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Old 01-22-2002, 10:11 PM   #121
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If you have something worth while to say, then state your business, MenRweak. If not, go to the "newcomers" forum and harass people there. This thread is not meant for assaults.
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Old 01-22-2002, 10:55 PM   #122
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Rhud,<BR>sorry, didn't mean to get you so worked up over my comment. Don't take it personally, sweetie. I have friends who have been scathed by the Sep 11th attacks, so I am being biased about it.<P>Thing is, I see both sides of all the arguments. Some moments in the movie really made me cringe, but others were great. You can't have a perfect package. It'd be really boring, and the project would never get completed till maybe the next millenia. And if it were perfect, like the book - some may claim, there'd be no point to this discussion, would it.
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Old 01-23-2002, 12:13 AM   #123
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Online Forums are perfect places for debate. I am debating your opinion in the way I see fit. This is my business. What is yours?<P>By the way, newcomers would most benefit from your sage observations far more than mine. I have not the wisdom yet to make this revelation:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Eol:<BR><STRONG> <BR>LOTR books were better off left alone and not turned into a cinema , commerical draw. Tolkien's stuff is way too detailed to make a goood movie.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Someone in the newcomers forum may ask you an uninformed question like...why? For myself, I have yet to see any supporting argument. Maybe on your web site...<p>[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: MenRWeak ]
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Old 01-23-2002, 09:33 AM   #124
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MenRWeak,<BR>Have you met our friend Eve? You would be perfect together!<P>Your second to last statement made me laugh the hardest! It's funny to think that <I>you</I> believe thinking the movie stunk is actually incompatible, logically or in demeanor, with "comments directed at actor's abilities and improper charaterizations". I was addressing your all-to-familiar illogical attempt to diffuse my and other's opinions. ...what was your point...I didn't get it?<P> Furthermore, I will openly admit that some of the comments I made at the beginning of this thread were harsh. For that I apologize (not to you, to those whom I was speaking). But saying that the movie stunk is hardly harsh or rude. What should my title have been so that you would be less aroused? Perhaps: "People who are not purists but believe that the film was less than perfect...".<BR> Look, it is obvious to the readers of this forum and others that you are predisposed to argumentation rather than discussing JRRT (movie or no). I'd love to discuss something Tolkien-esque with you. Upholding this sarcastic tone while trying to learn you some edicate is boring. So if you would be so kind as to express your opinion about the movie, please do so. Otherwise, follow Eol's advice.<P>By the way...Have you expressed your opinion about anything beside how you feel about some of us?
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Old 01-23-2002, 09:43 PM   #125
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This topic is getting more and more out of the normal scheme serious and friendly Barrow-Downs discussions.<BR>If your only goal lies in the satirical intent of yours, you should think twice about posting that in first place.<P>Apart from that, one thing that has become apparent (and was hardly surprising anyway), is that the movie is debated heatedly because opinions diverge greatly. However, good discussions should not become a fight of words by people stubbornly clinging to an opinion without even checking it for polemic content, and even less for polemic presentation. These two latter things we want to avoid nevertheless.<P>I wonder what some people get out of a discussion where they would go as far as sarcasm or personal attacks only to perpetrate their personal opinion, hypothetically speaking.
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Old 01-24-2002, 09:33 PM   #126
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And the <I>wonderful</I> thread spills over onto the fourth page...I love simply being the commentator sometimes, it seems much safer, but alas, I have an <I>opinion</I> to share!<BR>MenRWeak-Y'know, I agree with you, but not with your approach. I LOVED the movie. I wish that everyone could have loved it as much as I did. I could argue about this 'till I foam at the mouth. Yet I attempt to disagree with Rhud & Co. (Hi Rhud!) in a mostly civil manner. Civility, I believe, is one of the defining characteristics of this forum. Perhaps it is not so on other forums, but here people generally (*ahem*) try to be as polite to each other as possible (with the exception of the dreadful <I>Gay Subtext</I> thread that had everyone's panties in a twist, ...But let us leave dark history behind) Stirring up controversy is exciting, but let's not do it so much that we turn from insightful discussion to something akin to cyberspace trench warfare.
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Old 01-24-2002, 09:53 PM   #127
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Well, one look at the title of the thread told me it was going to be a cat-fight, but I finally couldn't resist a peek. Four pages of this, eh?
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Old 01-25-2002, 08:11 AM   #128
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This discussion has heated up since I last posted. I had never been one to join discussions on the net, but I must support my fellow Tolkien fans who were disapointed by the film. This is one of the only mess. boards I've seen where people attempt to be courteous and respectful. THANK YOU!!!! Even though I did'nt like the movie overall, I must give credit where due. The panoramic landscapes were great!!! From what I understand, Mr. Jackson used the artwork from many of the past calendars as guides. I'm not sure what Minis Tirith will look like, but if it's half as good as the Pillars of the kings then it will be great.<BR>Scenery-great. Plot additions-lower than that dark hole the balrog came from.
