Merry & Pippin - Good Or Bad - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tarlondeion Of Gondolin · 12-21-2001, 01:16 PM

Do u think that Merry and Pippin played a good or a bad role in the LOTR because it could be argued that they played a bad role at least in FOTR, because at Bree one of them mentioned the name of Baggins which caused Frodo to accidentily put on the ring. Another went outside and was seen by the Black Riders. One of them also awoke the Balrog in Moria when they dropped the stone down the well. one of them looked into the Palantir. What do u think? Sorry, but I can never remember which one did what!

Fenrir · 12-21-2001, 01:53 PM

Well, Pippin looked into the palantir in TT but that turned out alright because he was mistaken for the ringbearer. Merry was found by the riders but since they already knew Frodo was staying at the Prancing Pony no harm was done. Pippin dropped the stone into the well, the company might have made it out intact if it hadn't been for that. However, if Gandalf had survived his encouter with the balrog he would be unable to defeat Saruman. The hobbits get captured by orcs to be found by Treebeard, their arrival causes the ents to attack Isengard. Later, Merry helps destroy the Witch-King and Pippin saves Faramir. Bringing Merry and Pippin along was definately a good thing.

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

Elrian · 12-22-2001, 12:02 AM

I would say that they played a good role, without Merry, Eowyn would not have defeated the Witchking, and without Pippin, Faramir would have been dead.

Azaelia of Willowbottom · 12-22-2001, 04:18 PM

I think that Merry and Pippin are good. Foolish, yes, but generally good. I'd even go so far as to say that Pippin is my favorite character. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Son of Gondor · 12-22-2001, 07:46 PM

I think Merry and Pippen only go to prove that there comes a time when precise planning and strategy will fail and that is where an unexpected and lucky hero will emerge

12-30-2001, 11:41 AM

Hello! I'm new, please don't eat me. I'll sit in my corner quietly, if you like. *hides*
__
I think that Merry and Pippin played quite a good role, despite their foolishness and quirks. As has been said, without Merry, Eowyn might not have lived, and Merry and Pippin served many nobles and saved many lives in Return of the King.
They also proved, in The Two Towers, to be a bit of comic relief in a very dire situation. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Pippin · 12-30-2001, 12:05 PM

Pippin I admit did kinda mess things up a little [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] but alla the consequences turned out good. even in Moria, if Gandalf hadn't fallen he wouldn't have defeated Saruman, as someone said earlier. but why Elrond was SOOOOO against Pippin going kinda made me wonder. If he knew he woas gonna cause trouble, ie, Moria, the Palantir etc, then he must of known the good he would do too. And if he didn't know how useful he'd prove in the end, why the insistant "my heart forbodes his going" attitude?
any theories?

Elrian · 12-30-2001, 11:46 PM

In the book he had hoped to send at least one of them back to the shire to warn their people.

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 12-31-2001, 02:35 AM

Yes. I think also the fact he was younger than the other Hobbits, as Elrond mentions. I get the impression didn't want to send one so young into danger, especially danger he didn't understand. Rather fatherly of him actually.

Elrian · 12-31-2001, 03:17 AM

I hadn't remembered that, but your right, he had fostered so many since the time of Valandil it was like second nature to him. And he was good at it.

Rose Cotton · 01-01-2002, 10:23 AM

The books just woudn't have been the same without Pipin and Merry. The hobbits add a great touch to the story. Thier screw-ups made the story likable. And it all worked out in the end. They became very respectible people.

Mr. Frodo · 04-21-2002, 11:00 PM

They were very good to bring along in the end, but they had a lot of growing up to do first. Pippin didn't listen to orders and saved Faramir. Merry did the same and saved Eowyn and killed the Witchking. And it was really the two of them that were in charge during the scouring of the Shire. They have a way of doing the right thing even though it may not seem like it at the time.

Ms. Took · 04-22-2002, 04:32 PM

Even though they did mess things up a lot, they had good intentions. They really did want to help Frodo. Besides everything they did wrong worked out in the end.

Lomelinde · 04-22-2002, 06:49 PM

I know that Fenrir and a couple others pointed this out, but Pippin and Merry were kind of driving forces in the story, causing things to happen which at first glance seemed awful and tragic, but then turned out to be for the best. The primary example that comes to my mind is Gandalf's fall. Pippin did indirectly cause Gandalf's "death" by awakening the Balrog, but if Gandalf hadn't fallen, he would never have become the "White Rider", able to defeat Saruman and help greatly in winning the ensuing battles. So even though on first impression, the two crazy albeit lovable hobbits may seem like mistakes, they actually set in motion some pretty big events.

Wormtongue · 04-22-2002, 08:31 PM

Merry and Pippin were an integral part of the tale of the Ring. With their help, directly or otherwise, they managed to have a hand in some major events (Eowen,Ents,etc). I'm still not positive that the rock thrown down the hole "awakened" the Balrog. Maybe he was eating an orc and the stone bounced of his nose...I don't know.
The mischeivous hobbits brought light to the tale during some awfully dark spots, and overall, did more good than ill. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

pippin_took0 · 04-23-2002, 12:08 PM

I think they were good - without them the Ents would not have been roused and they wouldn't have destroyed Isenguard.

