TIG XCIII - Betrayal at Henneth Annûn (Game thread)

[Inziladun]

Quick impressions of the Agan-Boro matter leave me unlikely to vote either of them.

Agan still comes across as fairly shiny to me (which from past experience ought to make me nervous ).

And I see what Boro's about, even if I don't agree. At any rate, he's been quite active, so let's see what else he does. Hopefully the difficult matter he's dealing with will quickly resolve.

Now for the others.

x/d with Shasta and Glirdy

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Loslote

In that case, the only real suspect I've got toDay is G55, so I'll probably vote her.

You know, although your suspicion of me seems justified, you haven't considered that if you compare the amount of content provided by most other players to the amount of content provided by me you'll find them approximately equal. I've been much more chatty than others, though, so the number of posts kinda dilutes the impression.

Edit: xed since the post I quoted

[Aganzir]

GUILTY
Gal. I didn't really mind her until her sudden and desperate interest in my list which is just weird. What does it really matter?
Bom. I know this is way typical but I won't abstain from putting him here just because of it. If you suspect someone, state your reasons please.

INNOCENT
Shasta. Hasn't said a lot but I like him well enough. I don't know, it's just a gut feeling.
Lottie. I like her well enough for now.
Nat. Nothing alarming so far, actually I'm quite liking her gameplay.
Rune. Seems sensible enough and cannot really be blamed of opportunism - he tries to remain objective even though he doesn't really need to.
Inziladun. Someone said he's posting a lot without saying anything. I read his posts but they weren't really that bad even if they weren't overflowing with substance either. He looks passively innocent (apart from the former four who are actively so) and remains here because I refuse to vote for him.

EITHER
Boro. Gets the honour of topping my Either list. I grumbled about his behaviour before but it was out of principle rather than actual suspicion because I was pretty positive I knew at least partly what he was up to. He could set traps and baits regardless of role, and I need to see more before I'm willing to trust him.
Green. Is being herself. She comments vaguely on Boro & my argument, leaving a door open to further suspicion of us both but concluding with a statement of undecidedness. I won't deny my tendency to automatically see it as evil just because it's Greenie, but it's not actually suspicious.
Glirdan. Nothing.
Nogrod. Um?
sally. Nothing.

So. These are not based on a complete reread, they are serious, and they're still subject to change even today if I feel like it.

[satansaloser2005]

So, Galwolfriel, what are your plans for the Night?


EDIT: x'd since the start of the page

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You know, although your suspicion of me seems justified, you haven't considered that if you compare the amount of content provided by most other players to the amount of content provided by me you'll find them approximately equal. I've been much more chatty than others, though, so the number of posts kinda dilutes the impression.

Ah so we face the hard decision: should we vote for a suspicious-ish (and with day 1 reasons at that) loud player, or a submarine?

Personally I quite like to sink submarines, but once I've got it into my head that someone is suspicious, they will keep irking me until I know for sure.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You know, although your suspicion of me seems justified, you haven't considered that if you compare the amount of content provided by most other players to the amount of content provided by me you'll find them approximately equal. I've been much more chatty than others, though, so the number of posts kinda dilutes the impression.

My problem with your posting isn't so much that there's no substance, but that it seems to be trying to give the impression that there is, in fact, substance by bulking up what little substance there is - spreading one point over five posts without adding anything new at any point along the line, throwing out little comments that feel helpful but actually don't matter, that sort of thing. There's a difference between falsely "helpful" posts like yours and silly posts that make no pretense to helpfulness at all, in that the falsely "helpful" posts feel suspicious and silly posts feel more like something an innocent might do.

EDIT: xed with Agan

[Nogrod]

Oh Morgoth, I totally forgoth...

I actually came home some twenty minutes ago after a heavy two days of Youth Philosophy Convention I was one organiser of and sat down to my coach to have a small glass of brandy watching some College basketball before going to sleep... Oops.

Okay. I'll take a quick scroll. Half an hour left, right?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

What does it really matter?

Because I don't get it!

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

So, Galwolfriel, what are your plans for the Night?

Why, tearing somebody apart together with you, sallywolf.

No, I am not serious, I am unlikely to survive till the Night at all, and I am innocent.