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Old 01-25-2002, 08:25 AM   #129
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Lush speaks wisely.
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Old 01-25-2002, 09:12 AM   #130
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I was delighted to read the opinion of J. Michael Straczinski about the movie (in rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated), and I thought I would share it with you:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Saw it yesterday afternoon (with Harlan, who was there to review it for F&SF)<BR>at a theater in Sherman Oaks, and it's about as perfect a movie as I've ever<BR>seen. It was everything I hoped it would be, and just what I always saw in my<BR>mind's eye as I read the books.<P>I will almost certainly go back to see it again, especially once they begin<BR>running the trailer for The Two Towers sometime later in the run."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: The Mirrorball Man ]
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Old 01-25-2002, 10:26 AM   #131
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Who in the world is J. Michael Straczinski?
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Old 01-25-2002, 01:29 PM   #132
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Lush speaks wisely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As does Sharku. <P>J. Michael Straczinski is the creator of the sci-fi series <I>Babylon 5</I>, which, I'm told, owes a debt of inspiration to the prof and his works. If by "Harlan" he refers to Harlan Ellison, I shudder to think what his review was like. He's sort of a professional flame-artist.
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Old 01-25-2002, 01:55 PM   #133
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Well, If the guy knows Tolkien's stuff then I guess he's credible. But I personally think Babylon 5 stinks too.<P>Thanks for educating me though.
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Old 01-26-2002, 04:34 AM   #134
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ok I just have to stick my opion in here about the movie. I have read a lot of books in my time that have been turned in to movies. Yet out of all those books not one has ever really followed the book. They change so much of the scenes that the plot is the same but the way the story is told is different then the books. Fellowship of the rings is the first movie that has ever come out that was taken from the book and followed the book almost to the teeth. Granted they did make some altrations in certain areas but thats understand able. They have two hours to tell a story and as any one knows the book is very long.<BR> There was one scene that I felt they should have put in the movie but I understand why they didnt. Its the one were gimile gets the locket of hair. I though that part of the book was very powerful. It showed these two races and how they viewed each other then they realized that they werent so different after all. It was one of my favorit moments in the book.<BR> Now as for the actors. I think they did a wonderful job of playing there characters. Not once have I sat back and though who could have played that role better.<BR> Now the only some what let down was some of the special effects in the movie. Some of it was pretty chessy but for the most part they did a great job.<BR> To sum it all up in my opion this was a great movie. If they can do what they did in this one in the next two then Star Wars will be my second favorit movie of all times.<BR> This is just my opion how ever.
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Old 01-26-2002, 10:33 AM   #135
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I really like J. Michael Strazinski. Very good writer. I have to disagree with him on this one though. One thing the film has done is make me re-read all of my Tolkien books.<BR>And it made me look for Tolkien message boards. I'm an artist and I've done many illustrations from LOTR so I pay particular attention to detail. Maybe thats my problem. Try the BBC radio play. My library had them. They cut some out too, but I enjoyed it. 13 CD's. Not bad.
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Old 01-26-2002, 11:18 AM   #136
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So much contraversy! I will now have to stick my opinion in here as well! I thought the movie was done very well, there were some things that I thought should have been in the movie, and I didn't really like the expansions of Arwen's character, but overall the movie was wonderful! Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if you think the movie stinks, good for you! That is your opinion, and I have enjoyed expressing mine. I will soon hopefully be going to see the movie for the third time and as soon as the DVD comes out I will be buying it.
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Old 01-26-2002, 12:16 PM   #137
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Old 01-26-2002, 12:17 PM   #138
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Whhops, I meant Elvenglass.
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Old 01-26-2002, 05:42 PM   #139
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Thanks and don`t worry about it!
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Old 02-01-2002, 11:31 PM   #140
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"Follows the book to the teeth"? Did we see the same movie? There were changes galore! Not just condensation of the book, whole scenes and characters were changed. I hate the "creative license" given out to directors. Sure it's his project, but writing in whatever you want in the name of "political correctness", "movie flow" or some other lame excuse stinks. As for the scenery, excellent!!!
