Infinite Nazgul Combo - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nilpaurion Felagund · 09-16-2003, 12:19 AM

After the Nazgul appeared, Sauron took the ring back from them, right. I was thinking--what if Sauron made a whole new batch of Nazguls? Can he do it?

Gwaihir the Windlord · 09-16-2003, 01:06 AM

Obviously not. Although it appears that the Nine probably rested with Sauron, and were probably not carried around by the Nazgul themselves, the Rings were not merely responsible for making the Ringwraiths 'appear'; the reason that they stayed devoted to Sauron was their unbreakable connection with him through the Nine.

While the Rings themselves were with Sauron (we don't actually know this for sure, by the way), each Ring was stilled 'owned' by a Nazgul. They were not designed for more than one wearer.

Were Sauron somehow to do this, I would guess that each Nazgul or neo-Nazgul would be quite substantially weaker than they were with the normal one Ring per wraith. The sustained power would have to be dissipated amongst them all, of course. But the Nine Rings did not work this way; one owner, and total devotion with that owner -- and of course with the Lord of the Rings, Sauron, with whom by the Rings a channel to each Nazgul was maintained.

Findegil · 09-16-2003, 05:18 AM

I think the result of such an prozess would have been a mortal combat between the Nazgûl and the wearer of his Ring. Think of the relations between Gollum - Bilbo, Bilbo - Frodo (the scene in Imlardris), Gollum - Frodo, Frodo - Sam (in the Tower of Cirith Ungol). In all this cases the processor of old had not be totally enslaved to the ring and to the habbit of evil as the Nazgûl had been.

Respectfully
Findegil

Nilpaurion Felagund · 09-21-2003, 09:20 PM

OK, but can he create three more Nazguls from the Dwarven-rings he recovered?

lathspell · 09-22-2003, 01:24 PM

No, there could be no more Nazgul. He gave the Nine to Mighty Kings in the days of old, and they were ensnared by Sauron, while he had the One. They became the Nine Nazgul. Dwarves resisted the power of the Three otherwise they would have become wraiths as well, but they only became somewhat greedier.

Marroc Underhill · 09-22-2003, 05:40 PM

I believe the Nazgul shared a certain amount of power, so if they were to create MORE Nazgul, all of the wraiths would be somewhat less. And Sauron and the Nazgul were kind of "connected" and were sustained by his power. How else would they have been able hold on and return to M.E. with Sauron? And even if Sauron wanted to create more Nazgul, he probably couldn't. He may have been powerful at the time, but not that powerful. He would also need hosts to sucumb to his power. He probably wouldn't use an Easterling, He might not trust them enough. But then he might add his power to the Mouth of Sauron, and created a being more powerful than the Witch-King. The Mouth of Sauron, being a sorcerer himself, might have made it possible using his magic together with Saurons, so not to "exaust" his master's power. Just a thought. Hope I helped.

Marroc

Eol Telemnar · 12-12-2003, 06:36 PM

Well, Going back to the original question. No, Sauron would not want to. And in middle earth, the world of me is not in good shape. I don't think there are nine more Kings of men to be turned to Nazgul. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Finwe · 12-14-2003, 01:49 PM

Eol, don't dredge up old threads just to agree with the posts of previous members.

Elladan and Elrohir · 12-14-2003, 03:26 PM

I don't know where we get this idea that Sauron kept the Nine Rings in his possession during the Third Age. In the Council of Elrond chapter, Gandalf explicitly says, "The Nine the Nazgul keep."

Sure, somebody (I can't remember who offhand) says Sauron "holds the Seven and the Nine," but that doesn't mean they're always with him, and he can still control the Nazgul without holding their Rings (or so we must presume).

Lindril Arvilya · 12-14-2003, 07:55 PM

I was thinking briefly about what would happen if Sauron somehow got a few new rings and handed them out... but then, I doubt he could make them, they wouldn't really be bound to the One... and besides, I guess Nazguls are like coal... you really have to wait for them to come out right.

Lindril (and they burn well too) Arvilya

12-15-2003, 10:30 PM

I'm not sure if Sauron needed to physically have the rings to control the Nazgul. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Nazgul sort of disappear when Sauron couldn't take physical form? They could be somewhat connected.

Keeper of Dol Guldur · 12-16-2003, 12:01 AM

Since Frodo saw rings on the hands of the Nazgul when he was in their realm of ethereal appearance, I would maintain that the rings themselves phased out of physical reality along with the wraithes themselves. The jewelry likely was what kept them in that state of not-being.

I think the question would be, when the Witch-King was destroyed, did his ring magically zap back to Sauron, and if then could Sauron do it again? And I'd have to say a resounding no. By severing the Witch-King's magical sinews, Merry and Eowyn seemed to have also severed his spirits link with the physical realm (it may not have existed there, but it had a link, and that's why it could be clothed in the garb of the Ringwraith), and so the ring would in turn be trapped, severed from the material world along with him.

Finwe · 12-16-2003, 05:39 PM

I agree. When Eowyn and Merry destroyed the Witch-king, they did so completely, effectively severing all bonds or ties that he, or anything that was a part of him, had with the world.

09-16-2003, 12:19 AM	#1
Nilpaurion Felagund Scion of The Faithful Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines] Posts: 5,430	Infinite Nazgul Combo After the Nazgul appeared, Sauron took the ring back from them, right. I was thinking--what if Sauron made a whole new batch of Nazguls? Can he do it? __________________ フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...