Edit: xed since sally

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Seems Innocent Enough:
Boromir: I had a bit of an ambivalent feeling about his now infamous “Oldman Defence”, but since then he has been impressive. He has show keen analytical skills and it will interesting to see what he has to say later on, when there actually is something to analyse.
Aganzir: I could follow her reasoning in her first post and since then she has been excellent at dealing with the questions thrown her way.
Pommy: I liked the initial post as it provoked a serious response, even if it was made in jest. Haven’t committed to a path as the other two in this category, but on a day1 it is acceptable. Has voiced some concerns and generally I have a good feeling about her (also an acceptable reason on day1)

Haven’t made up my mind ye (but inclined to think of as innocent):
Shasta: Interesting comment he had about how Galadriel tried to dismiss the topic when it started to generate too much attention, has seemed reasonable. On the other hand he hasn’t done too much and could be a BN trying sneak by on being just active enough.
Loslote: What she says seems reasonable, I think her suspicions against Galadriel are completely valid and she voices some concerns that I share. Of course one could think of a scenario, where going after Galadriel on the basis (maybe) of what Aganzir said would be a BN ploy. . .but I think that is entirely implausible.
Inziladun: Maybe it is because he could relate to what I said about the sillines that makes me think possitivly about Inzil, but anyways there haven’t been anything sneaky. Again could of course be BN on the low.

Don’t know enough to have an opinion:
Glirdan
Nogrod
A Little Green

Voting Potential:
Galadriel55: My suspicion is based on the arguments of Lottie, Shasta and my own initial annoyance. The jumpiness/many but not very helpful posts, mixed with the attempts to dismiss one discussion, whilst on the same time going on and on about Aganzir’s silly/serious post does present a case. That being said I she is right now the one I am least likely to vote for, because none of the above are very incriminating and because she has shown willingness to participate and move the debate forward (to some degree).
BomT: Just not good enough. I don’t really care if it is his style or not. Goofing around an entire day and not really making a contribution (even though clearly present) is not something that I believe is acceptable.Right now BomT is my top candidate for a vote.
Sally: Exactly the same as BomT

It is fair enough that you don’t have time to participate much everyday, and I do not expect everybody to come up with highly original thoughts, but don’t waste the time of your fellow rangers by not taking the game seriously.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

No, I am not serious, I am unlikely to survive till the Night at all, and I am innocent.

Well, part of that is the truth, certainly....


EDIT: x'd with Rune

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay. I'll take a quick scroll. Half an hour left, right?

Yes.

Edit: xed since my last

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lottie

You know, I didn't even realize that I was following Agan's comment when I said mine until I saw that bolded in your post! It's the sort of thing you pass over when reading the rest of the post, but sticks in your mind...now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place, or just my subconcious picking that up.

I can't make up my mind on this one. The honesty looks good, but then again, I'm not sure what's so very terrible about picking up an idea someone else voiced first. Generally, if you're innocent and suspect somebody for a reason, realizing that someone else has made the same point shouldn't necessarily cause you to backtrack, least of all this hastily. Whose idea some point originally was doesn't really matter if you find it valid. Then, later on, she returns to suspecting Gal, which is logical, but doesn't make the post quoted above make any more sense.

Originally Posted by Boro

Now surely, one who was actively annoyed by the silly unproductivity of the early posts would not add further to it by making joke suspicions?

Well, looks like we have a problem then, given that that was pretty much what I read Agan's first post as. (Anyway, Boro, hope you're all right, you know we love you.)

Originally Posted by Agan

You're also starting to sound like Greenie. In a bad way.

Is that possible?

To summarize some general thoughts and feelings -

- Agan and Boro will both get a pass from me today, if only out of gratitude for giving us something to talk about, but more prudently because I find both of them rather more innocent than not at the moment, or if one is a wolf I'm not sure enough which it is.

- Actually, what was originally a purely Agan-Boro-thing has expanded to involve also Lottie and Gal. I am speaking, of course, of the affair of Lottie suspecting Gal, initially basing her suspicion unconsciously on Agan's, later bringing up further points against her. The points are valid enough, but the thing is, Gal is another very easy Day 1 lynch which makes me uncomfortable with the whole thing.


EDIT: Gah, x-ed with a host!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I can't make up my mind on this one. The honesty looks good, but then again, I'm not sure what's so very terrible about picking up an idea someone else voiced first. Generally, if you're innocent and suspect somebody for a reason, realizing that someone else has made the same point shouldn't necessarily cause you to backtrack, least of all this hastily. Whose idea some point originally was doesn't really matter if you find it valid. Then, later on, she returns to suspecting Gal, which is logical, but doesn't make the post quoted above make any more sense.