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Old 02-05-2002, 04:00 PM   #141
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Late again, but better late than never. I had to read this thread in two installments a week apart.<P>I had great hopes (more fool me). I enjoyed the movie AND was disappointed.<P>Enjoyments: <BR>1) "please don't turn me into somethin' unnatural"<BR>2) the balrog<BR>3) the ancestral statues<BR>4) Gandalf<BR>5) Sean Bean as Boromir and his outstanding death scene<P>Can live with:<BR>Liv Tyler as Arwen was anathema to me before I saw it, but given the creative license I knew they would be taking, that part didn't bug me.<P>Disappointments:<P>1)The spinning wizards was ridiculous<BR>2)I was disappointed with the Renaissance style magic used in the film (especially Saruman controlling Caradhras) which made it frankly (sorry for bringing it up Potteresque, when it COULD HAVE BEEN elven magic which is ART instead of SCIENTIFIC mumbo jumbo. But we westerns all too easily slip into the former without noticing it. <P>What bugged me most were:<BR>1) Frodo portrayed as a callow youth, all wide-eyed innocence <BR>2) Frodo as elf-friend totally absent <BR>3) Frodo does NOT perceive Galadriel's ring and ought to <BR>4) no Gimli/Galadriel friendly exchange
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Old 02-05-2002, 08:48 PM   #142
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I have high hopes that the director's cut DVD will make the movie a bit meatier.
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Old 02-06-2002, 08:27 AM   #143
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Me too! Any idea when that will be out and how much it might cost?
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Old 02-06-2002, 10:13 AM   #144
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it's going to be a juicy bit longer... but heck, i want it... man do i. <P>i don't CARE how much it costs!
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Old 02-06-2002, 10:37 AM   #145
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hehe. Me too.
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Old 02-08-2002, 10:47 PM   #146
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Do ya know how much trouble you can get into posting on other boards that you didn't like the movie!!!!!! I didn't like it. Not because of the omissions, not for changing Arwen's part, but because of the character assassination that went on! Elrond (Agent Smith) was mean. Galadriel was freaky. Aragorn came across as a defeated man rather than the heir to the throne of Gondor who is already fulfilling his purpose in defeating the enemy. Bilbo had dementia. I did like Frodo and the other hobbits and felt that they retained some character integrity. I liked Gandalf, too. I thought Saruman and that weird incident in Orthanc to be overacted and a little sad. I liked Boromir's interpretation, but come on, die already!! I loved Legolas, liked Gimli!
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Old 02-09-2002, 05:12 AM   #147
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Greetings,<P>This is only my 2nd post here, so I thought I'd jump right into fires of Orodruin with this topic!<BR> <P>I have read the books 25+ times in my life, like many here, once a year. It is something of a ritual now, although I read them twice in the last year in anticipation of the film. Also read 'The Hobbit' and 'The Silmarillion.'<P>I thought the movie was terrible. I thought that the first time I saw it, and I thought that the 20th time I saw it, last Tuesday.<BR> <P>Seriously: I've now seen the movie 20 times since Dec 18th. I think that the criticisms that many put forward here are valid to a certain degree, although I disagree with the conclusions drawn from them. For example, I think McKellan was perfect as Gandalf. The scene in Bag-End where he bangs his head? I think that scene was put in for a bit of comedy, but mainly to strongly contrast the physical size of the hobbits and Gandalf. People who haven't read the book don't know that hobbits' avg. height is around 3'6". The scene of Gandalf and Frodo going through Hobbiton, with the little kids running up behind asking for some fireworks was beautiful. The Shire was perfect. <P>Now, the first time I saw the movie, I came out of it overwhelmed, and trying to digest all that I had seen. I was kinda luke warm to it, and figured I should see it again. So, I went back a couple of days later, knowing what to expect, I just settled in (after a little 'Old Toby') and accepted the movie for what it was: A group of people's interpretation of a book. I love that book. It is my favourite, and I have been a voracious reader since I was 6. I am also a sound engineer and musician, and have been paying attention to how films are scored. So, I've gone back again and again, for many reasons, the least not being to study what Shore did with the music against the imagery. That is what I tell people who ask me how many times have I seen the film. 20 times seems a bit obsessive. 