy as I feared it could be. But well fought, looking at the circumstances. And don't worry Izzy, it tends to go that way: when you risk as the ranger the wolves seem to act straightforwardly and vice versa. It just tends to go that way.

[Thinlómien]

Yay! Go Zil and Pitch! *hugs them and does a bug-y dance*

Yes, for me this game wasn't the most pleasant, because on Night1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay nice pack! yay I dreamt of the seer!" and on Day1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay I'm quite convincingly innocent-looking! oh sh**, Nogrod dreamt of me!!!!!!!!!!!"

Anyway, I'm glad if I gave some ideas in the Nightly discussions and created confusion that my packmates could use to their advantage.

Thanks for the game, Lottie. I have to confess I didn't read anything properly after I died, but looks like people were playing well. It was fun as long as it lasted!

ps. *points at signature*

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hey, it's a seriously intimidating name if you happen to be an aphid.

See? Prophetic names, they were.

Heh, I forgot about their interspecies antagonism.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Bwahahahaha, mine is an evil laugh, etc. (Also, thanks to Lottie herself of course for letting me/telling me to have fun post-mortem. I did in fact enjoy myself, even if I didn't do a whole lot of consequence in the game.)

I still say Charlie the Unicorn's friends are downright disturbing.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Haha. I had thought about forgoing the protection on Nog Night 2, but whenever I gamble, the opposite tends to happen. So, I figured protecting him was better than losing him. And just envisioned the Princess Bride in my head.

I don't think I could take that gamble as a Ranger. 'A bird in the hand'...etc.

Originally Posted by Loslote

And then their titles kept including Ladybug Pack.

Well, with you dealing with two packs we wanted to make sure there was no confusion.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

That's gonna stick with me for good now, I guess. I'll just have to live with it...

Well, "Mr. Agreeable" isn't so bad. at least we aren't calling you "Stan".

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But looking how Pitch trailed her suspicion being careful enough not to look like he was actually "driving" it made me very suspicious of him of being Kit's mate (with Lommy as the third one on their team - heh, the one who checked Legate on N1 of course, and that was why Kit & Pitch knew he was an enemy...

And there I was so sure I'd be your likely dream, with the way you were attacking my suspicion of TEW (supported by Pitch!).

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Yes, for me this game wasn't the most pleasant, because on Night1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay nice pack! yay I dreamt of the seer!" and on Day1 I was like "yay I'm playing ww! yay I'm quite convincingly innocent-looking! oh sh**, Nogrod dreamt of me!!!!!!!!!!!"

Indeed I thought you were looking quite good on Day 1. All that work, only to be taken out by the work of a Seer on a mission.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Hi there too, and let me say I'm quite delighted to be a member of this particular pack!

I'm the WereUnicorn and was told to 'try very very hard not to die', for obvious reasons. I suppose that makes Zil our RangerWolf - but I've got to admit I'm a little confused as to the definitive version of the Rules.

I was thinking the same. In my first game as a wolf, I discovered that I find wolf-on-wolfing much easier than making cases against known innocents...

Well, if it was me, my first pick would be Nerwen (especially after last game), but Nog or Kit would be good choices as well.
What's quite nice is that while you can't see the gifts of the enemy wolves, you can still see innocent gifteds (if I understand the Rules correctly), which is something to keep in mind after Day1. (Not that you need to be told, but I just thought I'd mention it anyway.

I'm asking myself what should be our strategy towards the other pack, if we can sniff them out - keep them around for a while, let them help us reduce the number of innocents but risk getting bitten by the mouth we're feeding, or get rid of them in time before they can help the innocents reduce our numbers? (It's more or less the same question as with a Werebear.) In the long run, of course, we want to Kill Them All...

That's all for now, but if you'd like to talk, I guess I'll be awake for another hour or so.

Greetings,
Pitch

Meeting and greeting, talking of possible dream-picks for Lommy, and how to treat the Aphids.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Sounds like the logical thing to do when you're a Seer who can't reveal... (But see my last about the strategy question.)
À propos, it just occurs to me that the Innocent Seer may have a hard time if they choose to reveal - even if they get a wolf lynched, the other innocents have no way of telling their own Seer from a wolvish one. That could be used to our favour, if one of us has the bad luck to get dreamed.

Seconded.

-Pitch

Discussing what to do if Lommy dreamed a rival wolf. Didn't need to spend so much time on it, in retrospect. And I like that about it being hard for the real Seer to reveal.

And of course:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If we manage to do it easily, let's get Nogrod lynched toMorrow: he is the goodie seer.

Otherwise, let's just let him be and kill him on Night2. No panic about getting him lynched though, we have plenty time and now we know to be wary...

I'm off to sleep now, so good night and good Day! See you around on the thread...

-Lommiewolf

Plenty of time. So we thought...

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I still say Charlie the Unicorn's friends are downright disturbing.

So they are, now that I've found the time to look at all of sally's links.

Originally Posted by the above

Well, "Mr. Agreeable" isn't so bad. at least we aren't calling you "Stan".

The latter's taken (sort of), but in RL I'm more or less Stan to my beloved's Ollie...