It wasn't so much that I was alarmed that Agan had made the same point, but that my first line was practically identical to hers ("Jumpy, are we?" and "Jumpy much?"). I found it a bit alarming that I could post something so similar to what she'd said and not have realized it - plus I didn't want to follow someone else's points so exactly and unconciously when I can't say for absolute certainty that she isn't trying to mislead me.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

Rune. Seems sensible enough and cannot really be blamed of opportunism - he tries to remain objective even though he doesn't really need to.

That's exactly my scruple with him, though! He's sensible, yes, but the trying to remain objective is opportunism of sorts, isn't it? Leaving all doors open, waiting to see which looks the most promising?

Anyway, I wouldn't mind voting Lottie, actually. Don't want to vote Gal, she doesn't look like a wolf to me. Or I might take Rune's lead and go for someone not contributing.


EDIT: x-ed with Lottie

[Galadriel55]

At least one of those people pushing my lynch is a wolf. That much is clear. If I survive I'll look at them carefully, especially those who were trying to pull the psychology trick of saying that I'm to be lynched for ABC reasons without saying it outright, or concluding that I'm not suspicious enough.

Edit: xed with Greenie

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Because I don't get it!

I live on paradoxes. I can try to explain it properly tomorrow if we're both alive, or if you're interested in hearing it even if you're dead, but more often than not I can't justify my way of thinking.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Is that possible?

No. It's not and you know it. And yes Gal it was a compliment, even if a slightly dubious one.

I am worried about Greenie because while she's as sharp as always, she actually strikes me as innocent which is far from typical, as those who've played with us before can attest.

Originally Posted by Loslote

It wasn't so much that I was alarmed that Agan had made the same point, but that my first line was practically identical to hers ("Jumpy, are we?" and "Jumpy much?"). I found it a bit alarming that I could post something so similar to what she'd said and not have realized it - plus I didn't want to follow someone else's points so exactly and unconciously when I can't say for absolute certainty that she isn't trying to mislead me.

I was myself slightly concerned about you because of what Greenie just said but figured out the similarity between our comments and decided to let it pass.

[Galadriel55]

This looks very last minute...

Edit: xed with Agan

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lottie

It wasn't so much that I was alarmed that Agan had made the same point, but that my first line was practically identical to hers ("Jumpy, are we?" and "Jumpy much?"). I found it a bit alarming that I could post something so similar to what she'd said and not have realized it - plus I didn't want to follow someone else's points so exactly and unconciously when I can't say for absolute certainty that she isn't trying to mislead me.

Fair enough, though I still find the "now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place" part rather sketchy.


EDIT: x-ed with Galagangal

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't recall ever seeing G55 mention the whole "dismissal" thing, even though I mentioned it twice. It may have gotten lost in the shuffle, but even so...

++G55

or

++G55

if Pitchmod prefers the red persuasion.

[Loslote]

Since I dislike last-minute vote scrambles (especially after last game!):

++G55

EDIT: xed with Shasta

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Bom Tombadillo

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

That's exactly my scruple with him, though! He's sensible, yes, but the trying to remain objective is opportunism of sorts, isn't it? Leaving all doors open, waiting to see which looks the most promising?

Yes that's true, it's just that it's so much easier to just latch onto someone else's suspicion, at least if you do it well enough not to get caught. I'm actually not sure if I've ever played with Rune Son of Fenrir though, so I don't presume to know what he'd do as a wolf.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

At least one of those people pushing my lynch is a wolf. That much is clear. If I survive I'll look at them carefully, especially those who were trying to pull the psychology trick of saying that I'm to be lynched for ABC reasons without saying it outright, or concluding that I'm not suspicious enough.

I'm pretty sure that they (or we, if it please you ) will be looked at hard enough even if you die if you turn out innocent.

[A Little Green]

Nah. Don't want to leave it 'til the last minute flurry..

++ Lottie

It isn't much, but it's the best lead I have.


EDIT: x-ed with Lottie, Runne and Agan

[Galadriel55]

It seems this particular Ranger is a popular choice. Not that it would do you any good to lynch me, as you're like to find out if you do.

Edit: xed since Shasta

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

if Pitchmod prefers the red persuasion.

He does indeed, in every possible sense of the word. Kidding aside, I think I said so in the Admin thread - makes it easier to count votes for my old short-sighted eyes.