Starbreeze · 04-23-2002, 01:21 PM

Well in the film I thought Merry was evil, but in the books I think they were just being hobbits, and everyone makes mistakes. In the end I think they were good.

Nufaciel · 04-23-2002, 02:22 PM

I'm not sure what you thought was evil about Merry in the movie. Could you tell us? I'm kinda curious...I never really thought about that.

I think that they were good, but naive and foolish, but without the things that they did, much could have gone wrong.

04-23-2002, 07:30 PM

I really dont understand something:why did they make Merry and Pippin a pair of bumbling morons in the movie? huh? At least in the books, they had 1/2 a brain. I'm not saying they're stupid, but they coulda made them act "smarter" in the movie. Otherwise, Merry and Pippin are cool.

Nevfeniel · 04-23-2002, 07:42 PM

Welcome to the Downs, KevinThomas!
BTW, I agree with you completely! I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll say it again: Merry and Pippin are not as clumsy as Peter Jackson made them out to be. That is one of my few rants against the movie.

Child of the 7th Age · 04-23-2002, 10:54 PM

A three-hour movie has to simplify something to cram everything in and this is one of those things that gets ironed out a bit. Actually, I think Pippin is an especially appealing character because he is so young, still learning and growing. This contrast also comes over better in the book than the movie. In the movie, you have no sense that Frodo is considerably older than his companions, particularly Pippin. As such, you lose something of the contrast in age between the characters.

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 04-27-2002, 03:29 PM

If Pippin hadn't looked into the Palantir, he wouldn't have ridden ahead with Gandalf to Minas Trith, and he wouldn't have saved Faramir.

12-21-2001, 01:16 PM	#1
Tarlondeion Of Gondolin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Gondolin the fair Posts: 94	Merry & Pippin - Good Or Bad Do u think that Merry and Pippin played a good or a bad role in the LOTR because it could be argued that they played a bad role at least in FOTR, because at Bree one of them mentioned the name of Baggins which caused Frodo to accidentily put on the ring. Another went outside and was seen by the Black Riders. One of them also awoke the Balrog in Moria when they dropped the stone down the well. one of them looked into the Palantir. What do u think? Sorry, but I can never remember which one did what!

12-21-2001, 01:53 PM	#2
Fenrir Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nevrast Posts: 103	Well, Pippin looked into the palantir in TT but that turned out alright because he was mistaken for the ringbearer. Merry was found by the riders but since they already knew Frodo was staying at the Prancing Pony no harm was done. Pippin dropped the stone into the well, the company might have made it out intact if it hadn't been for that. However, if Gandalf had survived his encouter with the balrog he would be unable to defeat Saruman. The hobbits get captured by orcs to be found by Treebeard, their arrival causes the ents to attack Isengard. Later, Merry helps destroy the Witch-King and Pippin saves Faramir. Bringing Merry and Pippin along was definately a good thing. [ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: Fenrir ] __________________ Fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

12-22-2001, 12:02 AM	#3
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	I would say that they played a good role, without Merry, Eowyn would not have defeated the Witchking, and without Pippin, Faramir would have been dead. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

12-22-2001, 04:18 PM	#4
Azaelia of Willowbottom Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: By the Sea Posts: 449	I think that Merry and Pippin are good. Foolish, yes, but generally good. I'd even go so far as to say that Pippin is my favorite character. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ "Wherever I have been, I am back."

12-22-2001, 07:46 PM	#5
Son of Gondor Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 13	I think Merry and Pippen only go to prove that there comes a time when precise planning and strategy will fail and that is where an unexpected and lucky hero will emerge __________________ Have pity on poor Boromir, for to see the white tower fall would see the despair of men.

12-30-2001, 11:41 AM	#6
Primula Banks Guest Posts: n/a	Hello! I'm new, please don't eat me. I'll sit in my corner quietly, if you like. hides __ I think that Merry and Pippin played quite a good role, despite their foolishness and quirks. As has been said, without Merry, Eowyn might not have lived, and Merry and Pippin served many nobles and saved many lives in Return of the King. They also proved, in The Two Towers, to be a bit of comic relief in a very dire situation. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

12-30-2001, 12:05 PM	#7
Pippin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: I don't know, I'm lost! Posts: 85	Pippin I admit did kinda mess things up a little [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] but alla the consequences turned out good. even in Moria, if Gandalf hadn't fallen he wouldn't have defeated Saruman, as someone said earlier. but why Elrond was SOOOOO against Pippin going kinda made me wonder. If he knew he woas gonna cause trouble, ie, Moria, the Palantir etc, then he must of known the good he would do too. And if he didn't know how useful he'd prove in the end, why the insistant "my heart forbodes his going" attitude? any theories? __________________ never mind the pint.... does it come in gallons???