09-21-2003, 09:20 PM	#4
Nilpaurion Felagund Scion of The Faithful Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines] Posts: 5,430	OK, but can he create three more Nazguls from the Dwarven-rings he recovered? __________________ フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...

09-22-2003, 01:24 PM	#5
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	No, there could be no more Nazgul. He gave the Nine to Mighty Kings in the days of old, and they were ensnared by Sauron, while he had the One. They became the Nine Nazgul. Dwarves resisted the power of the Three otherwise they would have become wraiths as well, but they only became somewhat greedier. __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

09-22-2003, 05:40 PM	#6
Marroc Underhill Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: In The Deep Places Of The World Posts: 61	I believe the Nazgul shared a certain amount of power, so if they were to create MORE Nazgul, all of the wraiths would be somewhat less. And Sauron and the Nazgul were kind of "connected" and were sustained by his power. How else would they have been able hold on and return to M.E. with Sauron? And even if Sauron wanted to create more Nazgul, he probably couldn't. He may have been powerful at the time, but not that powerful. He would also need hosts to sucumb to his power. He probably wouldn't use an Easterling, He might not trust them enough. But then he might add his power to the Mouth of Sauron, and created a being more powerful than the Witch-King. The Mouth of Sauron, being a sorcerer himself, might have made it possible using his magic together with Saurons, so not to "exaust" his master's power. Just a thought. Hope I helped. Marroc __________________ Hail to the Lords of Angmar, for we are the true power!

12-12-2003, 06:36 PM	#7
Eol Telemnar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At my house, on my computer (where else would I be? Posts: 89	Well, Going back to the original question. No, Sauron would not want to. And in middle earth, the world of me is not in good shape. I don't think there are nine more Kings of men to be turned to Nazgul. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Eol Telemnar, The Dark Elf , Has Spoken, Heed My words well. Peace go with you.

09-16-2003, 01:06 AM	#2
Gwaihir the Windlord Essence of Darkness Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Evermore Posts: 1,420	Obviously not. Although it appears that the Nine probably rested with Sauron, and were probably not carried around by the Nazgul themselves, the Rings were not merely responsible for making the Ringwraiths 'appear'; the reason that they stayed devoted to Sauron was their unbreakable connection with him through the Nine. While the Rings themselves were with Sauron (we don't actually know this for sure, by the way), each Ring was stilled 'owned' by a Nazgul. They were not designed for more than one wearer. Were Sauron somehow to do this, I would guess that each Nazgul or neo-Nazgul would be quite substantially weaker than they were with the normal one Ring per wraith. The sustained power would have to be dissipated amongst them all, of course. But the Nine Rings did not work this way; one owner, and total devotion with that owner -- and of course with the Lord of the Rings, Sauron, with whom by the Rings a channel to each Nazgul was maintained.

09-16-2003, 05:18 AM	#3
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,694	I think the result of such an prozess would have been a mortal combat between the Nazgûl and the wearer of his Ring. Think of the relations between Gollum - Bilbo, Bilbo - Frodo (the scene in Imlardris), Gollum - Frodo, Frodo - Sam (in the Tower of Cirith Ungol). In all this cases the processor of old had not be totally enslaved to the ring and to the habbit of evil as the Nazgûl had been. Respectfully Findegil

12-14-2003, 01:49 PM	#8
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Eol, don't dredge up old threads just to agree with the posts of previous members. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-14-2003, 03:26 PM	#9
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	I don't know where we get this idea that Sauron kept the Nine Rings in his possession during the Third Age. In the Council of Elrond chapter, Gandalf explicitly says, "The Nine the Nazgul keep." Sure, somebody (I can't remember who offhand) says Sauron "holds the Seven and the Nine," but that doesn't mean they're always with him, and he can still control the Nazgul without holding their Rings (or so we must presume). __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

12-14-2003, 07:55 PM	#10
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 336	I was thinking briefly about what would happen if Sauron somehow got a few new rings and handed them out... but then, I doubt he could make them, they wouldn't really be bound to the One... and besides, I guess Nazguls are like coal... you really have to wait for them to come out right. Lindril (and they burn well too) Arvilya __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

12-15-2003, 10:30 PM	#11
Amoki Guest Posts: n/a	I'm not sure if Sauron needed to physically have the rings to control the Nazgul. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Nazgul sort of disappear when Sauron couldn't take physical form? They could be somewhat connected.

12-16-2003, 12:01 AM	#12
Keeper of Dol Guldur Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 315, CNY Boys and girls. Posts: 405	Since Frodo saw rings on the hands of the Nazgul when he was in their realm of ethereal appearance, I would maintain that the rings themselves phased out of physical reality along with the wraithes themselves. The jewelry likely was what kept them in that state of not-being. I think the question would be, when the Witch-King was destroyed, did his ring magically zap back to Sauron, and if then could Sauron do it again? And I'd have to say a resounding no. By severing the Witch-King's magical sinews, Merry and Eowyn seemed to have also severed his spirits link with the physical realm (it may not have existed there, but it had a link, and that's why it could be clothed in the garb of the Ringwraith), and so the ring would in turn be trapped, severed from the material world along with him. __________________ "I come from yonder...Have you seen Baggins? Baggins has left, he is coming. He is not far away. I wish to find him. If he passes will you tell me? I will come back with gold." - Khamul the Easterling

12-16-2003, 05:39 PM	#13
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I agree. When Eowyn and Merry destroyed the Witch-king, they did so completely, effectively severing all bonds or ties that he, or anything that was a part of him, had with the world. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.