EDIT: Rune, highlight, please.

[Nogrod]

I haven't read all and it seems I have no time to do so (ten minutes left) so based on what I've read thus far I'm thinking of declining from voting toDay - a second time in my life of these games, I think.

I'm very sorry but it feels like really bad to vote someone without reading the thread first, on D1 with no ideas from previous Days.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

It seems this particular Ranger is a popular choice. Not that it would do you any good to lynch me, as you're like to find out if you do.

Gal, what are you?

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

He does indeed, in every possible sense of the word. Kidding aside, I think I said so in the Admin thread - makes it easier to count votes for my old short-sighted eyes.

[Bom Tombadillo]

*sigh* I'm a bit lost now and without enough time to do a thorough reread, but . . .

++Rune Son of Bjarne

I dunno. He might be genuine, but attacking me specifically for lack of content just seems odd to me.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since G55's last post.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Gal, what are you?

Galadriel55, Galadriel, Gal, Gal55, Galadriwolf, Galwolfriel, Wolf55, Nilpadriel, Galwurstiel, the lad lass, you there with a 55, probably something else as well...

[Inziladun]

I hate these Day 1 decisions.

I also hate making long lists, so I'm just noting what jumps out at me.

Like I said, Agan and Boro are off the table toDay.

I can see the merits of the G55 suspicion, though I also agree with Greenie that G55 has been a frequent target for the baddies to lynch. I might vote for her, though it seems too easy somehow.

Bom is being a bit more cagey than his usual self, I think, but it could be a time issue. I haven't been here myself toDay as much as I'd like. Like G55, he tends to garner quite a bit of lynching attention as a rule, but even more so. I don't think I'd want to go for him toDay, with the lack of anything else from him to go on.

I'm rather comfortable with Greenie.

I haven't seen nearly enough from Nog to have an opinion.
Same for Glirdy.

Lottie seems innocuous, and I can't really fault her for the G55 suspicion, though as I said a G55 lynch could be a worthy BN (Beastly Nosebag) endeavour.

Shasta is as enigmatic as ever to me. It usually takes time for me to get a handle on him.

Sally has been popping in and out, but I'm really hard-pressed to recall anything in particular she's said. Could be voteworthy as a submarine.

Rune? Eh, what I've seen looks all right.

x/d with all since #93.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

++Rune Son of Bjarne

I dunno. He might be genuine, but attacking me specifically for lack of content just seems odd to me.

Yeah, because that's not suspicious....


EDIT: x'd since the post I quoted

[Aganzir]

Boro - none
Shasta - G55
Lottie - G55 2 (xed with Shasta)
Rune - Bom
Greenie - Lottie (xed with Lottie & Rune)
Nog - none
Bom - Rune

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

*sigh* I'm a bit lost now and without enough time to do a thorough reread, but . . .

++Rune Son of Bjarne

I dunno. He might be genuine, but attacking me specifically for lack of content just seems odd to me.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since G55's last post.

Not you specifically, at least not only you. I think the same can be said about Sally, the way you did it just annoyed me more.

I do think there is an argument to vote Galadriel, it is just not strong enough to convince me that it would be more beneficial than to get rid of people who does not seem to take the game seriously.

[satansaloser2005]

Bom or Galadriel. Opinions?


EDIT: x'd with Rune

[Nogrod]

But on the top discussion of toDay (what I read of it), I'm inclined to think both Agan & Boro innocent. Boro the more so - not so much because of his explanation the length of which actully is the only thing making me wonder, but because of his open offer to jump himself into the middle of discussion with his stuff on Agan. It just looks like very bad policy from a BN but reasonable spirit from an ordo.

[A Little Green]

Where is everybody?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally

Bom or Galadriel. Opinions?

Both probably innocent if you ask me, but Gal contributes more, so I'd say Bom.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I can see the merits of the G55 suspicion, though I also agree with Greenie that G55 has been a frequent target for the baddies to lynch. I might vote for her, though it seems too easy somehow.

I feel your pain.

I'm really liking Inzil. I know it might be a mistake, but he looks fairly good to me at the moment (you know they say he looks like me, eheh when will I get tired of this joke?)

I don't like Bom, but then again I never do. Gal still seems like my best bet.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Where is everybody?

Here.

[Aganzir]

++Galadriel

Suspiciousness over inactivity this time around.

edit: highlights! Sorry!