The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2008, 11:44 AM   #1
zxcvbn
Wight
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In front of my PC
Posts: 164
zxcvbn has just left Hobbiton.
Foolish Sauron...

Sauron used the Great Rings to enslave nine Kings of Men who later became his greatest servants, the Nazgul. Now, the question is, seeing how the nazgul were far deadlier and more loyal than any living servants, why didn't Sauron forge more Great Rings to distribute to his many human servants? This way he could have had hundreds of Nazgul at his command.

No, I'm not joking. What are your opinions?
zxcvbn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 11:57 AM   #2
TheGreatElvenWarrior
Mighty Quill
 
TheGreatElvenWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Walking off to look for America
Posts: 2,276
TheGreatElvenWarrior has been trapped in the Barrow!
Zxcvbn, Sauron helped in making 20 rings 19 of those were not the Master Ring. So he thought that he would have 19 wraiths, not just nine. Besides, it probably took a lot of power making those anyway.
__________________
The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.
TheGreatElvenWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 01:02 PM   #3
The Might
Guard of the Citadel
 
The Might's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,237
The Might is a guest at the Prancing Pony.The Might is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
I don't think he could make such rings by himself. Think about it, if he had the possibility to make such things then he could have created hundreds, thousands even. But he needed the smiths of Eregion to make them for him.

Indeed he made the One, but the One is totally different from the others, it is the Ring that controls all the others.
And when he told the Elves to make them he probably thought that this quantity would be enough for him to enslave all the free people of M-e.

Quote:
For in that time he was not yet evil to behold, and they received his aid and grew mighty in craft, whereas he learned all their secrets, and betrayed them, and forged secretly in the Mountain of Fire the One Ring to be their master.
So clearly he did learn some things from the Elves of Eregion.

Or maybe he simply was not able to control more with the One Ring...although I don't think this is stated anywhere.
__________________
“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown
The Might is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 01:28 PM   #4
William Cloud Hicklin
Loremaster of Annúminas
 
William Cloud Hicklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,301
William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Modest correction: Sauron had no role at all in the making of the Three. And his plan was to have Dwarf-wraiths as well, presumably the kings of each Folk; but he erred, since although Dwarves are 'mortal' they just don't do the wraith thing.
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
William Cloud Hicklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 05:57 PM   #5
Lord Halsar
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL!
Posts: 77
Lord Halsar has just left Hobbiton.
Dark-Eye

Indeed. And this topic has come up in another thread.
"A 10th Nazgul?" was the name I believe. An interesting thread that I had my part in.
__________________
My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...
Lord Halsar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2008, 03:55 PM   #6
Groin Redbeard
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Groin Redbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope!
Posts: 1,677
Groin Redbeard is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Groin Redbeard is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior View Post
Zxcvbn, Sauron helped in making 20 rings 19 of those were not the Master Ring. So he thought that he would have 19 wraiths, not just nine. Besides, it probably took a lot of power making those anyway.
Correct Elven Warrior! Sauron mingled his blood and soul into the one Ring; it is quite possible he did the same, to a lesser degree, with the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli
Modest correction: Sauron had no role at all in the making of the Three. And his plan was to have Dwarf-wraiths as well, presumably the kings of each Folk; but he erred, since although Dwarves are 'mortal' they just don't do the wraith thing.
Hehe, good ol' dwarves!
__________________
I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men!
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Groin Redbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2008, 10:43 PM   #7
Gwathagor
Shade with a Blade
 
Gwathagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A Rainy Night In Soho
Posts: 2,545
Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Send a message via AIM to Gwathagor Send a message via MSN to Gwathagor Send a message via Skype™ to Gwathagor
First, I agree that making Rings of Power was probably a lot of work. Not sometihng you do for fun.

Second, you can't just go around handing out rings to everyone. It reduces the coolness of having one, because it's no longer an exclusive club.

Third, it's easier for Sauron to control the races of Middle-earth through a few powerful subordinates who will theoretically (didn't work out, of course) do your bidding to the letter. It's less management for the big man. Delegation is an essential leadership quality.
__________________
Stories and songs.
Gwathagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2008, 09:20 AM   #8
zxcvbn
Wight
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In front of my PC
Posts: 164
zxcvbn has just left Hobbiton.
With the exception of the One all the Rings were forged by the Elves with Sauron's instruction, and I doubt they poured any of their spirits into it like he did. So if Sauron learned all their secrets, why didn't he forge more Rings? Given the power of the Nazgul, better to have more of them than less.
zxcvbn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2008, 10:19 AM   #9
William Cloud Hicklin
Loremaster of Annúminas
 
William Cloud Hicklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,301
William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Remember Feanor, and Yavanna? In the Tolkienverse some Great Works can only be made once, and never repeated. If Sauron were capable of making another Ring surely he would have made another One, first off!
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
William Cloud Hicklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2008, 10:38 AM   #10
zxcvbn
Wight
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In front of my PC
Posts: 164
zxcvbn has just left Hobbiton.
But Celebrimbor created many Rings, so that atleast was a Great Work that could be repeated. Sauron was certainly much greater than Celebrimbor, and so could have created many more.
zxcvbn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2008, 11:10 AM   #11
Elmo
Pittodrie Poltergeist
 
Elmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 641
Elmo has just left Hobbiton.
The One Ring was much more powerful then the lesser rings
as it could control or at least limit what they could do.
__________________
As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.
Elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2008, 11:37 AM   #12
Gwathagor
Shade with a Blade
 
Gwathagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A Rainy Night In Soho
Posts: 2,545
Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Gwathagor is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Send a message via AIM to Gwathagor Send a message via MSN to Gwathagor Send a message via Skype™ to Gwathagor
Quote:
Originally Posted by zxcvbn View Post
With the exception of the One all the Rings were forged by the Elves with Sauron's instruction, and I doubt they poured any of their spirits into it like he did. So if Sauron learned all their secrets, why didn't he forge more Rings? Given the power of the Nazgul, better to have more of them than less.
I think not. The power of the Nazgul was fear, and if EVERYBODY is a nazgul, then they aren't scary anymore. Giving rings to that many people would also involve diminishing the power of each, as power can't just be created. It has to come from somewhere, in this case out of the ringmaker. Like a physics equation.
__________________
Stories and songs.
Gwathagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2008, 06:33 PM   #13
The Might
Guard of the Citadel
 
The Might's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,237
The Might is a guest at the Prancing Pony.The Might is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Great argument WCH, and this seems to go well with my earlier thought.
He simply was not able to.

I disagree there Gwathagor, I am sure that if he could he would have made more Rings to have more Wraiths and I agree on the power part. Simply look at what happens in LotR - to have complete control of them he had to take their Rings away from them. Which means he wasn't that great to control thousands, he might not have really handled 10.

I am sure he planned it very well when he gave the Rings to others. He knew how much he could afford to do and this is how much he did. As such a 10th Nazgul might have been useful, but no longer quite possible. After all, Maiar have their limits too.
__________________
“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown
The Might is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:52 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.