21 will be tomorrow. There is something different that moves me everytime I've seen it: The Shire; The Last Alliance; Rivendell; Moria; I always get the feeling, and this is after 20 viewings, that I have been transported to ME. Yes Bree is a bit dark; Yes, Aragorn doesn't seem at first to be the one to reclaim the throne; Yes, I was kind of annoyed at Frodo backing away in terror at the Witch King; Yes, I was annoyed at all the time spent in Isengard; Yes I was annoyed at the slight obfuscations of plot and thematic development. These were all paltry annoyances, IMO. The characterizations have 2 more films to develop, and I am sure they will. Frodo is more resolute at the end of FOTR; Aragorn has proved himself to be a mighty warrior; Boromir, what to say about Sean Bean's characterization? Boromir is the one membership of the Fellowship who I always had trouble warming up to. He was haughty, and always thinking of how best to please Denethor. PJ made his humanity manifest, and his death scene made me cry (more than once). That was a deviation from the text that actually enhanced the book, IMO. It is the only one I really accept as being 'necessary.' I also have trouble with the pacing and with the editing of the film. It ain't 'The Godfather,' in that regard. Pippin and Merry are going to grow up in the next two films. You have to remember that they are 'barely out of their irresponsible tweens' and they show it, especially Pip. I thought the scene in Moria where Pip twists the arrow and the whole corpse and chest go clanging through the depths of the mine to be hilarious. Yes, it was overkill, but it was funny. I also think Gimli got some character development happening in Moria. I think Rhys-Davies is perfect for the role. Galadriel...well, I liked that shot too. I think too many people have this image of the Elves as a race who like to sit around singing songs and baking waybread. They are powerful beings, only partially in the world of ME, and partially in the Blessed Realm. To watch Galadriel go postal like that, well, let's just say that I know lots of women who fit the description that Galadriel gives herself if she were to take the Ring: She knows full well the power of the Feminine to bind men to its will, and, as I've said, I've known a few women who were 'more treacherous than the sea!Stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me and despair!' I even told an ex-girlfriend that she should've tried out for the role of Galadriel. Yes, Lothlorien was spooky, unearthly. The track from the soundtrack, 'Lothlorien' is spooky, and it is probably my favourite song from the movie.<P>So, to sum up a barely coherent post (it is 6 AM), I have a number of problems with the adaptation, but I love the movie. I really feel sad for people who want to retch when they think about it. I really do, because I doubt this will be done again in our lifetimes.<P>============================<BR><I>"I know less than half of you as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you as well as you deserve."</I><p>[ December 02, 2002: Message edited by: Glenethor ]
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Old 02-09-2002, 02:50 PM   #148
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Glenethor:<P>You begin your post by saying that the movie was terrible, but you end by saying you love it. I'm confused...which is it? Did you change your mind during the post?<P>By the way, if I could get your email address that would be great: I am interested in pursuing a career in sound engineering.
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Old 02-09-2002, 04:08 PM   #149
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Hi,<P>Well, I was being ironic; I saw this comic strip a while back of these guys who were cutting down the movie, and they were all saying how much they hated the film, and then one of them asks "so how many time have you seen it?" Invariably, the answer was more than once. I've seen it around 20 times.<P>As for the sound engineer thang, I am self-taught, have a home studio. It pays the bills, and I don't have to say 'do you want fries with that?' Or, in my former profession, 'how does that make you feel?' I was making some decent coin on a recording/music website/bbs, but I sold it last summer. Running a place like this can be a major headache, dealing with all of the Egos. This is especially true when you have a few thousand musicians banging heads. Anyways...<P>I am sorry you hated the film. Truly. I am thinking of moving to New Zealand after I saw the locales.<P>Cheers,<P>Glenethor<P>================= =============================<P><I>"Never laugh at live Dragons"</I><p>[ December 02, 2002: Message edited by: Glenethor ]
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Old 02-09-2002, 04:31 PM   #150
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Hmmm... You think the movie is terrible yet you see it 20 times? You like pain? lol. I did'nt care for it and I saw it once. Actually my sister treated, so I made out pretty good! Raisinettes on her too. mmmm...<BR>chocolate....
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Old 02-09-2002, 04:42 PM   #151
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[irony]I hated it the first time and the 20th time I saw it. [/irony]<P>What are you, some Bracegirdle from Hardbottle?<BR>
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Old 02-09-2002, 11:09 PM   #152
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Rhudladion, I believe you are totally wrong in giving a negative review on the movie. First of all, your are biased on your review becuase you have read the books. And secondly, giving it a 1.5 out of 10. You gotta by kidding me!? How would you rate "Dude, wheres my car?" Haha! A 1.5 out of 10 is almost impossible to achieve. I can understand your points and all, but.. 1.5... sorry just cant get over that.