Originally Posted by -"-

And there I was so sure I'd be your likely dream, with the way you were attacking my suspicion of TEW (supported by Pitch!).

I told you he wouldn't need a dream to go for you...

Originally Posted by -"-@Lommy

Indeed I thought you were looking quite good on Day 1.

So did I, I don't know I'd have seen anything furry about you if I'd been an innocent.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

As I said in my last, my feeling is that two packs or one make less of a difference to the Ranger logistics than the question of his alignment, but all that is more or less academic. If I were the Ranger, I'd protect him, period.

My only worry is that the other pack thinks the same, nobody goes after him and it turns out later he wasn't guarded after all, in which case I'll eat my keyboard (which has already got some fang marks from previous games). But yeah, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. Let's keep him for next Night.

Actually, I'm sure you've noticed there's hardly anybody in this village who isn't either a wolf or gifted or endowed with a secret role. But good point about Nerwen - if I were the Seer, she'd have been my first pick. And it would be nice if we could spoil Nog's second dream by killing his target and having their role revealed before he can do it.

OK, among these three, I'd choose Nerwen - mainly for sporting reasons (Tewie hasn't played for a long time, and Boro died early in his last few games), but also because she's the most dangerous.

Another thing - just in case one of us gets dreamed next, the other obviously shouldn't make any stupid rescue attempts, rather push what's falling and see to their own survival. But after that, the survivor might try to discredit Nog as a wolf-seer who only delivers wolves from the rival pack. Needs to be done carefully, though.

And that's it for now. See you toMorrow on the thread.
Pitch

Of course, what to do about Nog was the main topic of discussion. Once we'd decided to let him be, that was our thought process in choosing who we would kill. I find it truly amazing both packs ended up with the same kill-choice, completely independant of one another. That must simply speak for Nerwen's fear-factor.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

OK, now the reading is over...

Yes you were! Quite brilliant.

1. We're not going to lose. *insert 'whistling in the dark' smiley* (Seriously - of course we may, but we haven't lost yet, and the other pack is not much better off than we are.)
2. If we do, I don't care to whom - i.e. may the best have the victory, whoever it is.

That's about the only explanation that makes any sense at all. She wants to survive, and all three parties may need her as a voting ally in the endgame, therefore she thinks we can't afford to kill/lynch her.
(Actually, I had the weird idea to fake-reveal as the AL myself - what with my interactions w/ sally & Shasta, it might not look quite implausible; but if wilwa decides to 'spill' toMorrow...)

Thus saith the Lord of Werewolves: Thou shalt not suffer a Seer to live. Or so I believe.
What makes you think the other pack won't leave him alone thinking we'll go after him?
As to who the other pack could be, I don't buy Nog's theory that Kit = the other wolf-Seer, I don't think she'd jeopardize her Ranger like that. Anyway, I'd like to avoid their Hunter while we can.
Going to look at the thread again, and I'll try to separate what my ordo-self thought from what my wolf-self thinks...
Till later,
- Pitch

I saw that as a less-than stellar performance on Day 2 from me. Still worried about Nog, and whether we should go after him. I thought seriously of leaving Nog alone, hoping the Aphids would get him, and going for Boro. Not because I necessarily thought he was a wolf, but because he was an unknown factor, and would be fairly trailless. I wonder who he was hunting that Night.
Also, Wilwa was an obvious topic.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I'm not that sure you'd be Nog's next dream. It could be me, or it's possible he'll check one of Boro or Izzy to make sure he's not overlooking something; or even wilwa. He may think that a case can be made against either of us without the support of a dream. Not that I'd bet my life or yours on it (which is what we'll be doing if we leave him alone), but it's possible.
Anyway, what can happen if we go for Nog and the Aphids go for one of us? You'll protect yourself, and if they kill me and my role is revealed, my little wolf-on-wolf against you could make the innocents think better of you.*
Let's face it, it's not awfully likely that both of us will survive to the end. But the same goes for them. Right now, the innocents/non-wolves have the numeric advantage.

About who is what - I couldn't glean that much from the thread (which is because I didn't sleep too well last night, had a long work-day and am rather tired now), but I quite like your idea about Boro + Izzy = Aphids. Some guesswork, rather hunch-based (and hoping to channel something remotely like Shasta's psychic powers):
Boro = Aphid-Hunter
Izzy = Aphid-Seer
and the innocents (knowing Nog=Seer and assuming wilwa=AL):
TEWie = Unicorn
Kit = Ranger.
Hmmm... if I'm right, I'd say, leave Kit alone. If she guarded Nog last Night (which I think likely), she'll guard herself toNight. And we don't want to kill the Unicorn (yet), do we?
So either Nog (like you said, at least we'd know what the Ranger has been up to), or Izzy.

*Forgot - with a known innocent back from the dead, the chances of either pack winning would get rather bleak... (That whole Unicorn business really sucks!)

Bah. Any last thoughts before I sink into happy oblivion?
-Pitch

Pitch was spot on about Nog's dream, as it turned out. He had Izzy and Kit mixed up, but very close on the roles!
And we decided we couldn't ignore Nog.