is elven remarriage having two spouses? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Amarinth · 03-07-2002, 12:37 PM

i've often wondered why the high king finwe of all the quendi remarried after the life of his first wife miriel(? don't have my silm with me right now to check) was virtually drained off by the birth of fiery feanor. what happens when miriel and finwe are both eventually released from the halls of mandos? finwe's second wife indis the vanyar must surely still be alive, and so, shall they all live together as husband and wives? are there any other instances in the silmarillion or in any of tolkien's works where an elf had remarried?

---------------------------------------------
every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse

Maeglin · 03-07-2002, 12:47 PM

Uhmm...

You know, that's a really good question. Not to be answerd by my, then [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].

Joy · 03-07-2002, 12:57 PM

Excellent question, thought about that myself.

amyrlis · 03-07-2002, 01:19 PM

I guess I always assumed that Miriel was never "healed" and therefore never released from the Halls. Just a guess though.

***Mithadan*** · 03-07-2002, 02:46 PM

Per Morgoth's Ring, the Valar ruled that if a spouse dies and decides to never emerge from Mandos, the surviving spouse may remarry. In the case of Finwe and Miriel, Miriel initially so elected. However, after Finwe's death, it was Finwe who elected to remain in Mandos and Miriel emerged. It is hinted that Finwe wanted to be with Feanor.

This comes from a series of heavily philosophical writings by JRRT and is not as simple as set forth above.

Pips · 03-07-2002, 05:28 PM

Good question. Elves are so confussing.

Aralaithiel · 03-07-2002, 05:45 PM

I am glad I was not the only one who wondered about that! Thanks for enlightening us, Mithadan! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Amarinth · 03-07-2002, 07:53 PM

thanks too, mithadan, that's really interesting to know [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. is morgoth's ring a publication? see, where i come from, we don't get it; you'd be lucky to chance a good copy of the silm in the bookstores.

anyway, it must have been a matter of foresight for the valar to have granted a second marriage to finwe, that is, to introduce some balance, mitigating factor if you will, to the eventual upheavals caused by feanor...

---------------------------------------------
every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse

***Mithadan*** · 03-07-2002, 08:01 PM

Morgoth's Ring is Volume 10 of the History of Middle Earth series. Try our bookstore linked to our main page. It and Peoples of Middle Earth (HoME 12) are the 2 best volumes of the series.

Thingol · 03-07-2002, 09:12 PM

I'm on BoLT 2 Mithadan, does it matter if I read the HoME sereis out of order?

***Mithadan*** · 03-08-2002, 08:16 AM

Probably not. There's a lot of repetition in HoME 4 and 5 though there's interesting stuff in both. You can safely skip around and still enjoy the books.

Nufaciel · 03-08-2002, 09:49 AM

Yeah, you don't have to read HoME in order. I skip around to different books in the series all the time to find out what I need to know.

03-07-2002, 12:37 PM	#1
Amarinth Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: realm of agonized volcanoes Posts: 113	is elven remarriage having two spouses? i've often wondered why the high king finwe of all the quendi remarried after the life of his first wife miriel(? don't have my silm with me right now to check) was virtually drained off by the birth of fiery feanor. what happens when miriel and finwe are both eventually released from the halls of mandos? finwe's second wife indis the vanyar must surely still be alive, and so, shall they all live together as husband and wives? are there any other instances in the silmarillion or in any of tolkien's works where an elf had remarried? --------------------------------------------- every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse __________________ pity this busy monster,manunkind, not / -progress is a comfortable disease;/ your victim (death and life safely beyond) / plays with the bigness of his littleness ---ee cummings

03-07-2002, 12:47 PM	#2
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Uhmm... You know, that's a really good question. Not to be answerd by my, then [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

03-07-2002, 12:57 PM	#3
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,014	Excellent question, thought about that myself. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

03-07-2002, 01:19 PM	#4
amyrlis Wight Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Helcaraxe Posts: 210	I guess I always assumed that Miriel was never "healed" and therefore never released from the Halls. Just a guess though. __________________ "Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."

03-07-2002, 02:46 PM	#5
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,314	Per Morgoth's Ring, the Valar ruled that if a spouse dies and decides to never emerge from Mandos, the surviving spouse may remarry. In the case of Finwe and Miriel, Miriel initially so elected. However, after Finwe's death, it was Finwe who elected to remain in Mandos and Miriel emerged. It is hinted that Finwe wanted to be with Feanor. This comes from a series of heavily philosophical writings by JRRT and is not as simple as set forth above. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

03-07-2002, 05:28 PM	#6
Pips Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Brandyhall, Texas Posts: 67	Good question. Elves are so confussing.

03-07-2002, 05:45 PM	#7
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	I am glad I was not the only one who wondered about that! Thanks for enlightening us, Mithadan! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

03-07-2002, 07:53 PM	#8
Amarinth Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: realm of agonized volcanoes Posts: 113	thanks too, mithadan, that's really interesting to know [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. is morgoth's ring a publication? see, where i come from, we don't get it; you'd be lucky to chance a good copy of the silm in the bookstores. anyway, it must have been a matter of foresight for the valar to have granted a second marriage to finwe, that is, to introduce some balance, mitigating factor if you will, to the eventual upheavals caused by feanor... --------------------------------------------- every man's life is a path to the truth -- hesse __________________ pity this busy monster,manunkind, not / -progress is a comfortable disease;/ your victim (death and life safely beyond) / plays with the bigness of his littleness ---ee cummings

03-07-2002, 08:01 PM	#9
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,314	Morgoth's Ring is Volume 10 of the History of Middle Earth series. Try our bookstore linked to our main page. It and Peoples of Middle Earth (HoME 12) are the 2 best volumes of the series. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

03-07-2002, 09:12 PM	#10
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	I'm on BoLT 2 Mithadan, does it matter if I read the HoME sereis out of order? __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

03-08-2002, 08:16 AM	#11
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,314	Probably not. There's a lot of repetition in HoME 4 and 5 though there's interesting stuff in both. You can safely skip around and still enjoy the books. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

03-08-2002, 09:49 AM	#12
Nufaciel Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 133	Yeah, you don't have to read HoME in order. I skip around to different books in the series all the time to find out what I need to know. __________________ Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.