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Old 02-09-2002, 11:19 PM   #153
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Lord of the Rings for Dummies:<P>Dude, where's my ring?<BR>
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Old 02-10-2002, 06:28 PM   #154
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Wow, Glenethor, 20 TIMES! And I thought seeing it 5 times was hardcore. <BR>Now, multiply 20 by 3, and you get 60! (hurrah! I can count!) Which basically means that you've spent two and a half days watching this movie. <BR>Well, maybe if there were more close-ups of Aragron and Legolas (as opposed to Frodo, don't get me wrong, I <I>loved</I> Frodo, but after seeing the horrified expression on his face for the 50th time, I began to grow antsy, he was very unnerving. Good acting, I suppose, but still...) I would have done the same.<BR>Wait...The Two Towers is supposed to have <I>lots</I> of close-ups of Aragorn and Legolas. Which means...Gah! Perhaps they'll let me bring a cot to the movie theater?<p>[ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: Lush ]
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Old 02-10-2002, 08:33 PM   #155
Glenethor
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Hi Lush,<P>Yeah, 20 times. I have a number of personal reasons for that (which I will not utter here) but the <I>public</I> reasons are as stated: I am studying the musical scoring, and I just like to go to ME. I live downtown in a city, and I really shouldn't be. I hate cities, and have called them 'Mordor' ever since I first read the book. <P> Also, barring the chance that it will win a few Oscars, the movie is probably going to be taken off the screens relatively soon. I don't want to wait months to see it again, so I am 'filling up' as it were.<P>When I get the DVD, I assume I will be watching it more. As a matter of fact, I don't have a DVD player, or a large screen TV, but I intend to get these things for the release of the DVD.<BR> <P>So you swoon over Legolas and Aragorn, eh? I don't think that any theatre would allow you to take a cot in with you, but it never hurts to ask!<P> <P>I feel the same toward Arwen and Galadriel, although I am not as sure as Gimli or Eomer as to who is the more beautiful. I tend toward Galadriel, but she is a fairly daunting woman! <BR>
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Old 02-10-2002, 08:47 PM   #156
Glenethor
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BTW,<P>I've never gone to see a movie 20 times in my life. The closest was 'Rocky Horror' and I think I saw that 14 times over the course of 4 years or so. Out of all the times I've gone to see FoTR, there have only been a couple of moments where I felt that it wasn't worth my while to go see it. I usually go to matinees, so it is relatively cheap. <P>No, I've never done this before. Not with the 'Star Wars' movies, nor the 'Star Trek' movies. Not 'The Godfather' (my favourite drama until FoTR), not 'The Graduate' (my favourite comedy). FoTR is my favourite movie, and I suspect that it may only be supplanted by TTT and RoTK. As I said, I truly find it sad that there are some people who hate the film. Jackson <I>et al</I> have put their hearts and souls into this project, and the film reflects this love. However, they are artists, and artists have Egos. Hence, the changes. I think that some of the warts of this film make it more appealing. It is by no means a perfect film, but its heart comes through. That means more to me than being technically perfect. As a musician, I find perfectly produced music to be sterile and more of a reflection of the producer and engineers than the musicians themselves. Don't get me started on that.
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Old 02-11-2002, 12:40 AM   #157
Marileangorifurnimaluim
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To know real disappointment is to have been there in 1978, as a fan of Bakshi's 'American Pop' and 'Fritz the Cat', with my non-Tolkienite brother and my boyfriend, walking out trying to explain why that was <I>not</I> the Lord of the Rings. Mostly I was bewildered.. what did Bakshi do wrong exactly? His version was dark bordering on bleak, without charm or humor, bloodthirsty and angry. The hobbits, his main characters, looked like idiots. It was easy to slam it, but I started rereading the LotR to see, well, what would I do better? I guess you could consider this an invitation to the "Second-guessing Peter Jackson" thread.<P>-Maril
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Old 02-11-2002, 01:10 AM   #158
Glenethor
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Well, I was a fan of Bakshi. I was around 18 when that movie came out, and I was a pretty wild kid. I would've been completely gonzo on various substances, and so I thought the movie was pretty good when it came out, notwithstanding the ending. Due to my impatience for the FoTR to come out, I bought the Bakshi version in November. I could not finish watching it. Some scenes were ok, and a couple were borrowed by Jackson (the Wraiths slashing the bolsters, the first Black Rider sniffing them out as they hid in the tree roots).<P>Anyone want to buy a slightly 'pre-owned' (not even watched all the way through!) copy of Bakshi's version? C'mon, make me an offer? What? I cannot even pay anyone to take it off my hands???<P>
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Old 02-11-2002, 09:06 AM   #159
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Sorry to keep bringing this up, but Glenethor, I still don't get it. I mean I understand the irony that surrounds, not liking the movie and seeing it 20 times, but I still find all of your comments from each of your threads to be elusive and indefinite. <P>Straight up...did you like it or hate it?<P>Just want to make sure I get your opinion right.
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Old 02-11-2002, 10:18 AM   #160
Glenethor
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Straight up, I love it. I wouldn't spend in the neighbourhood of $160.00 to see a movie 20 times if I hated it. Would you? I'm crazy, but I am not rich.
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