12-30-2001, 11:46 PM	#8
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	In the book he had hoped to send at least one of them back to the shire to warn their people. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

12-31-2001, 02:35 AM	#9
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Yes. I think also the fact he was younger than the other Hobbits, as Elrond mentions. I get the impression didn't want to send one so young into danger, especially danger he didn't understand. Rather fatherly of him actually. __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

12-31-2001, 03:17 AM	#10
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	I hadn't remembered that, but your right, he had fostered so many since the time of Valandil it was like second nature to him. And he was good at it. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-01-2002, 10:23 AM	#11
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	The books just woudn't have been the same without Pipin and Merry. The hobbits add a great touch to the story. Thier screw-ups made the story likable. And it all worked out in the end. They became very respectible people. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

04-21-2002, 11:00 PM	#12
Mr. Frodo Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End Posts: 13	They were very good to bring along in the end, but they had a lot of growing up to do first. Pippin didn't listen to orders and saved Faramir. Merry did the same and saved Eowyn and killed the Witchking. And it was really the two of them that were in charge during the scouring of the Shire. They have a way of doing the right thing even though it may not seem like it at the time. __________________ "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" (I'm the only girl in my school LOTR obssessed enough to call myself Mr. Frodo)

04-22-2002, 04:32 PM	#13
Ms. Took Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Great Smials Posts: 63	Even though they did mess things up a lot, they had good intentions. They really did want to help Frodo. Besides everything they did wrong worked out in the end. __________________ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars -Oscar Wilde Check out my website. http://groups.msn.com/pippinfanclub

04-22-2002, 06:49 PM	#14
Lomelinde Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ha! Wouldn't you like to know? Posts: 80	I know that Fenrir and a couple others pointed this out, but Pippin and Merry were kind of driving forces in the story, causing things to happen which at first glance seemed awful and tragic, but then turned out to be for the best. The primary example that comes to my mind is Gandalf's fall. Pippin did indirectly cause Gandalf's "death" by awakening the Balrog, but if Gandalf hadn't fallen, he would never have become the "White Rider", able to defeat Saruman and help greatly in winning the ensuing battles. So even though on first impression, the two crazy albeit lovable hobbits may seem like mistakes, they actually set in motion some pretty big events. __________________ The Dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark, drunk, blindfolded and hanging upside down from a tree.

04-22-2002, 08:31 PM	#15
Wormtongue Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 17	Merry and Pippin were an integral part of the tale of the Ring. With their help, directly or otherwise, they managed to have a hand in some major events (Eowen,Ents,etc). I'm still not positive that the rock thrown down the hole "awakened" the Balrog. Maybe he was eating an orc and the stone bounced of his nose...I don't know. The mischeivous hobbits brought light to the tale during some awfully dark spots, and overall, did more good than ill. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ "Heroes await me,my enemies ride fast, Knowing not this ride's their last. Saddle my horse as I drink my last ale, Bowstring and steel will prevail..." +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Manowar

04-23-2002, 12:08 PM	#16
pippin_took0 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle Earth Posts: 82	I think they were good - without them the Ents would not have been roused and they wouldn't have destroyed Isenguard.

04-23-2002, 01:21 PM	#17
Starbreeze Ghost of a Smile Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mirkwood - Middle Earth Posts: 389	Well in the film I thought Merry was evil, but in the books I think they were just being hobbits, and everyone makes mistakes. In the end I think they were good. __________________ Do not tamper with the affairs of wizards, they are not all that subtle - Terry Pratchett To write is to make dreams, to make dreams is to awaken the fantasy of the mind, to awaken the mind is to be a master.

04-23-2002, 02:22 PM	#18
Nufaciel Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 133	I'm not sure what you thought was evil about Merry in the movie. Could you tell us? I'm kinda curious...I never really thought about that. I think that they were good, but naive and foolish, but without the things that they did, much could have gone wrong. __________________ Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.

04-23-2002, 07:30 PM	#19
KevinThomas Guest Posts: n/a	I really dont understand something:why did they make Merry and Pippin a pair of bumbling morons in the movie? huh? At least in the books, they had 1/2 a brain. I'm not saying they're stupid, but they coulda made them act "smarter" in the movie. Otherwise, Merry and Pippin are cool.

04-23-2002, 07:42 PM	#20
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	Welcome to the Downs, KevinThomas! BTW, I agree with you completely! I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll say it again: Merry and Pippin are not as clumsy as Peter Jackson made them out to be. That is one of my few rants against the movie. __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

04-23-2002, 10:54 PM	#21
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	A three-hour movie has to simplify something to cram everything in and this is one of those things that gets ironed out a bit. Actually, I think Pippin is an especially appealing character because he is so young, still learning and growing. This contrast also comes over better in the book than the movie. In the movie, you have no sense that Frodo is considerably older than his companions, particularly Pippin. As such, you lose something of the contrast in age between the characters. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

04-27-2002, 03:29 PM	#22
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	If Pippin hadn't looked into the Palantir, he wouldn't have ridden ahead with Gandalf to Minas Trith, and he wouldn't have saved Faramir. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.